Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

[CrystalDragon]

Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

If a father or mother has done everything they could to raise their child the best they could and later on as the child becomes an adult turns to his own ways not puting into practice the good example his parents taught him, is it the parents fault that he is suffering due to his own downfalls?

There's a flaw with the analogy: human parents have limits on what direction they can guide their children in life. God can easily do anything, like keeping the children from harm. Any parent who really loved their child would do what they could to save them. Why think that God would abandon, ignore, or torture them, and if that's the case at all why call God loving unless we redefine love?

 

[Hillsage]

No, He's been a great parent and always will be to me/us.
He didn't cause people to sin more.
Explanation of Romans 5:20
By Christ and his righteousness, we have more and greater privileges than we lost by the offence of Adam. The moral law showed that many thoughts, tempers, words, and actions, were sinful, thus transgressions were multiplied. Not making sin to abound the more, but discovering the sinfulness of it, even as the letting in a clearer light into a room, discovers the dust and filth which were there before, but were not seen. The sin of Adam, and the effect of corruption in us, are the abounding of that offence which appeared on the entrance of the law. And the terrors of the law make gospel comforts the more sweet. Thus God the Holy Spirit has, by the blessed apostle, delivered to us a most important truth, full of consolation, suited to our need as sinners. Whatever one may have above another, every man is a sinner against God, stands condemned by the law, and needs pardon. A righteousness that is to justify cannot be made up of a mixture of sin and holiness. There can be no title to an eternal reward without a pure and spotless righteousness: let us look for it, even to the righteousness of Christ.
(From Bible hub)

The problem with your whole rebuttal's logic is, Christ didn't come until a couple thousand years AFTER THE LAW was given.

 

[dqhall]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

I do not know where you got the part about eternal torment from. The sun and earth will not last forever, neither will torment last forever. If God advised us to love one another, the lack of love is not God's fault. God sent Jesus to teach and heal people, not to torture them or torment them as was done in the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Hall]

There's a flaw with the analogy: human parents have limits on what direction they can guide their children in life. God can easily do anything, like keeping the children from harm. Any parent who really loved their child would do what they could to save them. Why think that God would abandon, ignore, or torture them, and if that's the case at all why call God loving unless we redefine love?

God tries to keep us from harm throughout our lifetime. We get many chances and many opportunities. Everyone gets a chance to know who God is in their lifetime to either accept Him or not, even if its in death we will still have that chance. God never abandons or tortures anyone, we are the ones distancing ourselves from Him not Him from us. And as we do that, the light becomes dimmer until we are surrounded by darkness. It would be a perfect world if the devil didn't exist but unfortunately he does. Many people who don't know God try to put all the blame on God for the bad things that happen in the world. Bad things happen because of the world, and the one in control of the worldly ways is the devil. God tries to save us from the world but we must make the first step.

 

[Hall]

The problem with your whole rebuttal's logic is, Christ didn't come until a couple thousand years AFTER THE LAW was given.

Lol...Earlier you said: So are you saying God is a bad parent then, because He didn't do more, and actually raised the bar causing his kids to sin even more, according to scripture?

You thought that Romans 5:20 meant God raised the bar by causing people to sin more. But it doesn't mean that, so posted the explanation of that verse I got from Bibblehub

 

[DeerGlow]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

Adam didn't create himself in a way that sin would be passed on? God didn't create Adam to pass on sin either. Through sin Adam and Eve were permentantly broken, marred, made imperfect. How can something pure and perfect as the original humans come from now defective ones? Without God's help, how can men undo their actions? They can't. So they're flawed, their offspring are flawed. And the flawless God (the Son) still died a horribly painful death to save us from our bad choices that are 100% our fault. And I'd like to flip your last line. Establishing that sin is man's fault, if even one person does not go to hell, God IS loving and merciful, because He is sparing people who deserve a huge punishment. He is also righteous, whether anyone goes to hell or not because He never sinned. He is not tempted, nor does he tempt us if I remember right. God is so opposite of sin, righteous can only naturally be what we call the quality of being that pure. If I had a clean chance a second life right now, how long would it probably be before I sinned? In the most favourable conditions since Eden? Even in Eden? Yet God has never sinned, even by His deep understanding of sin. Like the one who lusts for a woman commits adultery with her? He doesn't have the slightest trace of sin. Righteous. And being responsible for human evil and sin? Nope. We did that through our depravity as the product of flawed humans reproducing.

