Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

ClementofA

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Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.
 

Godlovesmetwo

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So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts
So many atheists come up with that line.
I don't buy it. If anything God tries to rescue us from it. He allows free will so we freely choose Him instead of being forced. A sinful society is part of the free will deal. We can either add to that sinful world by choosing to worship ourselves and and all the trappings that come with it in this world. Or we can choose the narrow path towards God.
 
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ClementofA

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How funny, or rather sad, that a man thinks he is qualified to sit in judgement of God. God will not be mocked mortal, be warned.

I judge false gods, including those dreamed up by cruel oppressors.

Such as those of the Crusades, Inquisitions, Dark Ages, etc.
 
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ClementofA

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So many atheists come up with that line.
I don't buy it. If anything God tries to rescue us from it. He allows free will so we freely choose Him instead of being forced. A sinful society is part of the free will deal. We can either add to that sinful world by choosing to worship ourselves and and all the trappings that come with it in this world. Or we can choose the narrow path towards God.

Where was the "rescue" by Love Omnipotent of children raped & murdered?

Nowhere. Because it didn't happen. Once again the Lord bears responsibility, this time for inaction. If He doesn't make it right, & makes it even worse by sending the grown up child into fires forever, what does that make such an imagined God?

The "problem of evil" is not just an atheist inquiry, but one Christians have wrestled with since the beginning.
 
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brinny

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Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.

God sinned?
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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Where was the "rescue" by Love Omnipotent of children raped & murdered?

Nowhere. Because it didn't happen.

The "problem of evil" is not just an atheist inquiry, but one Christians have wrestled with since the beginning.
Read the Grand Inquisitor extract from the Brothers Karamazov by Dosteoevsky.
 
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Hall

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Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

If a father or mother has done everything they could to raise their child the best they could and later on as the child becomes an adult turns to his own ways not puting into practice the good example his parents taught him, is it the parents fault that he is suffering due to his own downfalls?
 
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mkgal1

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To me.....this article is about the best explanation I've come across for the violence and evil in this world:

Brian Zahnd said:
The New Testament begins with these words: “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” Or more literally: “The bible of the genesis of Jesus…”

Jesus doesn’t just pop into history out of nowhere—he arrives as the Seed of Abraham and the Son of David. He has a genealogy and that genealogy matters. The genealogy of Jesus is an essential part of the Big Story of the Gospel. If we don’t see how Jesus fits into the Big Story the Bible is telling we invariably reduce the gospel to postmortem hell avoidance. So how can we tell the Big Story of the Bible? It might go like this:

With Adam and Eve expelled from Eden’s paradise and Cain founding human civilization with bloody hands, humankind was set on a self-destructive trajectory away from God. In the generations to follow the migration away from God gained momentum and was marked by an exponential increase in violence. The corrupting violence of the days of Noah unleashed a flood of judgment.

Eventually God initiated his rescue mission by calling a man through whom he would begin to save the world. His name was Abraham. Abraham’s task was to leave the city of Ur founded on the Cain model and become the father of the family of faith. This faith family would be the chosen seed that would bless all the families of the earth. So the family of faith begins.

Abraham.
Isaac.
Jacob.

Jacob becomes the patriarch of twelve tribes. The twelve tribes of Israel find themselves slaves in Egypt. Moses leads Israel out of Egypt and to the promised land. Eventually David becomes the great king of Israel. David, having established his capital in Jerusalem, wanted to build a temple for the God of Israel. But God declined David’s offer to build a house for him, saying,

“You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to my name, because you have shed so much blood in my sight on the earth.”
(1 Chronicles 22:8)

David as a man of violence could not build the house of God. But God made this enormously significant promise to David:

A son shall be born to you; he shall be a man of peace. I will give him peace from all his enemies on every side; for his name shall be Solomon (peaceful), and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. He shall build a house for my name. He shall be a son to me, and I will be a father to him, and I will establish his royal throne in Israel forever. (1 Chronicles 22:9–10)


At first glance it would seem that God’s promise to David—that he would have a peaceful son who would reign as king and build the house of the Lord—is fulfilled in King Solomon. But is it? Granted, Solomon built a temple that would be identified as the temple of Yahweh for four centuries, and in retrospect we can see Solomon’s temple prefiguring something better to come. But is that all Solomon built? No.

