Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[1stcenturylady]

It is possible as you say that both the Bible Sabbath affirming scholars and the pro-Sunday scholars are all wrong and you are right.

But there is such a thing as "objectivity" and when a Bible detail is sooooo incredibly obvious that the scholars on BOTH sides of the debate -- can see it clearly.

Well that is pretty rare -- and a level of objectivity -- that is a wake-up call for all those whose tradition insists that they ignore the detail.

You don't know me, but I ignore nothing. That is why I am not a denominationalist. I haven't found even one that believes everything I believe. When I find a conundrum, I pray about it and don't let go until I know the truth, and then, because of my acute fear of the Lord, I do what He wants. Anything less is sin.

 

[BobRyan]

You don't know me, but I ignore nothing. That is why I am not a denominationalist. I haven't found even one that believes everything I believe. When I find a conundrum, I pray about it and don't let go until I know the truth, and then, because of my acute fear of the Lord, I do what He wants. Anything less is sin.

Ok fine. you are always free to chart your own course. You have free will.

But the method I suggest will help us determine if the other person is actually hearing what is being said in response. The point is not so much about persuading as accuracy in understanding what the differences actually are.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Ok fine. you are always free to chart your own course. You have free will.

But the method I suggest will help us determine if the other person is actually hearing what is being said in response. The point is not so much about persuading as accuracy in understanding what the differences actually are.

Okay, what is your definition of grace? And how is it if we walk in the Spirit we are not under law?

 

[bugkiller]

Bob S, isn't the Ten Commandments based on the eternal law of God - loving God with all your heart, soul and strength, and loving your neighbor"? The 10 Commandments is a Covenant (Exodus 34:28). Throughout the Bible each time a covenant is made, there is a sign of that covenant. For instance the Abrahamic Covenant; God promised Abraham that the Seed would come through his line. The sign of God's covenant with Abraham was Circumcision, which is very much related to the seed of a man. When that covenant was fulfilled in Christ, the sign of circumcision was no longer a law. It was done away with, right? However, the Seed/Christ remained. That is the same as the fulfillment of the covenant of the Ten Commandments. The laws of God remained, but we now keep them through walking in the Spirit, which does more than just keeping those commandments, but makes us love. It's sign was the Sabbath (Exodus 31:13). REMEMBER the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. The sign of our New Covenant is based on the blood of Jesus, without which we would still be sinners (Romans 6:1-7). The representation of the blood is the CUP of the New Covenant. "Do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me." Do you see the parallel? Jesus is the substance of the sign of the old covenant, and He is also the substance of the sign of the new covenant. The sign of the fulfilled covenant is what is done away with, not the law. A person is no longer judged if they don't keep the Sabbath, but they sure are if they kill somebody and never repent. Do you see? And remember Romans 14. If Bob R wants to keep the Sabbath because of his conscience, then he is honoring God. It is not a sin to keep the Sabbath, even though a new sign has replaced it. And if I keep everyday the same in honor of God, then I'm not sinning either with regard to the Sabbath. Let each person be convinced in their own mind.

Was murder wrong before the law? I refer you to Cain. Was or is there any mention of the sabbath prior to Israel? Is the sabbath a sign to the world or Israel according to your verse?It can not be both.

Remember the law came after Abraham.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That part is true.

Hence Ephesians 6:2 pointing out that the unit of Ten still holds up even in the NT -
The unit of Law in which the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise"...

As we all know.

And everyone here knows by now that the same author said Now we are delivered from the law... There is no qualifier, so it must mean all aspects of the law. Paaul is clearly talking about the 10 Cs by quote.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Was murder wrong before the law? I refer you to Cain. Was or is there any mention of the sabbath prior to Israel? Is the sabbath a sign to the world or Israel according to your verse?It can not be both.

bugkiller

My verse, as you call it, only points out that the Ten Commandments was a Covenant. What did you think I was saying?

 

[Bob S]

Bob S, isn't the Ten Commandments based on the eternal law of God - loving God with all your heart, soul and strength, and loving your neighbor"? The 10 Commandments is a Covenant (Exodus 34:28).

