Peace Deal or Confirm a Covenant?

[BABerean2]

That means the New Covenant was only "confirmed" ("made understood") for 3 1/2 years, according to your view.

Not 7 years.

That is not what I believe. I believe the New Covenant was preached to the Jews for 7 years before it was taken to the Gentiles.

When did that preaching begin according to Jesus?

Luk_16:16　 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.


The question we should ask is... How does the New Covenant connect to Daniel chapter 9, since Daniel 9 is about the New Covenant Messiah?

Dan 9:24　 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.　

"thy people" = Daniel's people, the Jews

"the holy city"= Jerusalem

"to seal up the vision and prophecy" = to finish the 70 weeks prophecy

Based on the above, how long was the Gospel preached to Daniel's people, the Jews, (confirming the covenant with many) during the first century, before it was taken to the Gentiles, based on Galatians 1:18?

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[Douggg]

That means the New Covenant was only "confirmed" ("made understood") for 3 1/2 years, according to your view.

Not 7 years.

You are completely amiss of what is my view.

My view is that the last week is not by Jesus. It is not confirming the new covenant at all.

My view is the person who will become the Antichrist, by being anointed the King of Israel - being the prince who shall come from the EU - following Gog/Magog is the one who will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for seven years - playing the role of the messiah (perceived to be by the Jews).

What you are not aware of, or are not getting, is that confirming the covenant (the Mt. Sinai) for 7 years has always been a requirement ever since Moses made it a law to do so. Also I don't think you understand what the act of confirming the covenant actually is - it is a big speech given to the nation of Israel.

Moses was the first to confirm the Mt. Sinai Covenant for 7years. After him, he made it a perpetual law that all future generations would likewise confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years, then 7 years later it would be confirmed again, then 7 years later it would be confirmed again.....perpectually, by the leadership of Israel to the people. (Deuteronomy 31:9-13).

What is being confirmed is that under the Mt. Sinai covenant, the land of Israel was given to the Children of Israel as theirs forever. It has nothing to do with the new covenant in Jesus. The new covenant in Jesus is for eternal life.... not a promise of the land of Israel.

The 7 years is right in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. The word "confirmed" is not there, but in essence that is what Moses did in his speech to the children of Israel, as they were about to cross over the Jordan, to possess the promised land.

The actual act forthcoming, the confirming of the covenant for 7 years, will be a big speech, the prince who shall come makes on the Temple Mount. He will be perceived by the Jews as being their messiah, and will be anointed the King of Israel - that's what officially makes the person the Antichrist.

In Revelation 6, he is the rider on the white horse (perceived messiah) who is given a crown - anointed the King of Israel, illegitimate, at the start of the 7 years.

 

[Douggg]

So you think the 69 weeks ends at Calvary. Correct?

When do you believe Jesus was crucified? What year?

P.S.

I think the 69 weeks ends at Jesus' baptism in the Fall of 26 AD, and I think Jesus was crucified in the Spring of 30 AD.

I don't have a calendar year because the calendar we now have has been manipulated by Pope Gregory (I think that is the one) to be a source for calculating Jesus's death or birth. If we were living back at the time of Jesus's first coming, and had enough information of when the command was first given to rebuild Jerusalem, we could verify, date wise - the 69 weeks.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Now, this answer makes a whole lot of sense to me. I never thought of the broker of the peace treaty/accord being the facilitator for the start of the 70th week. I hope I am understanding you correctly.

I understand much of this will be 20-20after it is in the rear view mirror and I am looking at prophecy like a jigsaw puzzle and have tried to identify all the verses that have not been fulfilled and then arrange them with the other verses that seem to be talking about the same events from the rest of the scriptures. In doing so you can see a timeline forming with specific events that are sure to come. Then we can look out and see the arc of history tracking towards the specific events. The scriptures reach that the law of the prophets has to be 100% accurate under penalty of death. Peter tells us that 19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed,[fn] which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,[fn] 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God[fn] spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. These two verses if you base your eschatology on them will lead you to be a futurist as so many integrated themes will have failed the law of the prophets otherwise.

