Seriously, only one other person has answers to these questions...

[Yahchristian]

the beginning of the the 69 weeks is given specifically in Daniel, from the order to go out and rebuild Jerusalem and its walls until Messiah the prince is 69 weeks. The year 444 BC and the rebuilding of Jerusalem was ordered by Artexeres in regard to Nehemiah's plea for Jerusalem. The scope of Daniel 9 has 6 specific objectives for the 70 weeks.
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[ sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

the 69 th week came when Jesus road in the foal of donkey on palm sunday. Jesus said about that day if you had know this thy day of thy visitation, but they who were calling out Hosanna would soon by crying out to release Barabas. The part about Messiah being cut off and the city and sanctuary destroyed are an addendum to the 69th week and neither part of the 69th or 70th week. The Lord came exactly 69 7's from the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the Lord was cut off not for himselff and the city was then destroyed with the sanctuary in 70AD. The 70th week begins when the prince who shall come confirms a covenant with the many for one week or 7 years. In the middle of the 70th week it says of this prince who is of the people who would destroy Jerusalem that he will bring an end to the sacrifice. In Rev we see this is where the dragon gives power to teh beast and the beast survives a mortal would and commits the abomination of desolation in the temple. He then requires the mark of the beast and the false prophet gives life to the image of the beast and all must worship the image or die.

This is all future with a great deal of evidence screaming like Noah" giant ark before the flood that this day is coming. Israel is a nation again and Jerusalem is the center of global religious and political crisis. The worlds religions are uniting as are the governments to form a single authority. The Temple Institute has prepared everything necessary for the resumption of the daily sacrifices not done since 70AD. Hosea 3 says this 4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

You see it has been many days without a sacrifice and Israel has not had a king since Babylon. The return of the sacrifice is linked in Hose to the return of David and Israel seeking the Lord and it is a latter day prophecy. It has been many days with out a sacrifice and many more without a king. The 70th week covenant will soon be formed and Israel will get the return of the sacrifice and in the middle of this week is when the abomination of desolation will take place. The very specifics to support this view are all lined up and on the stage now. The replacement theology that God is done with Israel ignores the obvious literal nature that is witness to the prophecy being literal not allegory.

Thank you for giving a date for one of the events. Are you able to give dates for any of the other events so that they fit with your view of prophecy...

When was Jesus born?
Yahchristian: Fall of 5 BC
Brian Mcnamee: ???

When was Jesus baptized?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
Brian Mcnamee: ???

When was Jesus crucified?
Yahchristian: Spring of 30 AD
Brian Mcnamee: ???

When was the start of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 458 BC
Brian Mcnamee: 444 BC

When was the end of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
Brian Mcnamee: ???

P.S. Most Pretribulationist authors quote Sir Robert Anderson's dates of March 14, 445 BC for the beginning of the first 69 weeks, and April 6, 32 AD for the end of the first 69 weeks.

 

[Yahchristian]

The scope of Daniel 9 has 6 specific objectives for the 70 weeks.
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[ sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

I totally agree!

Those six objectives were accomplished during the seventy weeks (in the middle of the 70th week).

Whereas Pretribulationists believe those six things are not accomplished during the seventy weeks...

The part about Messiah being cut off and the city and sanctuary destroyed are an addendum to the 69th week and neither part of the 69th or 70th week.

 

[keras]

YahChrisian, you keep on about the date of the decree that commenced the 69 'weeks'. Why can't you accept the simple answer that it was exactly 483 years before Jesus' Crucifixion? As another poster says; the actual date is irrelevant.
And as for the date of Jesus' baptism, that was 29.5 AD, as the references Luke 3:1-2 attest. The 3 year co-regency of Tiberius and Augustus is a red herring and is cited to make the dates fit another agenda.
Tiberius: Emperor of Rome; 14-37 AD....14 + 15 = 29
Pilate: Prefect of Judea: 26-36 AD
Philip: Tetrarch of Ituraca, 4BC to 34 AD
Lysanias: Prince of Abilene; 14-29 AD
Caiphas: High Priest; 18-36 AD

I have posted the timeline that proves the 29.5 AD date for the commencement of Jesus' Ministry. That date is exactly 2000 years since Abraham left Ur, and 4000 years since Adam.

