Is it by works or by faith?

Robert Richborough

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Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Its all about your relationship with God and Jesus, most people who are worried about this issue, are not likely to be at fault, usually its those so prideful and so sure of their saved state, that they forget their relationship with Jesus.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Welcome! Daily Bible readings: John 14:6, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, Ephesians 2:8-9, then Romans 10:8-13!!
Great passages! I think it's good to rest in what Scripture clearly declares, rather than making one's own rationalization the basis for doctrine projected onto other ppl.
 
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Jay83x

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The preaching thing has always confused me. I've always been a shy loner type of person so preaching on the streets etc terrifies me. But paul said "woe is me if i do not preach the gospel" and theres a verse somewhere that says if you don't preach then that person will die in their iniquity but their blood i will require from you. I've been trying to do my bit via social media but I don't know if that's acceptable to God?
 
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Robert Richborough

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Great passages! I think it's good to rest in what Scripture clearly declares, rather than making one's own rationalization the basis for doctrine projected onto other ppl.

Then forgive me if im wrong, what is meant by Matthew 7:21-23 ?
 
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faroukfarouk

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The preaching thing has always confused me. I've always been a shy loner type of person so preaching on the streets etc terrifies me. But paul said "woe is me if i do not preach the gospel" and theres a verse somewhere that says if you don't preach then that person will die in their iniquity but their blood i will require from you. I've been trying to do my bit via social media but I don't know if that's acceptable to God?
1 Peter 3.15 says:

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear". (This is not necessarily public preaching at all.)
 
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Robert Richborough

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Why are the ppl in the passage here even supposed to be Christians? maybe they think they are but clearly are not.

They call Jesus Lord, accepting Jesus as lord and savior consider us saved no? But calling someone Lord and accepting them as your Lord are two total different things ? Do we know their not Christians ?
 
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faroukfarouk

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They call Jesus Lord, accepting Jesus as lord and savior consider us saved no? But calling someone Lord and accepting them as your Lord are two total different things ? Do we know their not Christians ?
It's not in the mere profession, it's whether the Lord has worked in their hearts. Acts 16.14
 
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Robert Richborough

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It's not in the mere profession, it's whether the Lord has worked in their hearts. Acts 16.14

Well thats what I mean, having a relationship with Jesus pretty much comes with the Lords work in your heart, the closer you come to Jesus the more he works in you.
 
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Zatek

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OK I'm Baptist, and I'm very confused on the question of salvation. Here are my questions:

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?
Yes, however it is important to understand what it means to be saved in the first place. The Bible describes saved people as being change, changed so much that they are like a new person. There are lots of people who enjoy the excitement of something new, and appear to be changed at first, but then get bored and go back to their old life. Of course that isn't to say that people don't make mistakes, and growing into a mature Christian takes a long time, but if you are never growing and constantly making the same mistakes over and over and over then that's a very strong indicator you were never saved in the first place.

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?
Well the way you put the word refuse in there changes the implication dramatically. Everyone has their own strengths and weakness and maybe someone's weakness is evangelism. No one is great at everything, maybe you're great at leading and organizing events and motivating people, but not so good at evangelism, then that's fine, use the talents God has given you. If you're not good at anything, then you might want to go back to your first question, if you aren't growing in any area of your faith then are you really a Christian? If you are a true Christian then you should be finding out what you are good at and how you can use that to serve God.

3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?
It depends. People like to play a lot of word games with this issue. Forgiveness of sins comes from faith alone. You can't receive forgiveness for sins simply by doing "enough" good works. However, that does NOT mean that someone who is disobedient and ignores what God says will be saved. Your obedience to God proves that you do have faith. Obviously that doesn't mean people don't make mistakes, but like I mentioned before, there's a distinct difference between people who never grow at all and people who are growing and becoming a more mature Christian over time but still make mistakes.
 
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Soyeong

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OK I'm Baptist, and I'm very confused on the question of salvation. Here are my questions:

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?

Hello. Both people who think OSAS is true and the people who think that it is false base their view on their interpretation of the Bible, so people who think it is true will say it is biblical while those who think it is false will say that it is not. The issue is whether it is the correct interpretation. I see verses that encourage perseverance to the end and warn against falling away as being a fairly clear indicator that OSAS is false.

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?

For what it is worth, the Great Commission is a command to go and make disciples of all nations, which is about forming relationships, not just about spreading the Gospel. In other words, if you were to set up loud speakers around the planet and made it so that everyone on the plant heard the Gospel, you would be spreading it, but you wouldn't be making disciples. The issue of whether are are saved is not determined by our actions, but by whether we have faith in God to guide us in how we should live, and it is our faith that determines our actions. However, I do not think that the Great Commission means that we all need to be seeking those personal relationships because we are members of one body and all have different callings and gifts. For example, someone who works a full-time job who gives generously so that missionaries are free to work full-time in service of God play an equally important role in making disciples of all nations.