So when we get to Daniel 9 the 70th week we see the promise of the prince to come who is of the people who destroyed the city Jerusalem and the sanctuary

These books being referenced are not in the canon for several reasons, the Book of Enoch is definitely Chaldean in origin—all of those nations shared their pre-flood origins and Enoch the closest thing you can get to Chaldean Kabbalah (which is also where the Talmud and Jewish Kabbalah originated). I wouldn't be surprised if the book itself was dictated by some Chaldean Oracle in a trance—the Rosicrucians identify Enoch with Hermes and Thoth (Greek and Egyptian patron-spirits of magic). The book is also one of the most important works for adherents of Western Mysticism, Rosicrusianism, Luciferianism, etc... Their ideology is very 'Christian' in nature, albeit it's completely Gnostic and they worship Lucifer and Jesus as the same being. The Rosicrucian's entire mission is to become 'sons of god' and build the New Jerusalem. It's the same spirit of Satan from the beginning—to ascend to the Most High and create an everlasting kingdom. So I do not hold the Book of Enoch to be authoritative in any way other than in the study of the wiles of my enemy.

It seems strange then for Jude to quote the book of Enoch line and verse in Jude if it is a demonic Luciferian origin as Jude is backing it up as a true prophecy. I do not equate Enoch on a par with scriptures but do know it was included in the dead sea scrolls. Often Christians use extra Biblical sources for historical background and I say the evidence for human demon hybrids is in the text, its in the archeology of the past and its in the prophetic future as well. The scriptures are the backbone of my argument and on all those points you have not disagreed.

 

[Yahchristian]

I don't have a calendar year because the calendar we now have has been manipulated by Pope Gregory (I think that is the one) to be a source for calculating Jesus's death or birth. If we were living back at the time of Jesus's first coming, and had enough information of when the command was first given to rebuild Jerusalem, we could verify, date wise - the 69 weeks.

So you have no idea when the 69 weeks started or ended.

@BABerean2 do you have any idea what year the 69 weeks started or ended?

P.S. I think the 69 weeks started in the Fall of 458 BC and ended in the Fall of 26 AD.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I say the evidence for human demon hybrids is in the text, its in the archeology of the past and its in the prophetic future as well.

My, I have been saying this on this forum for years. Very few agree.No one will even consider that the AC would be such a being. Thank you.

 

[Douggg]

So you have no idea when the 69 weeks started or ended.

I don't have any calendar date. I know when the messiah came into Jerusalem and I do know when the 69 weeks ended - it is when Jesus rode into Jerusalem riding a donkey, fulfilling Zechariah 9:9, and Daniel 9:25, hailed as the messiah by his followers. 4 days later he was crucified.

 

[Douggg]

Are you saying that your chart is an amalgamation of the Presentist View, the Historicist View, the Protestant View ?

 

[Douggg]

So you think the 69 weeks ends at Calvary. Correct?

Well, I am not trying to nail it down to the nearest hour, minute, second. The arrival of the messiah to Jerusalem and him being cutoff four days later, crucified, was at the end of the 69 weeks.

The text says after sixty two weeks the messiah would be cutoff. Since his arrival and being cutoff is only four days separation, both Daniel 9:25 and 9:26 are satisfied.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Yahchristian]

Are you saying that your chart is an amalgamation of the Presentist View, the Historicist View, the Protestant View ?

The Presentist View, the Historicist View, and the Protestant View are three different names for the same eschatological view. In the 1600's it was often called the Protestant View. In the 1800's it was often called the Presentist view, and now it is often called the Historicist View. Here is a chart that represents the view...

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

But some think Daniel 9, the purpose is leading up to and climaxed with the stoning of Stephen ! Well, it's not. It is about the Glorious Return of Jesus. And there are 7 years forthcoming leading up to it, which Revelation 6 thorugh 19 describe, given by Jesus Himself. And none of the apostles wrote anything about the stoning of Stephen being associated with the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years.

The events of Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 8, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, Daniel 12 - ALL END WITH THE GLORIOUS RETURN OF JESUS.

We have plenty of people who say Lord Jesus is not returning, has already returned, and we are already living in the millennium. I had never heard this preposterous idea that the new covenant climaxed at the stoning of Stephen. Where do these people think we are headed?

 

[Yahchristian]

We have plenty of people who say Lord Jesus is not returning, has already returned, and we are already living in the millennium. I had never heard this preposterous idea that the new covenant climaxed at the stoning of Stephen. Where do these people think we are headed?