Solomon built a harem for his seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines.

Solomon built temples to the foreign gods worshiped by his pagan wives.

Solomon built a professional standing army maintained by heavy taxation.

Solomon built all this with conscripted slave labor, including thirty thousand Hebrew slaves!

In a word, Solomon built…Egypt!

Solomon didn’t build the kingdom of God, he built a Hebrew version of the kingdom of Egypt. Solomon paganized Israel! What Moses led Israel out of, Solomon led Israel back into! Solomon built a mimicry of the pagan empires of the Gentiles. What Abraham was trying to get away from when he left Ur, what Moses led Israel out of in the Exodus, Solomon led Israel back into!

Solomon established the template for the kings of Israel to be little more then petty Hebrew imitation Pharaohs. Solomon is, at best, an enigma. If we view the Solomonic model of kingship as legitimate, we are going to have a difficult time understanding the radically different vision of kingship set forth by Jesus. (This is precisely why Jesus’ disciples had such a hard time comprehending what he was doing—they had wrong expectations about what kind of king Israel’s messiah would be.)

By the time Jesus was born the temple Solomon built had been destroyed, then rebuilt by Zerubbabel, and then greatly expanded by Herod the Great. But Jesus held little regard for Herod’s temple. He famously protested what the temple had become by borrowing the words of Jeremiah who had predicted the destruction of the first temple, saying: “Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your sight?” (Jeremiah 7:11) When the Jerusalem aristocracy objected to Jesus’ denunciation of their magnificent temple, they asked Jesus what sign he would show them to justify his actions. Jesus’ cryptic reply and John’s commentary are enormously important.

“The Jews then said to him, ‘What sign can you show us for doing this?’ Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ The Jews then said, ‘This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But he was speaking of the temple of his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:18–22)

Jesus explicitly predicted the destruction of the temple on several occasions. (Matthew 24:1–3; Luke 19:41–44; 21:20–24) But what Jesus is doing here is more subtle and more significant than that. Jesus is associating the destruction of the present temple and the construction of a new temple with his own death and resurrection. More importantly, in some mysterious way this new temple will be his body. And in case you haven’t realized it, we have discovered the true son of David, the true man of peace, the one who builds the true temple. Of course, it’s Jesus!~https://brianzahnd.com/2012/12/god-doesnt-build-his-house-by-violence/
 
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com7fy8

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Adam and Eve were God's perfect creation. But they were not perfectly like Jesus; and so they were easy prey for Satan. So we need Jesus.

Being perfectly made does not necessarily mean one has perfect character. You can make a perfect cake, but it can be easy prey for bugs.

But Jesus gives us "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30).
 
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Hillsage

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How funny, or rather sad, that a man thinks he is qualified to sit in judgement of God. God will not be mocked mortal, be warned.
I don't believe Clement WAS judging God, I think he was judging an ignorant church. And the sad fact is that much of the church isn't qualified to judge rightly, as he did IMO.

1CO 2:15 The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


Your last line is pretty good advice though, and the 'nominal church' certainly ought to take it seriously, IMO.
 
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Hillsage

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Adam and Eve were God's perfect creation. But they were not perfectly like Jesus; and so they were easy prey for Satan. So we need Jesus.

Being perfectly made does not necessarily mean one has perfect character. You can make a perfect cake, but it can be easy prey for bugs.

But Jesus gives us "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30).
I didn't change one word of this post, which came from another thread.

Those thinking that "good" or even "very good" is equivalent of 'perfect' need to be scripturally instructed a bit more. Jesus wasn't even born 'perfect', but had to achieve that position. And he had to do so, even though he was born 'sinless' and remained so, his entire life.