 

[James5086]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

 

[James5086]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

That's an interesting thread. I wouldn't want to be judgemental of God but we are free agents. That's your privilage. I suppose free will is the issue here. Just as the Father has life in Himself so hath he given to His son, to have life in himself. This concept of free will carries with it certain implications. Number one: The instatement of free will carries with it the very real aspect of a separate destiny. By this I mean separate from Him, our heavenly Father. Now, I don't know about you, but I want to go where He goes, the Father, I mean. The only way that can happen is that I surrender my free will to Him. By doing this i'm placing my displaced loyalty back where it belongs. Once I have committed myself into His keeping then and only then is my eternal destiny intertwined with His. Number two: We can talk about sin until we become blue in the face and it won' t do us one bit of good. Sin is simply the result of disloyalty and nothing else. This disloyalty is the result a rebellious nature. God didn't create us that way. However, He didn't create us to be His puppets either that is why He gave us free agency.

 

[Halbhh]

The fall began the moment Eve (and Adam soon followed right along) trusted the words of the serpent over those of the Lord.

A breech of trust.

By presuming to take up the mantle of God Himself -- to judge others: 'the knowledge of good and evil' -- to become Judge, that was the arrogance.

Satan's temptation (through the serpent):

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


-->"...you will be like God..."

That's the temptation -- We think to replace God, becoming the Judge, taking His place, not trusting in Him.

We act like we are God, and judge others. He's been telling us not to do that. (See beginning(s) of Matthew 7, and/or Romans 2, and/or Luke 6:37-40)

Judging them, we quickly are ready to go to anger, violence, theft (I have a right to it!), slander, murder, adultery (he doesn't deserve her, etc.)...etc., etc.

All of it, because we think to replace God -- we stop trusting in Him.

 

[surrender1]

God loves us until our death,

If so, there is a time limit on his patience and love towards us. As an earthly parent, there is no time limit on my love and patience towards my child. If he resists me for eternity, I would pursue him for eternity so that he could be made whole. Love never gives up. Love never fails.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Our damnation is entirely our fault, but salvation is entirely from God. Furthermore, it's because God is good, holy and righteous that all evil is punished. He is also merciful in that Christ Jesus took our punishment in our place; this is a free gift from God, apprehended by faith -- but for those whom in sin and rebellion reject Christ as Lord, what hope is there?

 

[Mr H A Bull]

I am not a Bible scholar but I do know that although God made us in His image, he made us all unique. The miracle is that there is nobody in the world identical to me or you. With this uniqueness comes independence of thought and the will to do what we want. We can decide whether we value God's presence or we go our own way.

My own take on this is that God needs to know who is with Him and who is against Him. Adam spoiled things and humanity was doomed to sin and so the proof to God is the effort and commitment we have to make through His son. We have the choice but the default human setting is sinfulness.

You may ask why our big powerful God just doesn't wave his hand over everything and make it good again? I see it like this. God could, He is the creator but where would the enjoyment be in a race of like thinking identical beings, all with the same personality, the same everything? God enjoys colour and variety. That's why He made the world the way he did. He want's us to demonstrate and prove to him that we are worthy on our own account. He want's to spend eternity with volunteers and not conscripts.

Why God allowed Satan to corrupt Adam in the way he did, I don't know. There is obviously an unwritten truth to be learned that God doesn't wish to reveal. Perhaps it was the only way that God could achieve the variety and uniqueness he loves in humanity? I don't know.

 

[ClementofA]

Adam didn't create himself in a way that sin would be passed on? God didn't create Adam to pass on sin either.

God created Adam & Eve in such a way that when they sinned the sin nature would be passed on via sex & conception.

God could have arranged it so that babies were made in another way that did not pass on the sin nature. So God is responsible.

Through sin Adam and Eve were permentantly broken, marred, made imperfect. How can something pure and perfect as the original humans come from now defective ones?

God could have created another Adam, Adam #2, for example. A man without the sin nature. Again, God bears responsibility.

And I'd like to flip your last line. Establishing that sin is man's fault, if even one person does not go to hell, God IS loving and merciful, because He is sparing people who deserve a huge punishment.

Better to just annihilate them, (if He's run out of Patience, Love & Power to save them), than sadisticly torment them forever. Compared to that, Hitler is a perfect angel.

He is also righteous, whether anyone goes to hell or not because He never sinned. He is not tempted, nor does he tempt us if I remember right.

Who allowed Satan to speak to Eve & tempt her in the garden of Eden? God.
Who allowed Satan to destroy Job's possessions, family & body? God.
Who drowned innocent babies with the flood in Noah's day? God.

God doesn't directly tempt anyone to sin. He has the devil, His servant, to do that for Him. Or our own fallen natures which God allowed to be brought to us through Adam & Eve's choices.