I believe the New Covenant and the Old Covenant overlapped for 3 1/2 years (the last half of the 70th week), and the Old Covenant climaxed (vanished) around the time of the stoning of Stephen. The New Covenant has no ending.

Hebrews 8:13... In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I believe the New Covenant and the Old Covenant overlapped for 3 1/2 years (the last half of the 70th week), and the Old Covenant climaxed (vanished) around the time of the stoning of Stephen. The New Covenant has no ending.

Hebrews 8:13... In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So, my question IS, where do you think we are headed prophetically ?

 

[BABerean2]

What is being confirmed is that under the Mt. Sinai covenant, the land of Israel was given to the Children of Israel as theirs forever. It has nothing to do with the new covenant in Jesus. The new covenant in Jesus is for eternal life.... not a promise of the land of Israel.

Exo_18:23　 If you do this thing, and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all this people will also go to their place in peace."


Exo_23:22　 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.


Deu_19:9　 and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three,



Jer 31:32　 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.　

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[Douggg]

Exo_18:23　 If you do this thing, and God so commands you, then you will be able to endure, and all this people will also go to their place in peace."


Exo_23:22　 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.


Deu_19:9　 and if you keep all these commandments and do them, which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and to walk always in His ways, then you shall add three more cities for yourself besides these three,



Jer 31:32　 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.　

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So what is your point? That God did not give the land of Israel, to the children of Israel forever?

 

[Yahchristian]

So, my question IS, where do you think we are headed prophetically ?

Note: I will answer your question, but can you post your own answer to your question as well.


A big difference between Futurists and Historicists is that Futurists think the purpose of prophecy is for us to be able to predict the future, whereas Historicists think the purpose of prophecy is for our faith to be strengthened after we see the fulfillment of a prophecy.

John 13:19... Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

So for example, whereas Futurists are willing to make detailed movies and books of what happens next, Historicists are not.

So my answer to your question is... I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13. Here is a chart that represents the Historicist View of the Reformers that I tend to agree with...

 

[HenryM]

A big difference between Futurists and Historicists is that Futurists think the purpose of prophecy is for us to be able to predict the future, whereas Historicists think the purpose of prophecy is for our faith to be strengthened after we see the fulfillment of a prophecy.

This is I am not sure which wrong qualification I have seen you write in just a limited number of posts I have read from you. Your mocking long legged chart included.

I am what would be called a futurist, and I don't think that purpose for prophecy is to be able to predict the future, but to be one of the ways for God to reveal Himself as God, with us looking back at events happening exactly as God said they would.

 

[Yahchristian]

I am what would be called a futurist, and I don't think that purpose for prophecy is to be able to predict the future, but to be one of the ways for God to reveal Himself as God, with us looking back at events happening exactly as God said they would.

Then you are one of the exceptions in the Futurist camp.

Just go into your Christian bookstore and pick up any Pretribulationist book on prophecy and see if they try to predict the future.

I am a member of PureFlix. And many of their action movies are predictions of the future after the Rapture.


P.S.

Below is my chart that you referred to that shows the basic Futurist View. I made it 20 years ago so I have not yet updated the "ten horns" to the current 28 EU member states...

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Note: I will answer your question, but can you post your own answer to your question as well.


A big difference between Futurists and Historicists is that Futurists think the purpose of prophecy is for us to be able to predict the future, whereas Historicists think the purpose of prophecy is for our faith to be strengthened after we see the fulfillment of a prophecy.

John 13:19... Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

So for example, whereas Futurists are willing to make detailed movies and books of what happens next, Historicists are not.

So my answer to your question is... I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13. Here is a chart that represents the Historicist View of the Reformers that I tend to agree with...

My question was where do you think we are headed prophetically? You did not answer that. Stop being circular.

 

[Yahchristian]

My question was where do you think we are headed prophetically? You did not answer that. Stop being circular.

I did answer your question.

I said... "I think we are currently in the time of Daniel 7:21 and Revelation 16:13."

That would mean... Daniel 7:22 onward and Revelation 16:14 onward is where we are headed prophetically.

I think Daniel 7:26 and Revelation 17&18 refers to the end of the reign of the Popes.