How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, the eating was ON the High Day Sabbath, as it BEGAN, for the 15th day of the month was a day to convoke on, and no regular work was to be done with the exception of preparing what was to be eaten. They slaughtered the lamb "at even" and then PREPARED it to be eaten, that night, with staff in hand, loins girded, and sandals on their feet. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

If they ate it on the High Day, then Jesus was killed and it was a day of preparation for the High Day the next day, don't you see a conflict?

 

[ImAHebrew]

Two points here:

1) I haven't deflected John's account. I gave answer to it already. a) The "preparation of the Passover" is just Friday of Passover week. b) The "passover" the priests wanted to eat, preventing them from entering Pilate's judgement hall, was the hagigah, or passover offering, which was offered and eaten on the 15th. It is conspicuously called the "paska" in the Talmud. c) There was no "high Sabbath," but only a high day on that Sabbath.

Shalom AFraizer, I hope we can come to the correct understanding of this issue. I will address this first point of yours. Obviously, I do believe that the refusal for them to not enter into the judgment hall so they would be able to eat the Passover, was for the eating of the Passover which was commanded to be eaten on the 15th day, on the High Day. Now, you have brought up the point about the "hagigah," and I have found out that IF this was not offered ON the 15th, it could be offered on one of the later days of the feast. This information would void your point. Here is what I found:

Tractate Hagigah deals with the three sacrifices that according to the rabbis a person had to bring on all three festivals, Sukkot, Pesah and Shavuot.

The first of these sacrifices is called the "Hagigah." The rabbis derived the concept of the Hagigah from the word "hag" used in the context of the three festivals. According to the rabbis, every person had to bring on the first day of the festival a Hagigah. If they could not offer it on the first day, then they could bring it for the remaining seven days. The Hagigah is a type of thanksgiving sacrifice; some of the meat went to the owners and some of the fats were offered on the altar.

So in essence, your premise that they would not enter into the judgment hall so that they could eat of the "Hagigah," really didn't hold water. They could have eaten that on any of the rest of the seven days, but IF they MISSED the eating of the Passover because of defilement, then they would need to WAIT until the Passover of the Second Month:

Numbers 9:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or [be] in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto Yahweh. 11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, [and] eat it with unleavened bread and bitter [herbs].

So AFrazier, I really don't think that your "Hagigah" is as powerful as you might think it is in explaining away John 18:28, at least it appears to be a little chink in your armor. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Not that day. Jesus was still alive.

Did He go to The Temple Himself and sacrifice it? He died WITH the lambs. So no lambs were sacrificed yet.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

IF they MISSED the eating of the Passover because of defilement, then they would need to WAIT until the Passover of the Second Month:

Numbers 9:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or [be] in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto Yahweh. 11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, [and] eat it with unleavened bread and bitter [herbs].

Pesakh Shenii

 

[1stcenturylady]

Did He go to The Temple Himself and sacrifice it? He died WITH the lambs. So no lambs were sacrificed yet.

Isn't a lamb served at the Passover meal, or not?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Isn't a lamb served at the Passover meal, or not?

It is but it has to be killed first...

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Jews did not want the bodies on the cross on the Sabbath day, right?

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.

Alright, so this "preparation" which was BEFORE the beginning of the sabbath day, was the time in which the JEWS go to Pilate to make sure that those who were being crucified, would die BEFORE the Sabbath, so their bodies could be taken away, and not remain on the cross on the Sabbath. That was the purpose of breaking their legs, as it would bring about almost immediate death "by suffocation" because they would not be able to lift themselves up to take a breath. Wasn't that a simple explanation, and one that make a great deal of sense? And then when you couple that explanation with John 19:42:

[Staff edit].

<<The Jews did not want the bodies on the cross on the Sabbath day, right?>>


Wrong. The Jews did not like the bodies on the cross on “That Day”, “because the day was great of that sabbath” of the passover. But you pretend innocent and ignorant to the fact “they HAD to kill the Passover”. “They ALWAYS, HAD to” because it was God’s command. But this time, they “HAD to”, more than ever! Because it was their LAST PASSOVER OF YAHWEH, ever!