 

[keras]

Those six objectives were accomplished during the seventy weeks (in the middle of the 70th week).

Quite plainly the prophecy of Daniel 9:24 is not yet fulfilled. We await the 70th 'week'.

 

[Yahchristian]

Quite plainly the prophecy of Daniel 9:24 is not yet fulfilled. We await the 70th 'week'.

You are demonstrating a big difference between Dispensationalists and other Christians.

Dispensationalists think the Jews do something in the future... "to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy." (Daniel 9:24)

Other Christians think Jesus did something at Calvary... "to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy." (Daniel 9:24)

For example, Dispensationalists think "the most holy" refers to a future rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, whereas other Christians think "the most holy" refers to Jesus ("the Holy One of God", Mark 1:24).

 

[keras]

You are demonstrating a big difference between Dispensationalists and other Christians.

Dispensationalists think the Jews do something in the future... "to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy." (Daniel 9:24)

Other Christians think Jesus did something at Calvary... "to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy." (Daniel 9:24)

None of Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled. And it isn't ethnic Jews who are referred to as Daniels people, but ALL whose names are entered into the Book. Daniel 12:1b

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Thank you for giving a date for one of the events. Are you able to give dates for any of the other events so that they fit with your view of prophecy...

When was Jesus born?
Yahchristian: Fall of 5 BC
Brian Mcnamee: ???

When was Jesus baptized?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
Brian Mcnamee: ???

When was Jesus crucified?
Yahchristian: Spring of 30 AD
Brian Mcnamee: ???

When was the start of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 458 BC
Brian Mcnamee: 444 BC

When was the end of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
Brian Mcnamee: ???

P.S. Most Pretribulationist authors quote Sir Robert Anderson's dates of March 14, 445 BC for the beginning of the first 69 weeks, and April 6, 32 AD for the end of the first 69 weeks.

I chose just the two dates as the text of Daniel was specific that the beginning of the 69 weeks was tied to the order to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls and that year the order went out was given to Nehemiah the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday when Jesus came in riding in triumphantly. I take messiah the prince being cut off not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come destroying the city and the sanctuary as an addendum to the 69th week so it can be identified as having been fulfilled. I have not studied these dates you want to discuss in a long time and find that these are not critical to understanding the scriptures accept perhaps the feast days that Jesus fulfilled by being offered on Passover. put in the grave on the feast of unleavened bread and raised on the feast of 1st Fruits. As I faintly remember there was only one year in the Christ would have lived that had these days line up so that would be the dates I would choose. Im really not wanting to get into this much.

 

[jeffinjapan]

It seems that people who participate on this forum have strong opinions about eschatology. I am surprised more of you have not figured out these basic dates so that they fit with your eschatological view...

When was Jesus born?
Yahchristian: Fall of 5 BC
keras: 5 BC

When was Jesus baptized?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
keras: Mid 29 AD

When was Jesus crucified?
Yahchristian: Spring of 30 AD
keras: April 3, 33 AD

When was the start of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 458 BC
keras: ???

When was the end of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
keras: ???

P.S. According to my dates, the first 69 weeks lasted 483 years (69 * 7), and Jesus was 30 when he was baptized and 33 1/2 when he was crucified.

Oooooook...

 

[BABerean2]

None of Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled.

Act 10:38　 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.　



Heb 10:16　 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"　
Heb 10:17　 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."　
Heb 10:18　 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.　



Daniel 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

.

 

[keras]

Heb 10:16　 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"　
Heb 10:17　 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."　
Heb 10:18　 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.　

This is the Covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord.....
Not happened yet! Jeremiah 33:31-34 obviously awaits fulfilment.

