Joel Osteen: Man of God or Man of the People?

Do you believe God is generally pleased with what Joel Osteen is doing?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 17.4%
  • No

    Votes: 36 52.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 21 30.4%

  • Total voters
    69

Phil 1:21

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Well how do we know he's a real wolf? We need proof! How do we identify wolfs in sheeps clothing?

Jesus tells us how. Matthew 7:15-20.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
 
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Rakis

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Jesus tells us how. Matthew 7:15-20.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Ok great! I'm being open minded here with you on this matter so now let's put up bullet points or points of difference meaning we need to be specific and proof to back up our claim! The only proof we would get is from the words he uses to state his doctrine that is NOT the teaches of Jesus. Example: Joel believes sinning is ok BUT Jesus says sin no more!
Another one is: Joel believes Jesus is not the only way to the Father BUT the bible says Jesus is the way the truth and the life there is no other way to the Father except through me. So this is a good starting point, than later looking into his phscy is another, seeing if he is a manipulator or deceiver. So it's really profiling the man. But you got to be specific
 
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JoeP222w

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Well how do we know he's a real wolf? We need proof! How do we identify wolfs in sheeps clothing?

Osteen refuses to call sin, sin. He refuses to call people to repentance. He refuses to say that Jesus is the only way to the Father. His preaching is extremely man-centered. He proclaims health, wealth and prosperity if you have faith in yourself.
 
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Rakis

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Ok great! I'm being open minded here with you on this matter so now let's put up bullet points or points of difference meaning we need to be specific and proof to back up our claim! The only proof we would get is from the words he uses to state his doctrine that is NOT the teaches of Jesus. Example: Joel believes sinning is ok BUT Jesus says sin no more!
Another one is: Joel believes Jesus is not the only way to the Father BUT the bible says Jesus is the way the truth and the life there is no other way to the Father except through me. So this is a good starting point, than later looking into his phscy is another, seeing if he is a manipulator or deceiver. So it's really profiling the man. But you got to be specific
Jesus tells us how. Matthew 7:15-20.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Osteen refuses to call sin, sin. He refuses to call people to repentance. He refuses to say that Jesus is the only way to the Father. His preaching is extremely man-centered. He proclaims health, wealth and prosperity if you have faith in yourself.

Refusing to call sin sin in his own life? Or in someone else's life that's sinning willfully directing this towards the saved? or unsaved?
He refuses to call people to repentance after sinning or leading people to repentance after the preachings finished? (Altar call)
He refuses to say that Jesus is the only way?
His preaching is man centred self help, faith in yourself for prosperity in every area of life.

Refusing to make a statement doesn't prove if he agrees or disagrees without a statement we have no proof. However being open minded that he could have vurious reasons why he made no statement we just can't assume he denies the truth of Gods Word.

His preachings is very centred on encouragement and the bible says it's a gift and his teachings I must add is very sound BUT I notice he's not a all rounder! but this still doesn't disqualify him. Self help is part and parcel with the gift of encouragement. So again we have come to a dead end unless I misunderstood you in he refuses.
 
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Rakis

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Jesus tells us how. Matthew 7:15-20.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

The Bible says where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom ok let's use this verse for an example ok.
have you gone to a religious church? (no names) have you ever noticed the difference when Gods spirit is not in the building? I personally have it actually creeps me out because there's defantly something in there but it ant the Holy Spirit.
This is a dead give away if Jesus isn't in the building nor has he ever visited the building it's a deads man grave bro and I could bet my last penny the spirit of God does not live inside them.
 
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JoeP222w

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Self help is part and parcel with the gift of encouragement.

I find nowhere in the Bible that teaches "self help" or that we are to encourage one another from a perspective of "self help".

Rather the Bible teaches that we are dead in our trespasses and sin against the holy and righteous God, incapable of doing anything at all apart from the grace of God. We are not to trust in ourselves, but in God alone.

Ephesians 2:1-10
Jeremiah 17:5-9

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. (6) In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. (7) Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.
 
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Rakis

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I find nowhere in the Bible that teaches "self help" or that we are to encourage one another from a perspective of "self help".

Rather the Bible teaches that we are dead in our trespasses and sin against the holy and righteous God, incapable of doing anything at all apart from the grace of God. We are not to trust in ourselves, but in God alone.

Ephesians 2:1-10
Jeremiah 17:5-9

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. (6) In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. (7) Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.

Self help isn't taking the place of God not at all. Self help is someone encouraging you that you can do whatever your finding hard to do and self help will get yourself of the coach and into mowing the laws self help works against procrastination. Big difference.
 
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Rakis

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I find nowhere in the Bible that teaches "self help" or that we are to encourage one another from a perspective of "self help".

Rather the Bible teaches that we are dead in our trespasses and sin against the holy and righteous God, incapable of doing anything at all apart from the grace of God. We are not to trust in ourselves, but in God alone.

Ephesians 2:1-10
Jeremiah 17:5-9

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. (6) In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. (7) Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.

Self help is the action side to get the job completed.
 
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Rakis

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I find nowhere in the Bible that teaches "self help" or that we are to encourage one another from a perspective of "self help".

Rather the Bible teaches that we are dead in our trespasses and sin against the holy and righteous God, incapable of doing anything at all apart from the grace of God. We are not to trust in ourselves, but in God alone.

Ephesians 2:1-10
Jeremiah 17:5-9

Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. (6) In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths. (7) Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.


A better way to understand self-help is spelt backwards.
If a friend says I know your hungry so I made you something to eat so "help-self" and so you don't get up and move to get you something to eat and you become moody now people around you got to put up with your complaining.
 
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JoeP222w

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Self help isn't taking the place of God not at all.

I disagree.