The Jews KNEW what they were doing. The Jews had no inkling what they were doing. They were absolutely responsible for every act they did or word they spoke or thought they thought, though they could not help, but performed all, powerless and ignorant. The early morning of that day Jews would not enter the hated Pharaoh’s house and be defiled that they “At the First Night” would eat shank of lamb and unleavened cakes. The third hour they would crucify the Lamb. Did they know there would not be lamb, unleavened cakes or parched corn old or green unleavened baked?

The Jews were shocked, disorientated, and, regardless, desperately, entered into Pharaoh’s palace, the dog, “That Holy Night” or not!

“For the Jews then therefore, since it had become the Preparation, because the day was great of that sabbath, THAT THE BODIES MIGHT NOT REMAIN ON THEIR SABBATH, they asked Pilate, We beg thee that their legs might be broken that they, we beg thee, might be TAKEN AWAY!”

 

[ImAHebrew]

If they ate it on the High Day, then Jesus was killed and it was a day of preparation for the High Day the next day, don't you see a conflict?

Shalom 1stcenturylady, you may have to explain the conflict a little better to me. Here is my take. The Passover was killed on the 14th, at the going down of the sun (late afternoon), and this 14th day was the preparation of the Passover (John 19:14). Then, after sunset, on the 15th day, which is the High Day Sabbath of the Feast of ULB, the Passover is eaten. Where is the conflict? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

If you have a verse or 2 which you think proves your argument show your hole card. Show us all how you think it is a megas day. I'm not here to play 20 questions

Shalom Der Alter, my hole card is John 7:37 and John 19:31. John, in BOTH Scriptures speaks of a "megas" FEAST DAY. In John 7:37 NOTHING about it being a Sabbath, but in John 19:31, this "megas" day IS a Sabbath day. My ONLY, SINGLE question to you (not 20), how is the LAST Day of the Feast of Tabernacles a "megas" day, and NOT a Sabbath day also? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

are you saying that leaven can still be possessed on the 14th?

[Staff edit].

It before they went out was the sunrise day in Egypt, and the sunrise for Israel in Egypt, was the start of day--day of day-and-night. But "THAT SELFSAME BONE DAY" for Israel the moment the LORD like an eagle carried them on his wings, OUT!, that moment was, changed. Did not change by itself. God 'TURNED THE DAY', from sunrise and pagan, to sunset and day of redemption.

"The fourteenth day the congregation of Israel shall kill the passover in the mid-afternoon AND shall eat it in That Night ... Selfsame Bone-Day ... Night to be solemnly observed". 12:6,8; 17,18; 41,42.

IMMEDIATELY, the fourteenth day became the fifteenth ITS NIGHT before its day--"IN THAT NIGHT", "Thus the LORD saved Israel THAT DAY" 14:30.
From the evening ('ereb') on the 15th to evening ('ereb') of the 21st are seven nights observed with eating ulb.
Exodus 12:18, "In the First Month, the fourteenth day of the month, at 'ereb'..." which is after sunset evening and therefore on the fifteenth day of the First Month "...ye shall eat ulb (including) on the one and twentieth day of the month at 'ereb'.
The fifteenth day ... in all subsequent Scripture!
There's no other way the first passover had the WHOLE REDEMPTION of Israel dated on the "fourteenth day", the Passover killed on the fourteenth AND the flesh with unleavened bread eaten on the fourteenth!

In the Last Passover-Suffering of Yahweh of Jesus the Christ, at the beginning of the fourteenth day in its night, the Lord Jesus Christ "ATE", the "Pascha"-"SUFFERING OF YAHWEH" while "He gave to the disciples, the bread ... and the wine, and said, You must eat ... You must drink... I, will surely not eat this passover with you!"

 

[ImAHebrew]

No. The Passover lamb was sacrificed on the 14th. JESUS died on the 15th. Theological interpretation does not trump black and white text.

Shalom AFrazier, here is some black and white text which states that when Yeshua was eating the "supper" with His Disciples, it was BEFORE the Feast of the Passover:

Jn 13:1-2 Now before the feast of the passover, when Yeshua knew that His hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s [son], to betray him;

This appears to be a pretty good bullet. How do you answer here AFraizer that BEFORE the Feast of the Passover, the supper was ended? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, you may have to explain the conflict a little better to me. Here is my take. The Passover was killed on the 14th, at the going down of the sun (late afternoon), and this 14th day was the preparation of the Passover (John 19:14). Then, after sunset, on the 15th day, which is the High Day Sabbath of the Feast of ULB, the Passover is eaten. Where is the conflict? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Because Jesus was killed, and had to be taken down from the cross because the next day was a High day. To me that next day was the 15th, the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Because Jesus was killed, and had to be taken down from the cross because the next day was a High day. To me that next day was the 15th, the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