 

[BABerean2]

This is the Covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord.....
Not happened yet! Jeremiah 33:31-34 obviously awaits fulfilment.

It is found fulfilled word-for-word in Hebrews 8:6-13, with the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 bracketed by verses making it clear that Christ fulfilled it during the first century.

.

 

[Yahchristian]

Why can't you accept the simple answer that it was exactly 483 years before Jesus' Crucifixion?

Various Bible "scholars" have promoted different views of prophecy, and we have to decide who we think is correct.

One way we can discern which of them is correct (if any) is to check to see if their view of prophecy fits with historical dates.

There have only been three dates suggested for the start of the first 69 weeks (539/538 BC, 458/457 BC, and 445/444 BC), and only two events suggested to mark the end of the first 69 weeks (Jesus' baptism and Jesus' crucifixion).

We can discern which views of prophecy cannot be correct if the dates simply do not work.

In other words, if "483 years before Jesus' Crucifixion" doesn't bring us to either 539/538 BC, 458/457 BC, or 445/444 BC... then I know that view of prophecy is incorrect.

So to prove to us that your view of prophecy has any chance of being correct...

Please provide the year for the start of the first 69 weeks and the year of Jesus' crucifixion that fits with your view that "the first 69 weeks starts 483 years before Jesus' Crucifixion".


P.S. I believe the first 69 weeks started in 458 BC and ended 483 years later at Jesus' baptism in 26 AD.

 

[keras]

It is found fulfilled word-for-word in Hebrews 8:6-13, with the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 bracketed by verses making it clear that Christ fulfilled it during the first century.

The New Covenant is repeated in Hebrews, but remains unfulfilled.
Has God's Laws been written on our hearts yet? How come many still break them?
Has all our sins been pardoned yet? Some are still committing them!
Does everyone high and low alike; 'know the Lord'?

 

[keras]

I believe the first 69 weeks started in 458 BC and ended 483 years later at Jesus' baptism in 26 AD.

The 483 years ended when the Messiah was 'cut off', at Jesus' Crucifixion. Daniel 9:26
I see you insist on the error of subtraction of one year at the BC/AD change.
Your calculation: 458 BC + 26 AD - 1 = 483 years
The correct calculation is: 448 BC + 33 AD + 2 = 483 actual elapsed years. So your date is 10 years too early.

 

[Yahchristian]

I make it 458 BC too. 483 -33 +2 = 458 Voila!

The correct calculation is: 448 BC + 33 AD + 2 = 483 actual elapsed years.

Can you clarify...

Do you agree with me that Daniel's 70 weeks started in 458 BC? (as your 1st post suggests)

Or do you think Daniel's 70 weeks started in 448 BC? (as your 2nd post suggests)


P.S.

I believe the first 69 weeks started in 458 BC and ended 483 years later at Jesus' baptism in 26 AD.

 

[jgr]

The New Covenant is repeated in Hebrews, but remains unfulfilled.
Has God's Laws been written on our hearts yet? How come many still break them?
Has all our sins been pardoned yet? Some are still committing them!
Does everyone high and low alike; 'know the Lord'?

You seem to forget that a covenant is a bi-directional relationship. It takes "two to covenant." Christ has accomplished everything necessary to fulfill the New Covenant and make it a reality in the lives of those who choose to accept and live it by faith and obedience.

Thus, the New Covenant becomes reality in every individual who accepts and lives it by faith and obedience.
God's Laws are written on the heart of every individual who does likewise.
Every indivdual's sins are pardoned who does likewise.
Every individual high and low knows the Lord who does likewise.

And not only does God keep His end of the bargain; He also empowers us with all of His resources to enable us to keep ours.

 

[keras]

Can you clarify...

Do you agree with me that Daniel's 70 weeks started in 458 BC? (as your 1st post suggests)

Or do you think Daniel's 70 weeks started in 448 BC? (as your 2nd post suggests)

My humble apologies, my first calculation is plainly wrong. But the one in #54 is correct.

