Seventh day observance compulsory?

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,584
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟657,084.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The New Covenant was made with the house of Israel only as well.
Not true, if it were only for Israel then why are we included? Jesus command to the disciples was to go to all nations.

What Jesus replaced the blood of animals with his own blood, but we are still to repent when we sin.
???

The Sabbath was a day of rest, not worship, so talking about people only having time to worship on Sunday is irrelevant since there is nothing wrong with Sunday worship.
If it was only for rest then why did Jesus go to the Temple on the Sabbath? Why were the Jews filing the Synagogues? If the Sabbath was only for rest then how come Jesus was out and about healing on the Sabbath? All you are trying to do is sabotage my post.

You keep taking In 2Cor 3:7-11 and Col 2 OUT OF CONTEXT..
Only when scripture does not agree with your beliefs do you hollar out of context, out of context! I know you will not, but I give you the opportunity to explain where I have taken anything out of context. Paul was very clear and so am I. Those verses completely douse your belief system.

God only does what he reveals to the prophets and I dont see anywhere in the OT that God said he was going to cancel the 10 C's, so to come to a conclusion that the 10 Commandments were temporary is twisting Paul's words to suit our own flesh
Ex19:5 Now IF you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

I ask you did they obey? See the IF What would happen IF they didn't obey? What happens to any covenant when one party doesn't live up to the requirements of the covenant? Hint, the covenant is cancelled. 2Cor3:7-11 is a complete thought that the 10 commandments were temporary. They came with gloryand that glory faded. Those verses tell us that the 10 have been relpacedd with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If that is wrong thern by all means tell us what is the truth. Readers, don't hold your breath until Saan explains what Paul really meant.

Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.



As mentioned before Jesus walked this earth for 40 days after his resurrection
So????

So im sure somewhere in the book of Acts, would there be mention of him telling the disciples that the Commandments were abolished,
Well, for sure he told the Corinthians.


if that was the actual case. If the 10C's were temporary, then fell free to worship other idol Gods.
If the 10 are the rule of right then by all means go out and do all the sinful thing that are not listed in the 10. It must be alight to hate your neighbor because it isn't listed.

If love is our motive in this life we will not worship idols. The law of Love covers all aspects of sin.

Saying all of you to do is love others as Jesus did being a tall order is a cheap and lazy way out of obeying God, because you pretty much determine now how God should be worshiped on your terms rather than the terms he laid out on how we are to worship him.
I don't find that to be true at all. The Old Testament has a multitude of good advice as how to live a righteous life. Abraham didn't have the 10 commandments as his guide, but yet he knew not to worship idols.

Like it or not, as a Christian you DO actually keep much of the Torah when you Love one another (Deut 6:5) and Love God (Lev 19:18) and keep the rest of the commandments that apply wether its not stealing, coveting, killing, commiting adultery etc
As I have written many times "morality is forever". Rituals like Sabbath keeping was for Israel only. Israel is defunct and so is Torah.

I see that you skipped over the fact that Torah had nothing to do with salvation. Torah was about getting into the earthly promised land, Canaan That being a fact why are you hell bent on observing rituals for something that has already happened and has since been negated?
 
Upvote 0

GingerBeer

Cool and refreshing with a kick!
Mar 26, 2017
3,511
1,348
Australia
✟119,825.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So why are you consulting religious people and not the Scripture?
I ask people to explain what they think. I read the holy scriptures to see what they say. The Holy Spirit also speaks in the holy scriptures and in the body of Christ. That is why I ask religious people and the holy scriptures and the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I asked because some say that it is compulsory while most say it is not.

Def of compulsory
If something is compulsory, you must do it because of a rule or law:

You must decide if the 10 C are still in effect if they are then they are the law of GOD thus all would be compulsory including the fourth C.

