Peace Deal or Confirm a Covenant?

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I did answer your question.

I said... "I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13."

That would mean... Daniel 7:22 onward and Revelation 16:14 onward is where we are headed prophetically.

I think Daniel 7:26 and Revelation 17&18 refers to the end of the reign of the Popes.

No, you did not answer the question. I did not ask where do you think we are currently. I asked where do you think we are HEADED prophetically?

 

[Yahchristian]

No, you did not answer the question. I did not ask where do you think we are currently. I asked where do you think we are HEADED prophetically?

If I said... "I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13."

Wouldn't that mean... Daniel 7:22 onward and Revelation 16:14 onward is where we are headed prophetically?

 

[Douggg]

If I said... "I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13."

Wouldn't that mean... Daniel 7:22 onward and Revelation 16:14 onward is where we are headed prophetically?

Revelation 16:13? The 6 bowls, vials, of God's wrath poured out already? No, not even.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

If I said... "I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13."

Wouldn't that mean... Daniel 7:22 onward and Revelation 16:14 onward is where we are headed prophetically?

circular evasion.

 

[Yahchristian]

circular evasion.

I said... "Daniel 7:22 onward and Revelation 16:14 onward is where we are headed prophetically."

And I said... "I think Daniel 7:26 and Revelation 17&18 refers to the end of the reign of the Popes."

I will also say... I believe at the "Second Coming", Jesus will reign physically on Earth for 1,000 years.

Below is a chart that represents my basic view of prophecy.

I am not sure what you are wanting...

Are you asking me to provide the script for the next Left Behind movie?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Are you asking me to provide the script for the next Left Behind movie?

No, but, now that you mention that very tame piece of work, it has more detail than what you are teaching here.

 

[Yahchristian]

I am what would be called a futurist, and I don't think that purpose for prophecy is to be able to predict the future, but to be one of the ways for God to reveal Himself as God, with us looking back at events happening exactly as God said they would.

You are an exception then, because this is a typical Futurist...

No, but, now that you mention that very tame piece of work, it has more detail than what you are teaching here.

Detail??? All we have is what is written in the Bible.

Futurists think prophecy was given so that they can predict the future, so much so that they can make movies of what exactly will take place.

Actually, prophecy was given so that our faith would be encouraged after it happens...

John 13:19... Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Detail??? All we have is what is written in the Bible.

Futurists think prophecy was given so that they can predict the future, so much so that they can make movies of what exactly will take place.

Actually, prophecy was given so that our faith would be encouraged after it happens...

John 13:19... Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

What??? Prophecy IS a prediction of the future!

 

[HenryM]

What??? Prophecy IS a prediction of the future!

Yes, prophecy is about the future, but the main purpose, as I see it, is not for us to understand exactly how and when will prophecy be fulfilled, but to understand God's glory even more after it's fulfilled, when looking back we see it happened just like God said it will.

At the same time, since prophecy is given, we can work on figuring out some truths about the prophecy beforehand. Jesus did told us to watch, He did gave us the signs, He did bless everybody who read Revelation, God did said that when end time comes wise will understand the prophecy (which, by the way, I don't think it means to understand fully, but understand enough to not be in the dark).

So, in my view, it's good to try to figure out how and when will end time unfold, just that we be humble about it, and understand that we probably cannot figure it out to some great extent.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, prophecy is about the future, but the main purpose, as I see it, is not for us to understand exactly how and when will prophecy be fulfilled, but to understand God's glory even more after it's fulfilled, when looking back we see it happened just like God said it will.

But prophecy is not a "prediction", but a certainty. And looking back after it has happened - is not an act of faith. We have plenty of fulfilled prophecies in the Tanach. old testament, to know that we can believe God regarding those things He said are to come.

So, in my view, it's good to try to figure out how and when will end time unfold, just that we be humble about it, and understand that we probably cannot figure it out to some great extent.

I disagree, we can understand the end time prophecies to a great extent, to have a start to finish end times scenario. We have enough information given to know that first event, and that is the appearance, manifestation of the ten leaders (kings) of Daniel 7 in their kingdom. And we can know when - sometime before the end of 2030.

 

[HenryM]

You are an exception then, because this is a typical Futurist...

Maybe I am, I don't know. But placing certain prophecy in future or in the past relative to the now doesn't correlate to one's understanding of what is the purpose of prophecy. Although it can be a nudging factor, I agree. I'm saying it's not the best idea to make sweeping statements.

 

[HenryM]

But prophecy is not a "prediction", but a certainty. And looking back after it has happened - is not an act of faith.

I didn't say it's prediction, nor that looking back is an act of faith.

I disagree, we can understand the end time prophecies to a great extent, to have a start to finish end times scenario. We have enough information given to know that first event, and that is the appearance, manifestation of the ten leaders (kings) of Daniel 7 in their kingdom. And we can know when - sometime before the end of 2030.

Maybe it's debatable what's great extent. I certainly think some will or already do understand it good enough to not be in the dark.

At the same time, I would guess that if you were to live as Israeli in the Old Testament era, you probably wouldn't see Messiah's two comings separated by thousands of years, although there are many prophecies about Messiah in the Old Testament. Not only that, there's good probability you would see them as one coming, not two, since there are enough passages that provide that narrative.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

But prophecy is not a "prediction", but a certainty. And looking back after it has happened - is not an act of faith. We have plenty of fulfilled prophecies in the Tanach. old testament, to know that we can believe God regarding those things He said are to come.