ROM 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

HEB 2:10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer/JESUS of their salvation perfect through suffering.


Hopefully all would agree that Jesus was still within the "Good" and "Acceptable" will of God prior to reaching "perfection". I know of no scripture that would lead us to think otherwise. IOW, Adam/Eve were never 'perfect'. Had they been so, they never would have sinned....just like "the second Adam" never sinned, on His way to perfection.
 
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surrender1

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Men are slaves of sin. They inherited this from Adam through no fault of their own. Is it, then, Adam's fault, that the human race are slaves of sin? No, Adam did not create himself in such a way that sin would be passed on. God did that. So God bears at least a very large degree of responsibility for the sin that was inherited & the human history of sins & evil acts. That's not to say that God is at fault for doing so, since that would imply that He sinned, which He never does. God intends to use this for good. He intends to make it right. But if most beings end up in torments forever, or even one individual, then God is not righteous, merciful or loving.
Not one being will end up in torment forever.
 
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surrender1

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How funny, or rather sad, that a man thinks he is qualified to sit in judgement of God. God will not be mocked mortal, be warned.
He's not mocking God. He's simply pointing out an obvious flaw in man's doctrine of ECT or eternal conscious torment.
 
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Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

If a father or mother has done everything they could to raise their child the best they could and later on as the child becomes an adult turns to his own ways not puting into practice the good example his parents taught him, is it the parents fault that he is suffering due to his own downfalls?
No, the parent is not responsible. But only a good and loving parent will never give up on their child. Their love and patience towards their child have no time limits. Does the Father put a time limit on his love and patience (i.e. upon death) towards souls but earthly parents don't?
 
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Hillsage

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Is God responsible for sin, evil and suffering?

If a father or mother has done everything they could to raise their child the best they could and later on as the child becomes an adult turns to his own ways not puting into practice the good example his parents taught him, is it the parents fault that he is suffering due to his own downfalls?
So are you saying God is a bad parent then, because He didn't do more, and actually raised the bar causing his kids to sin even more, according to scripture?

Romans 5:20 Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Hopefully, 'Clements comments' make more sense as scripture helps clear one's vision.
 
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Hall

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No, the parent is not responsible. But only a good and loving parent will never give up on their child. Their love and patience towards their child have no time limits. Does the Father put a time limit on his love and patience (i.e. upon death) towards souls but earthly parents don't?
God loves us until our death, He isn't the one who puts us in hell, we are the ones who put ourselves in that place.

Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever.” 1 Chronicles 16:34
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16
But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.” Psalm 86:15

Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
2 peter 3:15
 
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Hall

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Hell wasn't created for humans, it was created for the devil and his fallen angels. But whoever decides to follow the fallen's ways will follow the fallen's ways to the lake of fire. It is their decision not God's.

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
 
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Hall

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So are you saying God is a bad parent then, because He didn't do more, and actually raised the bar causing his kids to sin even more, according to scriptures.

Romans 5:20
No, He's been a great parent and always will be to me/us.
He didn't cause people to sin more.
Explanation of Romans 5:20
By Christ and his righteousness, we have more and greater privileges than we lost by the offence of Adam. The moral law showed that many thoughts, tempers, words, and actions, were sinful, thus transgressions were multiplied. Not making sin to abound the more, but discovering the sinfulness of it, even as the letting in a clearer light into a room, discovers the dust and filth which were there before, but were not seen. The sin of Adam, and the effect of corruption in us, are the abounding of that offence which appeared on the entrance of the law. And the terrors of the law make gospel comforts the more sweet. Thus God the Holy Spirit has, by the blessed apostle, delivered to us a most important truth, full of consolation, suited to our need as sinners. Whatever one may have above another, every man is a sinner against God, stands condemned by the law, and needs pardon. A righteousness that is to justify cannot be made up of a mixture of sin and holiness. There can be no title to an eternal reward without a pure and spotless righteousness: let us look for it, even to the righteousness of Christ.
(From Bible hub)
 
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