I would venture to guess that most folks would agree that 9 of the ten are still in effect only the fourth in their view is not. Interesting concept where man can do away with one precept out of the ten and still claim that the other 9 are still in effect.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 No other gods before me good one (not kept then it is a sin)
2 Shall not make graven images good one (not kept then it is a sin)
3 Don't take the Lords name in vain good one (not kept then it is a sin)
4 Remember the Sabbath keep it holy BAD ONE (not kept then it is NOT sin)
5 Honor Father and Mother good one (not kept then it is a sin)
6 Thou shall not kill good one (not kept then it is a sin)
7 do not commit adultery good one (not kept then it is a sin)
8 Don't steal good one (not kept then it is a sin)
9 No false witness good one (not kept then it is a sin)
10 do not covet good one (not kept then it is a sin)

"If you love me keep my commandments" who said this? answer Jesus
 
  • Like
Reactions: Soyeong
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Is seventh day keeping compulsory for Christians?

Only if you want to be under the Old Covenant. The Sabbath is the sign of that covenant. Exodus 31:13. Christians are under the New Covenant, and the sign of our covenant is the Cup of the New Covenant 1 Corinthians 11:25 which represents Christ's blood.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Is seventh day keeping compulsory for Christians?

Is it something that we are required to do in order to become saved? No. Is it something that we are required to do because we have been saved? Yes. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21), the Law was given to make us conscious of sin (Romans 3:20), without the Law we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7), and sin is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4), so our salvation is from living in disobedience to God's Law. However, God's intention is that His people will call His Sabbath a delight (Isaiah 58:13), so it better to not think of it as a requirement, but by faith as a precious gift that God made for us that we get the joy and the divine privilege of doing, of which you should let no man deprive you.

Weren't the Jews in Berea checking that Paul was telling old testament stories accurately?

Not quite. Paul was preaching the Gospel message to them and they diligently tested everything that he said against OT Scriptures to see it is true. So if Paul were to say something like that we don't have to keep the Sabbath, then they would have tested that against OT Scriptures, seen that it was false, and rightfully rejected what he said, but Paul never said that. Furthermore, we should follow their example of testing everything against the OT because the NT without the OT is out of context. The NT authors quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to establish that it supported what they said and that they didn't deviate from it, so we should consider interpretations of them that deviate from it to be incorrect.

Yes, it seems that all that is demanded of gentiles who are in communities that include converts from Judaism is to abstain from the pollutions of idols and from unchastity and from what is strangled and from blood. (Acts 15:20 RSV)

There are 1,050 commands in the NT, so if that was an exhaustive list of everything that would be required of Gentiles, then that would exclude over 99% of the commands in the NT, included those taught by Jesus. Christians would be free to commit murder, adultery, theft, etc., so I think it very clearly was not intended to be an exhaustive list for mature believers, but rather as stated it was a list intended for new believers coming to faith in God as to not make things too difficult for them. They would continue to learn how to serve God and walk in His ways by hearing Moses taught every Sabbath in the synagogues (Acts 15:19-21).

Some may have gone to the synagogue, many were thrown out of it and forbidden to go because they became Christians. While Jesus was still living that was what the Pharisees did.
While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." When Jesus had said this, he departed and hid himself from them. Though he had done so many signs before them, yet they did not believe in him; it was that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed our report, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe. For Isaiah again said, "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and turn for me to heal them." Isaiah said this because he saw his glory and spoke of him. Nevertheless many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. John 12:36-43

In Acts 15:20 it reports that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith and were becoming zealous for the Law, which is in accordance with Titus 2:14, so there would have been some Messianic synagogues where Gentiles would have been accepted with open arms.

Yes, it is true, every Christian learns more and grows if they have a mind do follow Jesus. Do you think that seventh day keeping comes later after one has grown for a while?

The implication of Acts 15:21 was that it was expected that Gentiles would keep the Sabbath every week, so it was among the first things taught.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟960,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
What do you mean when you say the 10 Cs are antithetical to the written law?

bugkiller

They have a spiritual aspect that is antithetical to the written law.

Only the fifth commandment, as written, carries with it a blessing: long life. Ephesians 6:2 The others carry the death penalty, or the curse of the Law. If the commandments are to be a blessing they must be fulfilled; filled full, i.e. "abstain from evil, do what is good." This pattern is revealed in the Proverbs.