God is responsible for all these things.

God is so opposite of sin, righteous can only naturally be what we call the quality of being that pure. If I had a clean chance a second life right now, how long would it probably be before I sinned? In the most favourable conditions since Eden? Even in Eden?

Would God allow Satan to tempt you?
Would you have a sin nature that you inherited through no fault of your own?
Would God make you so you cannot sin, like the angels or saints in heaven?

"Man's heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3)."

Yet God has never sinned,
even by His deep understanding of sin. Like the one who lusts for a woman commits adultery with her? He doesn't have the slightest trace of sin. Righteous. And being responsible for human evil and sin? Nope. We did that through our depravity as the product of flawed humans reproducing.

Yet Love Omnipotent chooses not to stop many horrific things that happen daily, such as children being raped. He could easily stop them, yet chooses not to. If i had that power & failed to stop such things, a court would find me guilty of criminal actions. To say God bears no responsibility for them is ridiculous.

The questions we should ask ourselves are, why does God let such things happen? How is He going to make it right? How is He going to work this all together for good? Is that even possible? Jesus said, with God all is possible.

 

[JoeP222w]

They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own.

Completely disagree. If you believe you would not have sinned if you were in Adam's place, you do not understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No,

No, it is the nature of humans by God's sovereign decree that man is born into sin.

So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts.

In that He uses His sovereign decree, yes. In that He points a gun at man and forces man to sin, absolutely not.

But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

Are you claiming omniscience, that you know the number of the non-elect?

There is not one innocent person in Hell. No one is good, no, not one.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Adam didn't create himself in a way that sin would be passed on? God didn't create Adam to pass on sin either. Through sin Adam and Eve were permentantly broken, marred, made imperfect. How can something pure and perfect as the original humans come from now defective ones? Without God's help, how can men undo their actions? They can't. So they're flawed, their offspring are flawed. And the flawless God (the Son) still died a horribly painful death to save us from our bad choices that are 100% our fault. And I'd like to flip your last line. Establishing that sin is man's fault, if even one person does not go to hell, God IS loving and merciful, because He is sparing people who deserve a huge punishment. He is also righteous, whether anyone goes to hell or not because He never sinned. He is not tempted, nor does he tempt us if I remember right. God is so opposite of sin, righteous can only naturally be what we call the quality of being that pure. If I had a clean chance a second life right now, how long would it probably be before I sinned? In the most favourable conditions since Eden? Even in Eden? Yet God has never sinned, even by His deep understanding of sin. Like the one who lusts for a woman commits adultery with her? He doesn't have the slightest trace of sin. Righteous. And being responsible for human evil and sin? Nope. We did that through our depravity as the product of flawed humans reproducing.

But why do we deserve a harsh punishment, let one a completely non-loving of eternal torture, just for something two people did millennia ago?

 

[holyrokker]

Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own.

Your post begins with a false statement. Humanity did not inherit sin from Adam.

 

[James5086]

Where was the "rescue" by Love Omnipotent of children raped & murdered?

Nowhere. Because it didn't happen. Once again the Lord bears responsibility, this time for inaction. If He doesn't make it right, & makes it even worse by sending the grown up child into fires forever, what does that make such an imagined God?

The "problem of evil" is not just an atheist inquiry, but one Christians have wrestled with since the beginning.

 

[Hall]

But why do we deserve a harsh punishment, let one a completely non-loving of eternal torture, just for something two people did millennia ago?

It probably isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, but we know that heaven is a 1000 times better place to be at so why not try to get there instead of the other place. Wouldn't you agree that some people deserve to go to hell like Hitler? He created hell on earth for many.

 

[Hall]

If so, there is a time limit on his patience and love towards us. As an earthly parent, there is no time limit on my love and patience towards my child. If he resists me for eternity, I would pursue him for eternity so that he could be made whole. Love never gives up. Love never fails.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

 

[James5086]

What you are suggesting is that the accountability for all the worlds tragedies is not anyone's fault but Gods. I don't think this approach will work. I remember using that on my parents when I was a kid and I got disciplined anyway. They didn't buy it for the simple fact that they had taught me to know right from wrong. They weren't going to punish themselves because I had chosen the wrong path. The point is we create our circumstances from the choices we make. It isn't God who built this civilization it was us. The sickness that it is infected with, the social ailments and injustices that you are referring to belong to us. I would advise you to seriously consider a more constructive approach. Please don't take offense. I'm not judging you. I embrace you as a brother, because I love you. More importantly God loves you. The love He gives transforms us into a new creation because of Jesus, the Christ.