Since we know that Our Father knows the end from the beginning, we can trust prophecy to unfold just as He said it would. You may not call it prediction, but, it IS a revealing of the plans our Father has for this world, and for humanity. Remember Daniel went on his 21 day fast after reading the prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10 which reveal that Israel would be gathered back into the land after 70 years of Babylonian captivity. Because he knew the time was nearly finished, and he was armed with the prophecy of what was to happen, he was able to petition Our Father, confessing his sin and the sin of the nation, and receiving the prophecy of the 70 weeks. So, imho, the study of prophecy can bring enlightenment to the Church of things to come.

I agree that looking backwards is not acting in faith, but, it does confirm what prophecy has said. That being said, I think that we should look at prophecy as forewarning/forecast of things to come. If we watch a weather report that tells us it is going to rain tomorrow, it would be silly to leave the house without your umbrella.

 

[James Honigman]

A question asked on another thread. Here it is. From Lil Shepherd Boy.
"But let me ask you this. From reading your last few posts, are you saying you're skeptical of this peace deal falling through because you don't think Trump is the a/c and the a/c is the one who will make the peace deal happen?"

Hi Lil Shepherd Boy. To answer your question, let us examine what scripture says.

Dan. 9: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I started this thread to invite the participation of others, and I did not want to hijack the other thread with a whole lot of debate. So, imho the AC is the he in this verse. the reason I say that President Trump will not be able to broker the peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians is I believe the person that brokers the peace between Israel and the Palestinians will be the AC and I do NOT believe President Trump is the AC.

"Peace, peace, peace, there will be no peace." President Trump will fair no better than anyone who has come before him. The peace is shattered when Satan arrives to deceive the world. Moreover, the Palestinian conflict is only one part of the end time chaos we are watching. The greater part is Israel surrounded by her enemies, just as our Father and the Lord told us. What we identify as the Arab world against Western Civilization is truly an ancient Problem. Ishmael and Isaac will never get along. Sarah and Hagar hated each other, and they still do. Did not mean to intrude, just some thoughts.

 

[keras]

Below is a chart that represents my basic view of prophecy.

You have absolutely no mandate for making the 2300 evenings and mornings and the 1260 days into years. The one place in Bible prophecy where this is done, Ezekiel 4:4-6, it is specifically written to convert a day into an year. To do it elsewhere, just results in confusion.

Re the peace treaty of Daniel 9:27a, this a quite different thing to the Covenant that the new nation of Beulah will make with God. Jeremiah 31:31-34
The seven year peace treaty that the leader of the One World Govt will make with Beulah, will be soon after the massive defeat of the Gog/Magog army, but any agreement with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 7:23, is a violation of the Covenant with God, Daniel 11:32 and will be a treaty of death. Isaiah 28:14-15

 

[Yahchristian]

You have absolutely no mandate for making the 2300 evenings and mornings and the 1260 days into years. The one place in Bible prophecy where this is done, Ezekiel 4:4-6, it is specifically written to convert a day into an year. To do it elsewhere, just results in confusion.

Re the peace treaty of Daniel 9:27a, this a quite different thing to the Covenant that the new nation of Beulah will make with God. Jeremiah 31:31-34
The seven year peace treaty that the leader of the One World Govt will make with Beulah, will be soon after the massive defeat of the Gog/Magog army, but any agreement with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 7:23, is a violation of the Covenant with God, Daniel 11:32 and will be a treaty of death. Isaiah 28:14-15

I believe the "week" in Daniel 9:27 refers to 7 years (not 7 days).

Do you think the "week" in Daniel 9:27 refers to 7 days?

If not, what "mandate" do you have to think it refers to 7 years?

Daniel 9:27... And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "mandate" to interpret the prophetic "week" of Daniel 9:27 as 7 years is the same "mandate" to interpret a prophetic "day" as 1 year, a prophetic "month" as 30 years, and a prophetic "time" as 360 years.

That is what the Reformers thought, and I agree.

 

[Yahchristian]

What??? Prophecy IS a prediction of the future!

Prophecy is a foretelling of the future. Our attempt to interpret that prophecy is a prediction of the future.

Take Daniel 7:5 for example...

"And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh."

That prophecy was foretelling the future in a symbolic way.

But if Nebuchadnezzar had said... "I know, the next empire is represented by a bear, and since a bear is the symbol for Russia, the Russians must be going to take over my empire."

That would be an attempt to predict the future. And it would have been false.

I will start another thread and give you a chance to post the Pretribber predictions that have come true. And I will post a few that have not.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

That would be an attempt to predict the future. And it would have been false.

Not necessarily. That is an endtime prophecy.

 

[keras]

I believe the "week" in Daniel 9:27 refers to 7 years (not 7 days).

Do you think the "week" in Daniel 9:27 refers to 7 days?

'week' is a translators way of putting the 'one of the seven years' - as it is in a direct literal translation.
We are told they are groups of seven years in Daniel 9:24 So my mandate is the Bible.

Yon display a serious lack of Bible knowledge and yet you choose to have confrontational and derogatory attitude. This is not the proper way to discuss issues on a public forum.

 

[Douggg]

I believe the "week" in Daniel 9:27 refers to 7 years (not 7 days).

Do you think the "week" in Daniel 9:27 refers to 7 days?

If not, what "mandate" do you have to think it refers to 7 years?

Daniel 9:27... And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "mandate" to interpret the prophetic "week" of Daniel 9:27 as 7 years is the same "mandate" to interpret a prophetic "day" as 1 year, a prophetic "month" as 30 years, and a prophetic "time" as 360 years.

That is what the Reformers thought, and I agree.

Yahchristian, I understand your point. But as Keras has already pointed out, it is 70 groups of 7 years. I think the word is heptad.

But there is also the matter that the 1260 days cannot be 1260 years because in Revelation 11:3, the two witnesses testify for 1260 days - then after they are killed, lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days. Therefore, since it is irrational to think that the two witnesses lay dead in the street for 3 1/2 years... that would mean the 1260 days are literal days.