I have already proved from Luke 3:1-2 that Jesus' baptism was in 29 AD
I also made it clear that you should not add or subtract years at the BC/AD changeover. Just keep in mind that the years are counted at their commencement.
As for when that decree was promulgated - I don't care, its of little significance.

 

[keras]

You seem to forget that a covenant is a bi-directional relationship. It takes "two to covenant." Christ has accomplished everything necessary to fulfill the New Covenant and make it a reality in the lives of those who choose to accept and live it by faith and obedience.

Thus, the New Covenant becomes reality in every individual who accepts and lives it by faith and obedience.
God's Laws are written on the heart of every individual who does likewise.
Every indivdual's sins are pardoned who does likewise.
Every individual high and low knows the Lord who does likewise.

And not only does God keep His end of the bargain; He also empowers us with all of His resources to enable us to keep ours.

To a degree, your are right, but the prophesies tell of so much more that what we Christians do experience now. I await the great Day when He pours out His Spirit upon us: Ezekiel 37:14, Ezekiel 39:29, Isaiah 32:15, Joel 2:28-29, +

 

[Yahchristian]

The correct calculation is: 448 BC + 33 AD + 2 = 483 actual elapsed years.

Most Christians know that from any date in 448 BC to any date in 33 AD is between 479 and 481 years (not 483). Using a Date Duration Calculator you will see that from Dec 31, 448 BC to Jan 1, 33 AD is one day over 479 years, and from Jan 1, 448 BC to Dec 31, 33 AD is one day short of 481 years.


But keras, according to your calculations and your view that Daniel's 70 weeks started in 448 BC...

What event occurred inn 448 BC that would mark the beginning of Daniel's 70 weeks?


I ask because all the books I have read start Daniel's 70 weeks at either 605/604 BC (the first year of Nebuchadnezzar), 539/538 BC (the edict of Cyrus), 458/457 BC (the decree of Artaxerxes), or 445/444 BC (the warrant given to Nehemiah).

I personally believe the first 69 weeks started in 458 BC (the decree of Artaxerxes) and ended 483 years later at Jesus' baptism in 26 AD.

 

[Gideon]

Here are the dates posted so far. Can anyone else provide dates for these events that fit with your view of prophecy...

First of all, let me commend you for persevering with a question that many Bible Scholars dismiss (wrongly) as unimportant. As you say, it affects our understanding of eschatology.

Below are the dates shown in the chronological research published in 'THE ATONEMENT CLOCK.'

When was Jesus born?
Yahchristian: Fall of 5 BC
keras: 5 BC
BABarean2: 6-5 BC
Colter: August 21, 7 BC
Adstar: ???
A.clock: Fall of 5 BC

When was Jesus baptized?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
keras: Mid 29 AD
BABarean2: 26-27 AD
Colter: 26 AD
Adstar: ???
A.clock: Fall of 26 AD

When was Jesus crucified?
Yahchristian: Spring of 30 AD
keras: April 3, 33 AD
BABarean2: 30 AD
Colter: April 7, 30 AD
Adstar: 30 AD
A.clock: April 7, 30 AD

When was the start of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 458 BC
keras: ???
BABarean2: 457 BC
Colter: ???
Adstar: ???
A.clock: Mar 26, 457 BC

When was the end of the first 69 weeks?
Yahchristian: Fall of 26 AD
keras: ???
BABarean2: 26-27 AD
Colter: ???
Adstar: ???
A.clock: Mar 27, 27 AD

How long do the first 69 weeks last?
Yahchristian: 483 years
keras: ???
BABarean2: 482-483 years
Colter: ???
Adstar: ???
A.clock: 483 years

How old was Jesus when he was baptized?
Yahchristian: 30
keras: 33
BABarean2: 31
Colter: 32
Adstar: ???
A.clock: 30

How old was Jesus when he was crucified?
Yahchristian: 33 1/2
keras: 37
BABarean2: 34-35
Colter: 35 1/2
Adstar: ???
A.clock: 33 1/2