The Christian is to "magnify the law and make it honorable".
Keeping your hands in your own pockets and your eyes off of your neighbor's wife (or husband) out of fear is legalistic but not very spiritual. The Law tells what not to do, the Spirit tells you what you should be doing instead, which is the antithesis of the written law.



 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Only the fifth commandment, as written, carries with it a blessing: long life. Ephesians 6:2 The others carry the death penalty, or the curse of the Law. If the commandments are to be a blessing they must be fulfilled; filled full, i.e. "abstain from evil, do what is good." This pattern is revealed in the Proverbs.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, 20 loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

So choose life!
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
The Ten Commandments are just about the only part of the Law that have a true spiritual aspect antithetical to the written law. The others are mainly rituals and ceremonies, and civil and criminal laws. Thus the "commandments" stand apart from the 'judgments and statutes'.

When Paul said that the Law was spiritual, he didn't specify just ten of them (Romans 7:14). They are all spiritual because they all are intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the laws are just examples. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faith are the weightier matters of the Law, so has always been intended to teach us how to reflect these attributes of God. Similarly, God gave instructions to be holy for he is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16), so following those "ceremonial" laws is about teaching us to reflect God's holiness.

The OC Sabbath was filled with laborious ritual and ceremony. It was hardly a day of 'rest' for anyone. When one actually rests on that day they will see the blessing that comes from properly 'observing' and 'keeping' it.

The Sabbath was commanded by God as a day of rest, not of laborious ritual and ceremony, though man has tried to pervert it by filling it with laborious ritual and ceremony.

In the OC man was made for the (ritual) Sabbath by the requirements of abstinence and commanded assembly and ceremony. Jesus flipped that on it's head when he said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

The Sabbath has always been a precious gift that God made for man to delight in.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
True, and to fully appreciate this gift it must be separated from the Law.

All the commands must be spiritually, not legalistically, understood, including the Sabbath.

Paul said that the Law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), so it is a false dichotomy that to understand it spiritually that it must be separated from the Law. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the weightier matters of the Law, so legalism has always been a perversion of it. If we correctly understand the deeper spiritual principles of the Law and we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will live according to things that are examples of those principles. We reflect the attributes of God to the world by following commands that are examples of those spiritual principles, not by merely contemplating them.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟960,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
When Paul said that the Law was spiritual, he didn't specify just ten of them (Romans 7:14). They are all spiritual because they all are intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the laws are just examples. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faith are the weightier matters of the Law, so has always been intended to teach us how to reflect these attributes of God. Similarly, God gave instructions to be holy for he is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16), so following those "ceremonial" laws is about teaching us to reflect God's holiness.

Paul explained that the Law was a "schoolmaster" for the young nation of Israel. It is only valuable to us today as a history lesson.

The Sabbath was commanded by God as a day of rest, not of laborious ritual and ceremony, though man has tried to pervert it by filling it with laborious ritual and ceremony.

Israel was commanded to assemble for a convocation on the Sabbath, which would be quite laborious for them. There was little rest or repose on that day.

The Sabbath has always been a precious gift that God made for man to delight in.

Much easier to delight in if we don't have a formal worship service on that day (if we choose use that period of time for rest). Our true 'rest' is in Jesus and the promise of salvation.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bugkiller
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟960,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Paul said that the Law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), so it is a false dichotomy that to understand it spiritually that it must be separated from the Law. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the weightier matters of the Law, so legalism has always been a perversion of it. If we correctly understand the deeper spiritual principles of the Law and we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will live according to things that are examples of those principles. We reflect the attributes of God to the world by following commands that are examples of those spiritual principles, not by merely contemplating them.

By Law I mean separated from the Law of Moses. Jesus's teachings can be confusing as he was still under the Law even while preparing himself and his disciples for it's end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bugkiller
Upvote 0

GingerBeer

Cool and refreshing with a kick!
Mar 26, 2017
3,511
1,348
Australia
✟119,825.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What do readers think this passage means?
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some do, letters of recommendation to you, or from you? You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on your hearts, to be known and read by all men; and you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God, who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendour that the Israelites could not look at Moses' face because of its brightness, fading as this was, will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendour? For if there was splendour in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendour. Indeed, in this case, what once had splendour has come to have no splendour at all, because of the splendour that surpasses it. For if what faded away came with splendour, what is permanent must have much more splendour. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendour. But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds; but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:1-18
I underlined some phrases that are relevant to this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldWiseGuy
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Adstar

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2005
2,184
1,382
New South Wales
✟49,258.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Is seventh day keeping compulsory for Christians?
I believe we should rest on that day..