Shalom 1stcenturylady, I am in total agreement with you, and that High Day (megas day) was a Sabbath day ALL by itself. The weekly Sabbath was several days later. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Der Alte]

Shalom Der Alter, my hole card is John 7:37 and John 19:31. John, in BOTH Scriptures speaks of a "megas" FEAST DAY. In John 7:37 NOTHING about it being a Sabbath, but in John 19:31, this "megas" day IS a Sabbath day. My ONLY, SINGLE question to you (not 20), how is the LAST Day of the Feast of Tabernacles a "megas" day, and NOT a Sabbath day also? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Perhaps you should consider the full context. The feast of tabernacles is not the feast of unleavened bread.

John 7:2-3
(2) Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
(3) His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
...
John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
...
Joh 7:23
(23) If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
...
John 7:37
(37) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John Gill Commentary
John 7:37
In the last day, that great day of the feast,.... That is, of tabernacles, as appears from John 7:2, which was usually called חג, "the feast", in distinction from the passover and Pentecost (q); and the eighth day of it was called הרגל האחרון, "the last day of the feast" (r), as here: and it was a "great day", being, as is said in Leviticus 23:36, an holy convocation, a solemn assembly, in which no servile work was done, and in which an offering was made by fire unto the Lord. According to the traditions of the Jews, fewer sacrifices were offered on this day than on the rest; for on the first day they offered thirteen bullocks, and lessened one every day; so that on the seventh, day, there was but seven offered, and on the eighth day but one, when the priests returned to their lots, as at other feasts (s); but notwithstanding the Jews make out this to be the greater day for them, since the seventy bullocks offered on the other seven days, were for the seventy nations of the world; but the one bullock, on the eighth day, was peculiarly for the people of Israel (t): and besides, they observe, that there were several things peculiar on this day, as different from the rest; as the casting of lots, the benediction by itself, a feast by itself, an offering by itself, a song by itself, and a blessing by itself (u):
(q) Shirshashirim Rabba, fol. 5. 3. & 7. 3.
(r) Misn. Bava Metzia, c. 7. sect. 6. & Maimon. in ib.
(s) Bartenora in Misn. Succa, c. 5. sect. 6.
(t) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 55. 2. Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 21. fol. 231. 1.
(u) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 48. 1. ​

When God instituted the feast of tabernacles He did not specify that the work of cooking and preparing food was permitted as He did for ULB.

Leviticus 23:34-36
(34) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
(35) On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
(36) Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.​

​

 

[1stcenturylady]

Shalom 1stcenturylady, I am in total agreement with you, and that High Day (megas day) was a Sabbath day ALL by itself. The weekly Sabbath was several days later. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I don't know where you have the death of Jesus. It seems you have him killed before he ate the Passover. It is still confusing.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Shalom Gerhard, do you really think you have "cleared" anything up? You have tried to guide us in a confusing, mess of gibberish. Why not just stick to what is clearly being said? A Sabbath was about to begin, the bodies of those who were being crucified could not remain on the cross during the Sabbath, so they did what they did. They went to Pilate and asked that their legs be broken. The essence of this request was that there was an urgency. Do you know what an urgency is? They did not want the bodies to REMAIN on the cross for the Sabbath, thus, they requested this of Pilate. What is so difficult about this for you to comprehend? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Deja vu...
<<A Sabbath was about to begin>>

What is so difficult for you to comprehend "THE DAY" that "WAS"? That NO <<Sabbath was about to begin>>! But, "Since the Preparation had begun ... because the day ongoing, was, great of that sabbath (of the passover)"!
NO sabbath was about to begin; the passover sabbath "was", in full swing!

What is so difficult for you to comprehend the REASON "the Jews ask"? "Since the Preparation had begun*, and because the day was great day of that (passover) Sabbath ... therefore, the Jews asked Pilate"!

Because it is written, clear, "the day was great of that sabbath ... THEREFORE the Jews asked Pilate...".

[*The Preparation had begun "since evening had come" on the Sixth Day of the week, Thursday night Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57.]