1 Corinthians 12:12-30 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[d] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,[e] yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.


3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?

In Hebrews 11, every example of saving faith is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's commands, so faith is always associated with requiring us to do good works, and living by faith has never referred to living in a manner that does not seek to obey God's commands. So while we are saved by faith alone apart from works, faith is never alone apart from works, but rather our faith upholds the Law (Romans 3:27-31). According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation from sin involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to refrain from doing what is ungodly and sinful, so while our salvation is not earned by doing good works, our salvation from sin necessarily involves being trained by grace through faith to do them. We have been saved by grace through faith not by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing good works by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10).
 
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Neogaia777

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But he wasn't born again.
He could have been, if he had not killed himself... And, could have fulfilled a great purpose like the rest... But, I think that was part of prophecy too, and Jesus already knew he would lose him...

God Bless!
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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As you point out there is justification which happens for anyone who at least accepts the cross and is baptized in the water and seeking god , but then adoption which is through the holy ghost, having the spirit of christ on the inside you gain access to the spiritual kingdom.

Sanctification is a lifelong process that involves works which I mentioned already....but salvation isn't a life long process you are saved from your sins through baptism and able to resist sinning with the holy spirit on the inside. Additionally, i'm not protestant.

Also catholics don't believe salvation depends on if you sin or not (IK some and talked with a priest as well before). They have something called confession where you can sin each week you just have to take it up with a priest. In other words you can sin and still be saved (I believe this also) you just have to take confess it to a priest.

They believe sin is bad and you should deal with it...but you can deal with it every time at confession so if you sin again you're fine. Difference for me is I believe you can take it to God and then leave it at the alter and move on with the power of the holy spirit that enables you to be holy if you have him some catholics believe this as well. Some believe that confession has its purpose but you shouldn't be returning for the same sin all the time.



Now look i'm not saying you're saved and you straight up stop sinning... although after getting the holy spirit we have the power to resist sin sometimes we choose to hold on to certain sins. 1 John 2:1 says sin not but if ye sin ye have an advocate with the father. Some like my pastor as soon as they are saved leave the stuff they held on to behind right away. He left his girl on the side right away, he left his cigarettes right away, he stopped cussing and lying straight up. Some enter the "sin not" category straight up and are able to move to the 1 john 3 spiritual state.

But for some like myself it took me time to really walk in the power I received and I had to go to the father a few times. For example I used to cuss all the time and still had that issue after being saved but I took it to God and I don't cuss anymore. In fact friends be like "Mike did you cuss" and i'm like no I just said so and so. ANd they are like man I was gonna say I've never heard you cuss.

God can transform us... we shouldn't limit what he can do. We can stop committing adultery, we can "be holy in all manner of conversation", we can change if we just seek jesus and seek the holy spirit.
 
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Winken

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They call Jesus Lord, accepting Jesus as lord and savior consider us saved no? But calling someone Lord and accepting them as your Lord are two total different things ? Do we know their not Christians ?
The Book of Matthew was written to Jews. Your reference in Matthew 7:21-23, is entirely Jewish, related to them receiving Jesus as their promised Messiah. The "Kingdom" that some Jews will not enter is the Messianic Kingdom, the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on the Throne of David right here on earth. We must not confuse Matthew with Paul. One is written to Jews, the other to Gentiles and those Jews who accept Jesus not as the Messiah for the Nation of Israel, but by Grace through Faith.

How can one read John 14:6, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, Ephesians 2:8-9, then Romans 10:8-13, then post a scripture to the contrary? Solution: A scripture posted to the contrary, Matthew 7:21-23, for example, cannot possibly contradict the cited scriptures! There are no contradictions when one Spiritually appraises God's Word!
 
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Raphael Jauregui

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OK I'm Baptist, and I'm very confused on the question of salvation. Here are my questions:

1. Is OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved) Biblical?

2. If a Christian refuses to spread the Gospel, are they going to hell?

3. Is it truly by faith, and not works that we are saved?

I pose these questions due to a video I saw online. Supposedly a Korean Artist had a tour of hell with Jesus, and during the tour, she said that Christians who don't share the Gospel, or don't find sharing the Gospel as important will go to hell. Is this true?

I'm sort've scared of hell right now, since I struggle with evangelism. I know I should share the Gospel, but I just have such a hard time with it.

*Sorry If I posted this in the wrong section*
As a Christian Universalist, subscribing to the teachings about apokatastasis or αποκαταστασεις as advocated by St. Gregory of Nyssa, my view is going to be inherently different than those who may be more exclusivist in their Soteriology. I believe, in my discernment, that Salvation is through the grace of Jesus Christ, and that this grace is ultimately, though in what time and in what manner is known only to God, able to transform all of creation and restore it completely. Within this Christian Universalism, doing good for the sake of doing good is still essential, and repentance is something that is possible even after death.
 
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