But is our salvation at risk if we fail to rest on that day? Nope..

Our Works performance does not determine our salvation status..
 
Upvote 0

Bob S

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 5, 2015
4,584
2,203
88
Union County, TN
✟657,084.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Def of compulsory
If something is compulsory, you must do it because of a rule or law:

You must decide if the 10 C are still in effect if they are then they are the law of GOD thus all would be compulsory including the fourth C.
The New Testament has decided for us. Only Israel was under the 10 commandments. Israel as a chosen nation is no more. The covenant relationship is gone, history.

I would venture to guess that most folks would agree that 9 of the ten are still in effect only the fourth in their view is not. Interesting concept where man can do away with one precept out of the ten and still claim that the other 9 are still in effect.
Very simple my friend, nine of the ten are about morality. One is a ritual given only to Israel. How do I know this, look around, did God give the Sabbath command to any other nation on Earth? No history will reveal that God gave any day to any of His children except Israelites. Even then the Sabbath was not connected to salvation. It was strickly part of the law to be kept so that they could inherit earthly Canaan

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Read on SDA and educate yourself. John didn't leave you wondering what the law was. He certainly didn't mean the old covenant law like you would believe he does. He certainly didn't mean the part of the law as in the 10 commandments which Paul leaves us no doubt were transitory. Well, what other law is there you would say. John leaves us no doubt as to what he meant. 1Jn 3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


"If you love me keep my commandments" who said this? answer Jesus
Well, we know from Paul that "my commandments" are not the ministry of death, the ten transitory commands given only to the now defunct Israelites, so what are they? Maybe you didn't read the above in red. There you will find your true answer. I hate to spring this on you, but your Sabbath trying is worthless. It is a farce conjured up by some who want to control their flocks. They certainly didn't do any reasoning or study when they decided to use it as their flagship.
 
  • Like
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

listed

are you?
May 14, 2011
9,126
1,817
✟53,797.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Def of compulsory
If something is compulsory, you must do it because of a rule or law:

You must decide if the 10 C are still in effect if they are then they are the law of GOD thus all would be compulsory including the fourth C.

I would venture to guess that most folks would agree that 9 of the ten are still in effect only the fourth in their view is not. Interesting concept where man can do away with one precept out of the ten and still claim that the other 9 are still in effect.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 No other gods before me good one (not kept then it is a sin)
2 Shall not make graven images good one (not kept then it is a sin)
3 Don't take the Lords name in vain good one (not kept then it is a sin)
4 Remember the Sabbath keep it holy BAD ONE (not kept then it is NOT sin)
5 Honor Father and Mother good one (not kept then it is a sin)
6 Thou shall not kill good one (not kept then it is a sin)
7 do not commit adultery good one (not kept then it is a sin)
8 Don't steal good one (not kept then it is a sin)
9 No false witness good one (not kept then it is a sin)
10 do not covet good one (not kept then it is a sin)

"If you love me keep my commandments" who said this? answer Jesus
Any sincere person reading and understanding the Bible knows the ten commandments are not the rules for the Christian. Yes it is understood after reading this forum people like you will then say others are teaching people it is ok to murder, lie and commit adultery. That is so far from the truth, it is seen as a lie making a false accusation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bugkiller
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,970
Alabama
✟486,806.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus fulfilled, with his death, the ceremonial law that he spoke to Moses. IE verse 17

Heaven and Earth have not passed so verse 18 cannot refer to the ceremonial law thus it must refer to other laws given to Moses

Verse 19 refers to the "least commandments" indicating that there is a greater commandment in the law. Could it be the commandment that requires worship of the creator.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0