Deja vu...
<<the bodies of those who were being crucified could not remain on the cross during the Sabbath, so they did what they did. ... The essence of this request was that there was an urgency.>>
So what is so difficult about this, for anyone to comprehend? Nothing, except that you say, <<those were being crucified during the Sabbath>> while they were not <<being crucified during the Sabbath>>, but on the day before, had been crucified already!
"Now since the Preparation began" those hanged <<being crucified>>, "on the sabbath ... 'that sabbath'", were hanging being crucified, still.

So, What is so difficult about this for anyone to comprehend?
Because it is written, clear, "the day was great of that sabbath ... THEREFORE the Jews asked Pilate...". The greatness of "the day of that sabbath (that) was" already ongoing, that already was in its evening after sunset and after even perhaps its evening, was the cause of the urgency; was the urgency itself, for the Jews. If it weren't, the Jews would not have asked Pilate anything.
What is so difficult about this for anyone to comprehend?
Nothing. For thus also is it written, "You shall not let him hang ALL NIGHT, BUT BEFORE DAY, shall take him down and THE SELFSAME DAY shall BURY him." Deuteronomy 21:23.
What is so difficult about this for anyone to comprehend?
Nothing. For it NOT written, <<...the bodies could not remain on the cross during the Sabbath...>>, but, the bodies could "Not remain ALL NIGHT", and had to be buried, on, "the sabbath", "the selfsame Bone-Day", “sabbath”.
... had to be buried, on,
-- "the sabbath" by the LORD GOD FOR BURIAL commanded
-- "the sabbath" of first sheaf's "prostrate rest in sanctuary"
-- the "prostrate rest in sanctuary" or the "waving down" by "the priest" of the sanctuary, in the place of "safe-keeping" of the first sheaf "for you", to the passover-LAW of the God of the Jews, to bury the passover.
What is so difficult about this for you to comprehend?

Do you know what this meant?
They went to Pilate and asked that their legs be broken. It was the BONE-DAY great day sabbath of the passover, that "NO BONE" of the Lamb of GOD, shall be broken or severed or "taken away"! It meant that all the plans of the Jews and satan shall be THWARTED and The LORD the MAN OF WAR SHALL HAVE GREATLY TRIUMPHED.

Do you know what this meant? It meant it was the Passover-Suffering of Yahweh Lamb of God Our Passover, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

It meant the Jews did not want the bodies to remain on the cross, "since great was the day of that sabbath": OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH.
What is so difficult about this for you, and you say you are a Jew, to comprehend?!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The day was great of that particular weekly Sabbath (the 15th). It was not just a regular weekly Sabbath but it was also a feast day.

And you were one of those who alleged Jesus is spoken of as being crucified in and after John 19:31?! Is it possible!? Unbelievable it is...

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If you think the gospels contradict each other, then there's not much else I can say. If you think the Synoptics harmonize with John, then you have to demonstrate, credibly, how the disciples made ready the passover on the 13th, how the 13th was the first day of unleavened bread (not the feast of unleavened bread), and how the passover was slain on the 13th, in order to accommodate Jesus being killed the next day on the 14th. I can tell you now that it can't be done credibly. OR, you can get on board the truth train and recognize that John can be harmonized with the Synoptics, as explained in one of the paragraphs above.

You are getting warm ... warm ... colder ... cold ... warm ... warmer ...WARMER ...!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And you were one of those who alleged Jesus is spoken of as being crucified in and after John 19:31?! Is it possible!? Unbelievable it is...

I have not changed my position. He died on Friday the 14th. They needed to get the bodies down before sunset because the Sabbath would start.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Deja vu...
<<A Sabbath was about to begin>>

What is so difficult for you to comprehend "THE DAY" that "WAS"? That NO <<Sabbath was about to begin>>! But, "Since the Preparation had begun ... because the day ongoing, was, great of that sabbath (of the passover)"!
NO sabbath was about to begin; the passover sabbath "was", in full swing!

What is so difficult for you to comprehend the REASON "the Jews ask"? "Since the Preparation had begun*, and because the day was great day of that (passover) Sabbath ... therefore, the Jews asked Pilate"!
[*The Preparation had begun "since evening had come" on the Sixth Day of the week, Thursday night Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57.]