Self help is someone encouraging you that you can do whatever your finding hard to do and self help will get yourself of the coach and into mowing the laws self help works against procrastination.

I disagree. How is it "self" help if someone else is encouraging you? That is not the definition of "self help".
 
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JoeP222w

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A better way to understand self-help is spelt backwards.

No. Self-help spelled backwards is "pleh-fles". We are not communicating on the same wavelength friend.

If a friend says I know your hungry so I made you something to eat so "help-self" and so you don't get up and move to get you something to eat and you become moody now people around you got to put up with your complaining.

That is not self help. If someone provides something to you, it is not self help.
 
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Rakis

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I disagree.



I disagree. How is it "self" help if someone else is encouraging you? That is not the definition of "self help".

Ok well I'm internet fatigued but hopefully dude you got my point but if not we can go at it again. But that's me bro. If you come up with some evidence to find him guilty let us know peace out bro.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Jesus taught us to care for the poor. Joel exploits them by conning them into donating to his ministry under the guise that God will repay them the money many times over. The Lord isn’t some celestial Santa Claus that you can leverage for a new bass boat or a bigger house by doing good deeds and donating to Joel. The guy is a con man with a Bible…nothing more. He’s Jim Bakker without the makeup encrusted wife.
 
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Rakis

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Jesus taught us to care for the poor. Joel exploits them by conning them into donating to his ministry under the guise that God will repay them the money many times over. The Lord isn’t some celestial Santa Claus that you can leverage for a new bass boat or a bigger house by doing good deeds and donating to Joel. The guy is a con man with a Bible…nothing more. He’s Jim Bakker without the makeup encrusted wife.

Yeah that's the principle of sowing and reaping! Sowing and reaping is biblical.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Yeah that's the principle of sowing and reaping! Sowing and reaping is biblical.

Except Jesus was talking about reaping rewards in Heaven, eternal salvation in His Kingdom. Joel is talking about bass boats and McMansions. The concept of living "Your Best Life Now" is the antitheses of Christ's teaching.
 
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Rakis

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Except Jesus was talking about reaping rewards in Heaven, eternal salvation in His Kingdom. Joel is talking about bass boats and McMansions. The concept of living "Your Best Life Now" is the antitheses of Christ's teaching.

One of the methods bank tellers and merchants learn in order to distinguish real money from counterfeit bills is to examine genuine $100 bills over and over again so that they more likely to spot the counterfeit bills when they see them. In the same way we can learn to recognize destructive people by knowing what to look for.
Some may object to any attempt to identify wolves among us because it sounds uncharitable and judgmental to call someone a wolf. Only Jesus knows a person’s heart so who are we to judge? Yet, Jesus himself warns us that there are those who claim to be believers, they may even be leaders in the church, but they are vicious or ravenous wolves dressed up in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15).
The apostle Paul warns Timothy that there will be people who act religious, but are puffed up with pride, who are unloving, unforgiving, slanderous, and cruel (2 Timothy 3:2-9). Part of spiritual maturity is gaining the ability to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:14). Why is this necessary? Because Paul reminds us that even Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). Evil pretends to be good, especially among church folk.
Sometimes as Christian counselors we make a naive assumption and it gets us into terrible trouble. We assume that if someone claims to be a Christian and talks like a Christian, and knows biblical principles, that means he or she is a committed Christian. That’s not true.
Just like there are counterfeit $100 bills that attempt to pass for the real thing, there are those among us who attempt to pass for Christians but underneath they are ravenous wolves. How do we tell the difference?

Jesus said by their fruit we will know them. A wolf can be an expert at talking like a Christian but over time, when you observe his or her behaviors, they look more wolfish (aggressive). As the saying goes, the sweetest tongue often has the sharpest tooth. Here are three things to watch out for.

  1. Wolves live for the love of power rather than the power of love. Wolves refuse accountability and resist submission to authority. You’ve heard the phrase lone wolf? Wolves in sheep’s clothing put themselves as their highest point of reference. They often use charisma and charm to “win” people over but they do not have mutual or reciprocal relationships. People are to be used, possessed, exploited, or controlled rather than loved.
  1. Wolves look like sheep and talk like sheep but they bite like wolves, especially when the sheep are disagreeing or dissenting. Winning and being right are their highest values and they do whatever they need to in order to stay “on top”. When operating in church or religious settings their methods are often underhanded and cunning in order to appear less aggressive. They don’t want to look like wolves, that’s why they pretend to be sheep.
When you challenge or confront a client what happens? Is he humble? Reflective? Willing to consider what you are saying? Or does he bristle, attack you, deflect, or blame? Remember, when someone willingly comes for counseling, he or she is asking for your help. When you try to give it to them, do they receive it or is their presence in counseling for a different purpose?
  1. Wolves are experts at deceit. That’s why they are successful at looking like sheep. Wolves pretend to be good and care about the sheep but those closest to them (their family) know the truth. They’ve been bitten again and again and again.
But the wolf’s ability to maintain his cover is one reason why it’s so difficult for church leadership (including Christian counselors) to believe the person (sheep) who has been wounded by the wolf. Those in charge fail to see him as a wolf and assume that what is happening is merely two sheep biting one another. Look again. Look harder. Wolves have much sharper teeth and stronger jaws than sheep do. A sheep cannot harm a wolf even if he pretends he’s wounded. A wolf kills the sheep.

It’s interesting that God chose a wolf as a poignant word picture to portray this type of person who lives among us. A wolf is a predator. It has a strong jaw and 42 sharp teeth designed to stab its prey to death. The Bible warns us that, “reckless words pierce like a sword (Proverbs 12:18). Verbal abuse is real and it when regularly done, lethal to the person being pierced by it.

Let’s not naively close our eyes and think that there are no wolves in our churches. They are everywhere.
 
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