Is water Baptism essential for salvation?

Dave-W

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Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them,
OK - where does this text that you quoted say the fault was?

NOT with "it" (the covenant) but with "them." (the people who did not keep it)
 
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StevenBelievin

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OK - where does this text that you quoted say the fault was?

NOT with "it" (the covenant) but with "them." (the people who did not keep it)

Ok, that's a deflection. It doesn't matter who's at fault. The text says the covenant was not without fault, meaning it was faulty. Yes it's because they couldn't keep the law, but the text still says the covenant wasn't without fault.


Do you believe that Jewish people can be saved through the first (Mosaic) covenant without accepting Christ?
 
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Galilee63

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The Mission of John the Baptist
(Isaiah 40:1-5; Mark 1:1-8; Luke 3:1-20; John 1:19-28)

1In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea 2and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:

“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,

‘Prepare the way for the Lord,

make straight paths for Him.’”a

4John wore a garment of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 5People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region around the Jordan. 6Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

7But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit worthy of repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11I baptize you withb water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The Baptism of Jesus
(Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:29-34)

13At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”

15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him.

16As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened,c and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him. 17And a voice from heaven said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”
 
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Galilee63

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Gods Holy Covenant and Holy Word is not faulty nor wrong, Gods Holy Scriptures of His are never wrong nor faulty in The Holy Spirit of Truth. God our Holy Divine Majesty's Holy Truth both in His Old Testament and New Testament and Old and New Covenant are correct in Him and by Him.
 
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Albion

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Gods Holy Covenant and Holy Word is not faulty nor wrong, Gods Holy Scriptures of His are never wrong nor faulty in The Holy Spirit of Truth. God our Holy Divine Majesty's Holy Truth both in His Old Testament and New Testament and Old and New Covenant are correct in Him and by Him.
In other words, you believe the Bible.

See how easy that was?
 
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Dave-W

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Do you believe that Jewish people can be saved through the first (Mosaic) covenant without accepting Christ?
At this point in time? No.
Before the cross? Yes.

But please tell me how this is on-topic with baptism.
 
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Archivist

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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us....

Jesus and the Word are the same.

But the earlier statement was that the Bible is the source of the Truth. That is wrong. The Bible only tells us of the Truth. It is Jesus who is the source of the Truth. John 14:6: Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life." Jesus is the Word. Jesus is not the Bible. Jesus was before the Bible. Jesus will be after the Bible.

Just because men practice some thing does not make it true. Most of what is practiced is false. All the contradictions that exist prove most do not have the truth.

In other words, you have the Truth, and anyone who disagrees with you does not have the Truth.

Peter was preaching to adults accountable for their sins and who could understand spoken language and had the mental ability to believe. This is not rue of infants.

The phrase "you and your children.." children refers to descendants, future generations.

Of course you are entitled to your interpretation of scripture. But this is just interpretation. Most Christians practice infant baptism and would disagree with you.

The ORDER of the verse puts "believeth" first BEFORE baptism.

If the instructions say "Open the can and empty the contents" the logical order of the instructions is 'open' is put BEFORE 'empty'. One would have to work hard at not understanding this simple instruction. Are you telling me, or willing to admit, that since the instructions do not say "open FIRST and THEN empty" you would be trying to empty the can before opening it?

Logical fallacy as you cannot empty a can without opening it.

If I were to say that if you don't drive or fly then to get to Chicago you have to take a train and a bus, that does not in any way imply which you would take first. "He that believes and is baptized" likewise dose not imply that one must believe before being baptized.

Of course you are entitled to your interpretation of scripture. But this is just interpretation. Most Christians practice infant baptism and would disagree with you.

Psa 51 says nothing about infants being born sinners. Psa 58:3 says they "go astray" which shows personal culpability and not how one was passively born against his will

Of course you are entitled to your interpretation of scripture. But this is just interpretation. Most Christians practice infant baptism and would disagree with you.

Psa 51 speaks of conception. Psalms 58:3 speaks of birth. Conception and birth are 2 distinct points separated by about 9 months. So if original sin were true, when does one become a sinner? At conception? At birth? In one becomes a sinner at conception he cannot become a sinner at birth for he already is a sinner. If one does not become a sinner until birth, then he is not a sinner at conception.

Of course you are entitled to your interpretation of scripture. But this is just interpretation. Most Christians practice infant baptism and would disagree with you.
 
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Archivist

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No one is perfectly sinless, therefore God allowed a second avenue of forgiveness for the Christian in repenting, Acts 8:22.

Just a few posts ago you said that babies were sinless. Now you are saying that no one is sinless.

Which is it?
 
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-57

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And grace without water dunking, splashing, cloth soaking, or sprinkling.
I'm surprised misting is not common.

Outdoor-Misting-Fan.jpg

Doesn't the Bible say the kingdom is in our mist?
 
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-57

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No one is perfectly sinless, therefore God allowed a second avenue of forgiveness for the Christian in repenting, Acts 8:22.

I hope for your/our sake God allows a third, fourth, fifth...etc avenue.
The idea that man can only have faith if God gives it to him is to be rejected for it puts fault, culpability upon God when He has none. It shifts the accountability and responsibility God gave to man back onto God. Man has been commanded to believe thereby the command puts accountability and responsibility upon man to believe. It would be pointless and senseless to command man to believe if he could not. The question here is are you going to dig the hole you are already in even deeper.

One can instantly see your "feel good" or "feel right" gospel has many holes.

You still didn't answer the question....what gave you the ability to believe? Your superior intelligence? Your location of birth? You had a great youth leader? What?
 
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-57

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I asked Show me one example under the NT gospel were one was saved by doing nothing thereby saved by DISobeying the will of God. BU you have yet to show one, instead you make a very incredible statement when you post....

I said EVERY INSTANCE OF SALVATION. Did you forget?

I did notice you seem to try to earn, merit, your salvation. BTW, are you a JW?
 
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PropheticTimes

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1 Corinthians 12:3 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is LORD," except by the Holy Spirit.

I have not been baptized with water.
I confess Jesus is Lord and Savior, the only begotten Son of God.
My confession shows that the Holy Spirit indwells me, according to 1 Corinthians 12:3.
The Holy Spirit indwells me, therefore I am a child of the Living God.
Water baptism IS NOT a requirement for salvation.

"I see more Pharisees among Christians than there were around Pilate." - Margaret of Cortona
 
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Dave-W

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Albion

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I have not been baptized with water.
I confess Jesus is Lord and Savior, the only begotten Son of God.
My confession shows that the Holy Spirit indwells me, according to 1 Corinthians 12:3.
The Holy Spirit indwells me, therefore I am a child of the Living God.
Water baptism IS NOT a requirement for salvation.
But here's the issue that is often missed in these kinds of debates--

Baptism is not absolutely essential to salvation. Any of the major denominations that practice and value baptism will admit to that. There are exceptions caused by unusual and unavoidable circumstances.

But neither does this mean that any believer does right to purposely, intentionally, avoid Baptism.
 
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