The word is a separate entity from God?
One being in three persons; the Father is not the Son; the Son is not the Father, etc.
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The word is a separate entity from God?
According to Christian beliefs ref John 1:1 the word is Jesus pbuh. So when God speaks, Jesus pbuh does. For example God says, let the Earth be created, Jesus pbuh does the creating. Have I understood this correctly?
When John 1 talks about the word being with God. Is this the spoken word of God or a separate word?
No not the same at all. The 'word' in the Qur'an is a attribute of God, IT is something He uses to communicate with us humans. The word in John's understanding is a distinctly separate God:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
If the spoken word of the Father is a separate God, then is the spoken word of Jesus the man a god too, and what about Jesus the god, is his word a separate god too, then what of the Holy Spirit and his words.
Please explain.
So in your post 43 above, the word was having a personal relationship with God? I don't understand.
John says, He was with God. What does that mean?
When Jesus pbuh spoke in the NT, was God the Father speaking?
So in your post 43 above, the word was having a personal relationship with God? I don't understand.
John says, He was with God. What does that mean?
When Jesus pbuh spoke in the NT, was God the Father speaking?
So in your post 43 above, the word was having a personal relationship with God? I don't understand.
John says, He was with God. What does that mean?
When Jesus pbuh spoke in the NT, was God the Father speaking?
So in your post 43 above, the word was having a personal relationship with God? I don't understand.
John says, He was with God. What does that mean?
When Jesus pbuh spoke in the NT, was God the Father speaking?
Ok and the Son and HS were having a personal relationship with God?
So in your post 43 above, the word was having a personal relationship with God? I don't understand.
John says, He was with God. What does that mean?
When Jesus pbuh spoke in the NT, was God the Father speaking?
So in your post 43 above, the word was having a personal relationship with God? I don't understand.
John says, He was with God. What does that mean?
When Jesus pbuh spoke in the NT, was God the Father speaking?
God's Word is not a separate God.
Because the Spirit and Words are all part of one being. I'm not going to be in the U.K and my words start sounding in Canada. If my Spirit isn't in my body, then that's because my body has died. One being, but this is not how you understand the Word and Spirit, they are separate beings.
Could God do this? Yes He can do what He wishes as there's no limitations, but God doesn't do things that are not befitting his characteristics and majesty.
Right that's fine and makes sense. God is always 100% no matter where He is.
Now read the following passages from the Torah;
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Numbers 23:19
Jesus pbuh was a man, so not God.
"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." Malachi 3:6
God is always God, doesn't change. Jesus pbuh could not be God
Jesus pbuh taught:
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor 1:33
Your concept of the word becoming flesh is confusion and can't be explained.
Remember we agreed elsewhere on the following:
112:0 In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
112:1 Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD.
112:2 "The Absolute GOD.
112:3 "Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
112:4 "None equals Him."
Nothing like him, not born of a woman.
Jesus pbuh also didn't know the hour, nor did the Holy Spirit
So we are left with only The Father is 100% God, worthy of worship Alone.
God became a man, insulted his family, ignore his own Mother, begrudged having to heal people, called his Countrymen children of Satan, mocked his followers calling one of them Satan.
Is that befitting of GOD Almighty?
No sorry, Jesus pbuh was a man who made mistakes, then repented in prayer.
Jesus pbuh repented, he even taught his followers how to do it:
“When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. 3Give us each day our daily bread. 4And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.’”… Luke 11:1-4
Show me from the Torah then. Just 1 verse will do.
The context is not talking over each other to cause confusion, just let the Church leaders explain the Bible.
God doesn't cause confusion, rather peace, so keep it orderly in Church. Christians have been arguing over the Trinity ever since and this is my point. Following man made doctrines causes confusion
Yes and those children grow up and inevitably think for themselves. I think over 70% of college children leave not even believing in God. Why America’s ‘nones’ left religion behind
If the word became Jesus pbuh, then what is the word that God the Father spoke back in Heaven, is that another God?
so the word that became incarnate was not 100% God? The Holy Spirit too not knowing wasn't 100% God either then right? If all information wasn't given, then how much percentage wise is the 'word' and 'Holy Spirit' God? 50% 75% Let me know. I'm sure lots of Christian College children want to know as well.
That's what you should do, but in reality most of you ascribe partners unto Him.
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Jesus pbuh doesn't honour:
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
On his own Mother:
Mark 3:31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
and
John 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Woman! Who addresses their own Mother like that ever, let alone in a public gathering of friends, family and disciples?
Additionally, at Cana, his family are invited to a family wedding. How come we know very little about his brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces and nephews? Have they been edited out of the NT?
They watched him praying and asked him to teach them too:
Luke 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. 3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins;
He doesn't tell them not to worry, only believe in what he has come to do or anything like that. He teaches them to ask for forgiveness from God, just like he does in several places.