Deja vu...
<<the bodies of those who were being crucified could not remain on the cross during the Sabbath, so they did what they did. ... The essence of this request was that there was an urgency.>>
What is so difficult about this for anyone to comprehend?
Because it is written, clear, "the day was great of that sabbath ... THEREFORE the Jews asked Pilate...". The greatness of "the day of that sabbath (that) was" already ongoing, that already was in its evening after sunset and after even perhaps its evening, was the cause of the urgency; was the urgency itself, for the Jews. If it weren't, the Jews would not have asked Pilate anything.
What is so difficult about this for anyone to comprehend?
For thus also is it written, "You shall not let him hang ALL NIGHT, BUT BEFORE DAY, shall take him down and THE SELFSAME DAY shall BURY him." Deuteronomy 21:23.
What is so difficult about this for anyone to comprehend?

And NOT <<...the bodies could not remain on the cross during the Sabbath...>>, but, the bodies could "Not remain ALL NIGHT", and had to be buried, on, "the sabbath"
-- "the sabbath" by the LORD GOD FOR BURIAL commanded
-- "the sabbath" of first sheaf's "prostrate rest in sanctuary"
-- the "prostrate rest in sanctuary" or the "waving down" by "the priest" of the sanctuary, in the place of "safe-keeping" of the first sheaf "for you", to the passover-LAW of the God of the Jews, to bury the passover.
What is so difficult about this for you to comprehend?

Do you know what this meant?
They went to Pilate and asked that their legs be broken. It was the BONE-DAY great day sabbath of the passover, that "NO BONE" of the Lamb of GOD, shall be broken or severed or "taken away"! It meant that all the plans of the Jews and satan shall be THWARTED and The LORD the MAN OF WAR SHALL HAVE GREATLY TRIUMPHED.

Do you know what this meant? It meant it was the Passover-Suffering of Yahweh Lamb of God Our Passover, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

It meant the Jews did not want the bodies to remain on the cross, "since great was the day of that sabbath": OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH.
What is so difficult about this for you, and you say you are a Jew, to comprehend?!

Shalom Gerhard, I comprehend and understand you very well. In fact, I would like to take the liberty to clarify what I understand from your teachings. It might help to get to the bottom of just exactly WHEN was Yeshua buried...the same day He died on, or 24 hours later on the next day?

You believe Yeshua was crucified on the preparation of the Passover (14th day of the 1st month), which was in your thinking, a Thursday. Yeshua breathed His last at around 3 in the afternoon (Mark 15:34-9th hour), and hung on the cross UNTIL it WAS the Great Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and THEN, AFTER this Great Sabbath WAS, the Jews go to Pilate and ask that the legs be broken, because the Jews did not want the bodies to remain upon the cross while this Great Sabbath of the Feast was presently taking place. Now, since this Great Sabbath of the Feast was currently transpiring Thursday sunset to Friday sunset, then that makes this Great Sabbath of the Feast to be the preparation for the WEEKLY Sabbath also. So, after Pilate agrees to give Joseph the dead body of Yeshua, Joseph takes His body down from the cross on this Great Sabbath of the Feast and works all Thursday night and through the day portion of Friday to get to about 3 in the afternoon to finally finish the burial. Hopefully I have comprehended you well so far. And that brings me to where I think you have a fatal flaw in your thinking and timeline.

You believe that the Jew's preparation spoken about in John 19:42 was the preparation of the WEEKLY Sabbath, and that a whole day had transpired from when Yeshua died, until He was LAID in the sepulchre. Well, John here in John 19:42, after describing the steps taken by Joseph and Nicodemus in getting Yeshua ready for burial, states that they LAID Him THERE, BECAUSE of the Jews' preparation, for the sepulchre was "nigh at hand." Gerhard, your whole theory here falls apart based upon the fact that the sepulchre was "nigh at hand." If there was 24 hours for getting Yeshua buried, what difference would a nearby sepulchre make? Is not John stating that THIS time frame was RIGHT before the Sabbath (Jews' preparation), and they LAID Him in a tomb that was "nigh at hand?" You jump through one hoop after another to try to get YOUR time frame to work out, and you have neglected to understand the simple fact that this Garden Sepulchre, was NIGH AT HAND to the crucifixion site. Why would John mention the "nigh at hand" unless it had a bearing on getting Yeshua LAID in the tomb PRIOR to the Sabbath starting, as it was the preparation of the Jews? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. Burn everything you believe and have written about a Thursday crucifixion and a Friday burial...it is not true, ACCORDING to the Scriptures.