By 2021, the Episcopal Church will enter full communion with the United Methodist Church

[Raphael Jauregui]

Personally, I have been supportive of full communion between the Episcopal Church and the UMC for awhile. We already have full communion with the ELCA, in which I grew up, the Old Catholic Church, the Mar Thoma Church, and the Moravian Church.

What do y'all think?
United Methodist Church, Episcopal Church May Enter 'Full Communion' by 2021

 

[Paidiske]

What's the scope of the UMC? Is it purely an American thing, or does it have an international reach?

 

[tampasteve]

What's the scope of the UMC? Is it purely an American thing, or does it have an international reach?

They are in conference with other Methodists globally, but as far as I know they only have an office in South Korea and Singapore and a real structure/presence in the Philippines with three Bishops and over 500 churches.

 

[Paidiske]

So - forgive me if I'm being a bit dim here - would this have the effect of making Methodists and Anglicans (in communion with Canterbury) all in communion with one another globally?

 

[tampasteve]

I am not entirely sure, but I would think "no". For example, currently the UMC is in full communion with the ELCA Lutherans and the EC is in full communion with the ELCA Lutherans - but the UMC and EC are not in full communion yet. At least this is what I understand is the current situation.

 

[tampasteve]

Personally, I have been supportive of full communion between the Episcopal Church and the UMC for awhile. We already have full communion with the ELCA, in which I grew up, the Old Catholic Church, the Mar Thoma Church, and the Moravian Church.

What do y'all think?
United Methodist Church, Episcopal Church May Enter 'Full Communion' by 2021

I think it is a good thing. The overall theology is similar enough for communion, IMO. I would not support a merge of the UMC and EC, but full communion is something I can get behind.

 

[Padres1969]

I think it is a good thing. The overall theology is similar enough for communion, IMO. I would not support a merge of the UMC and EC, but full communion is something I can get behind.

Agreed. Clearly this isn't a merger of any kind, rather just a sharing of communion. And given among other things Methodist Eucharistic theology fits within the broader context that Anglican theology covers (given it's more non-specific nature) I don't see much of an issue.

 

[Arcangl86]

So - forgive me if I'm being a bit dim here - would this have the effect of making Methodists and Anglicans (in communion with Canterbury) all in communion with one another globally?

No. This agreement will only effect those two bodies though both of them have a global presence. To use an example from your country, think of the Lutherans. You have Provo, Called to Common Mission and Waterloo in Europe and North America respectively placing Anglicans and Lutherans in communion, but that has no effect in Australia.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm not sure I agree that has no effect in Australia? Australian Anglicans and Lutherans are not in communion, but Australian Lutherans are not in communion with the Lutherans who made those agreements. But I would have said Australian Anglicans are, by force of that agreement, in communion with the Lutherans who made those agreements, even if geography means we don't exercise that very much, because we are in communion with Canterbury and Canterbury is in communion with them.

Is that not how you see it working?

 

[Arcangl86]

I'm not sure I agree that has no effect in Australia? Australian Anglicans and Lutherans are not in communion, but Australian Lutherans are not in communion with the Lutherans who made those agreements. But I would have said Australian Anglicans are, by force of that agreement, in communion with the Lutherans who made those agreements, even if geography means we don't exercise that very much, because we are in communion with Canterbury and Canterbury is in communion with them.

Is that not how you see it working?

Ok that was a bad example, because the LCA is only a associate member of the LWF. The Lutheran World Federation though is different from the Anglican Communion. While all LWF members are in communion with each other, their unity is based around confessional subscription to the Ausburg Confession. I know at least CCM made it very clear that just because the ELCA and the PECUSA were in full communion with each other, that did not extend to other bodies who might be in communion with each. That was especially important for the PECUSA because the ELCA ahd already entered into communion with several Reformed churches.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

What's the scope of the UMC? Is it purely an American thing, or does it have an international reach?

The UMC has Central Conferences in some African countries and has affiliates in South America. They have 7.2 million members in the US which is governed by the Jurisdiction Conferences and regional Annual Conferences. Then, in the countries it serves abroad, they have 5 million members in the Central Conferences.

 

[graceandpeace]

I don't know. Ultimately, I think I will be fine with it, but I think there are many questions that will need to be answered. I'm not going to get into it here (I'm not on the site as much as I used to be), but for now I can trust the process. Basically, wait & see.

 

[Shane R]

Well, in my (highly conservative) circle, speculation is rampant that ELCA, TEC, UMC, PCUSA, and maybe even UCC could enter into some alliance quite like the United Church of Canada. And of course, the caricature of such a group is that they will have compromised themselves into oblivion for the sake of unity.

 

[Albion]

If it happens...well, it's what The Episcopal Church has intended to do for generations now, at least all the way back to the COCU days. In other words, it shouldn't be any surprise.

 

[seeking.IAM]

As a former 55-year Methodist, I welcome being in communion with the UMC. I think our differences are more in practice than theology.

 

[Shane R]

As a former 55-year Methodist, I welcome being in communion with the UMC. I think our differences are more in practice than theology.

There are some priests who are closet Presbyterians and would staunchly disagree. For them, Reformed is the only way to do theology and Arminianism is as much the enemy as the RCC.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I suspect clergy of both sides may have a different view of it than the average pew warmer of each side. I suspect that neither the average UMC nor TEC pew warmer can give much of an explanation on the differences of reformed vs Arminian theology. Perhaps it is a matter of perspective, the clergy's vs. the pew warmers?

 

[tampasteve]

Well, in my (highly conservative) circle, speculation is rampant that ELCA, TEC, UMC, PCUSA, and maybe even UCC could enter into some alliance quite like the United Church of Canada. And of course, the caricature of such a group is that they will have compromised themselves into oblivion for the sake of unity.

How would (or did, in the case of Canada) the different churches reconcile issues like Apostolic Succession, congregational vs episcopal, Real Presence (in the case of the Presbyterians) and similar issues? Perhaps it is early to delve into those issues, but I am genuinely intrigued.

 

[Arcangl86]

Well, in my (highly conservative) circle, speculation is rampant that ELCA, TEC, UMC, PCUSA, and maybe even UCC could enter into some alliance quite like the United Church of Canada. And of course, the caricature of such a group is that they will have compromised themselves into oblivion for the sake of unity.

As far as I'm aware nobody is talking about organic union at this point, or even the foreseeable future.

How would (or did, in the case of Canada) the different churches reconcile issues like Apostolic Succession, congregational vs episcopal, Real Presence (in the case of the Presbyterians) and similar issues? Perhaps it is early to delve into those issues, but I am genuinely intrigued.

The Anglican Church in Canada was not part of the merger for the United Church of Canada, and I don't know if the Methodist Church in Canada was episcopal or not. The Church of South India is a good example of how the polity can be dealt with, htough again nobody is at this point talking about organic union.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Well, in my (highly conservative) circle, speculation is rampant that ELCA, TEC, UMC, PCUSA, and maybe even UCC could enter into some alliance quite like the United Church of Canada. And of course, the caricature of such a group is that they will have compromised themselves into oblivion for the sake of unity.

The Church of South India, an episcopal and Anglican church, is a united church that brought together the Anglicans, Presbyterians, and Methodists in South India. They have unity, but they are definitely not going 'into oblivion.'