Where does Jesus ask God for forgiveness from His sins in several places?
I don't see Trinity. 3 distinct separate persons co equal and co eternal, who together make One God.
Someone on here who knows their Jewish Torah can offer their rebuttal, maybe post it in the Jewish section and I'll come along to see how well you do convincing the Jews.
I don't see Robert Morey debating any Jewish Scholar on this, likely because he knows they will correct him.
The end of John mentions, "Beloved Disciple": "This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true" (John 21:24). Note how the author differentiates between his source of information, "the disciple who testifies," and himself: "we know that his testimony is true." He/we: this author is not the disciple. He claims to have gotten some of his information from the disciple.
We don't know who the 'we' are, and I was told John had a scribe to write his Gospel. This doesn't make sense. Why not write, I as his trusted Scribe and disciple, St. Prochorus
know his testimony is true?
There's nothing in Matthew 28:20 about having full knowledge or being God.
The Synoptics knew nothing about the incarnation either. I keep asking, where is the pre existing Jesus pbuh in Mark, Luke or Matthew??
Thanks for explaining the sword issue, but the issue was, is Jesus pbuh God manifest? I've shown he was a man who made mistakes and asked for forgiveness. You've ignored or lost sight of that important issue. A man dying on the cross is tragic, but not out of this world extraordinary. He needs to be much more than a man to carry the sins of the World, you need him to be God manifest, but can't prove it using Scripture. You can believe it in your own mind, and that's fine. It just doesn't make much sense looking in.....
How long would a serial murderer, who planned and killed 100 people spend in Hell if he never repented or knew God? A year or so? 6 months maybe? What does Christianity say on this matter?
None of his family were believers? His Mother grew up in the Temple serving God. She raised him, his brothers and sisters grew up with him, they knew him better than anyone else; how did they not know he was the 'Word' incarnate? They missed all the signs for 30 years? His mother forgot the visit from the Angel?
Greek writers using the term 'woman' as they had little worth in their culture. The Torah says to honour your parents. There must be Jewish texts outside of the Torah showing reverence for parents.
I just find it interesting we know so little about his family
He doesn't say, I will teach you 'A' prayer, he teaches them 'The' prayer.
Before his crucifixion he begged to be saved and cried all night. How do you implore God in prayer all night without asking for forgiveness?
The article was from Morey's book. If it held any weight, people would be using it to prove to the Jews, trinity is found in the Torah.
Obvious to you maybe, everyone else says it's authors and the 'we' are unknown. Someone saw the problem and penned the Muratorian Canon or whatever it was originally called. Bart Ehrman writes,
"The Muratorian Fragment – that is, the manuscript itself — probably dates from the seventh or eighth century; it is called a “fragment” because it is incomplete: it starts in the middle of a sentence. It is a Latin translation of an original Greek composition. The matter is debated, but the majority of scholars continue to think that the text contained in the Muratorian Fragment was originally composed at the end of the second century – say, roughly around the time of Irenaeus – and that it came from Rome (based on some of the references in the text).
Paul is promoting his own understanding, his own Gospel. I don't accept Paul as promoting the message of Jesus pbuh. I outline some reasons here: Can you be saved without Christ?
Like what?
And where is this Second Century Document that was written by anonymous person(s) Decades after the Gospels were penned?
So our friend Gadar Perets asked, does this mean Jesus is God the Father?
God hands power to another God. 2 Gods.
God obeys a higher God? So Jesus pbuh is like an Angel then? Has been granted some temporary powers?
Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
Ok so lower than the rank of an Angel?
Or he is just uttering what God is telling him, speaking for God as all Prophets did:
"I CAN OF MINE OWN SELF DO NOTHING: AS I HEAR, I JUDGE: AND MY JUDGEMENT IS JUST; BECAUSE I SEEK NOT MY OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME."[John 5:30]
See above proving otherwise. He was given temporary authority just like previous Prophets.
Like borrowing a library book, yours for a limited time.
Had he prayed and asked Allah swt to send Angels there and then to destroy those who rejected him as their King, he could have done so.
He's asking people not to bear false witness and tell people what he preached.
Obviously when everyone is raised, the liars will be brought to account. Don't bear false witness, simple.
He is just using parables to explain to people to do good before they return to God. Invest their time in this World wisely, prayer, charity, good deeds and remembrance of God.
Very easy to take a story from unknown sources, oral and written and write a story about a great man. Even easier for later writers to come along and trawl through the Jewish Scriptures and give that same man the qualities and attributes listed in 1 - 43 and before you know it people are worshipping a man. What a grave sin and one you can only fall into by following blindly. May ALLAH swt protect believers from falling into such an error.