No, it is based on what God wanted the Israelites to live by. The 10Cs are not about loving God or our fellow man. God said nothing about loving in any of the 10. They were the duty of the Israelites to keep. The covenant was the 10 plus the remainder of the book of the law. The book gave meat to the 10. God dictated it to Moses.

Throughout the Bible each time a covenant is made, there is a sign of that covenant. For instance the Abrahamic Covenant; God promised Abraham that the Seed would come through his line. The sign of God's covenant with Abraham was Circumcision, which is very much related to the seed of a man.

I don't get your concept that circumcision is related to the seed of man????

When that covenant was fulfilled in Christ, the sign of circumcision was no longer a law. It was done away with, right? However, the Seed/Christ remained. That is the same as the fulfillment of the covenant of the Ten Commandments.

Hold on here Lady, the covenant with Abraham has not been fulfilled By Jesus. Jesus fulfilled the covenant made with Israel. Abraham didn't break his covenant with God. When Abraham died the covenant between him and God naturally ended. Covenants are between two parties. The Israelites did and that was the reason for the coming of Messiah.

The laws of God remained,

Are you making that up or have you some source that I have not heard? When one party to a covenant breaks the covenant then there is no covenant. That is the reason Jesus said not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law (Torah) until he ended it on the Cross and ratified the new covenant with His own Blood. God initiated it and Jesus ended it. The Jews of course wouldn't accept the fact that it ended until 70 years later when as predicted by Jesus the Temple was destroyed along with Jerusalem and the Jews scattered all over the World.

but we now keep them through walking in the Spirit,

WE do???? "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." Paul names much more that the law revealed.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

which does more than just keeping those commandments, but makes us love. It's sign was the Sabbath (Exodus 31:13). REMEMBER the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. The sign of our New Covenant is based on the blood of Jesus, without which we would still be sinners (Romans 6:1-7). The representation of the blood is the CUP of the New Covenant. "Do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me." Do you see the parallel?

Makes us love? A normal person is born with the desire to love and be loved. The Holy spirit doesn't "make" us do anything.

We are sinners not was sinners. We are sinners saved by grace. Jesus died to save sinners. I don't want to read something into what you wrote that is not plain to me, but I would like to know from where you get your beliefs. And no I do not see the parallel.

Jesus is the substance of the sign of the old covenant, and He is also the substance of the sign of the new covenant.

Are you trying to make your post hard to understand because I don't get it.

The sign of the fulfilled covenant is what is done away with, not the law.

Do you understand what you just wrote. Now I would that you run all that by Paul and Jesus because Jesus gave Paul the inspiration to write that it was the law that was done away with. I don't remember reading anything about the sign.

A person is no longer judged if they don't keep the Sabbath, but they sure are if they kill somebody and never repent. Do you see?

Yes I see. The Sabbath was a ritual law given only to Israel. We are not keeping Jesus command to love our fellow man if we kill him.

And remember Romans 14. If Bob R wants to keep the Sabbath because of his conscience, then he is honoring God. It is not a sin to keep the Sabbath, even though a new sign has replaced it. And if I keep everyday the same in honor of God, then I'm not sinning either with regard to the Sabbath. Let each person be convinced in their own mind.

The new covenant has no days to remember as special. Choose what you like. What BR's church is doing is sinful. It is telling us we will not inherit our heavenly home unless we keep the Sabbath. That is totally false.

 

[bugkiller]

One thing I should further explain. If you walk in the Spirit, you are not under the law. However, if you break the law, you are judged by it. But, not just the Ten Commandments, but love. Therefore, if you hate your brother, you put yourself into God's judgment. In other words, you don't have to go so far as to actually murder stated in the Ten Commandments. The laws of Jesus are more strict than the Fathers. However, He gives us His magic weapon - His own Holy Spirit. He provides the power to live above the law.

No mam I am not. I am either under grace or not under grace (see Paul's personal testimony in Rom 7). It is not one minute yes and the next minute no. No I do not believe in OSAS. My personal testimony is I do not live a life style of wickedness (sin) and have no desire to test God's grace. This is achieved because I follow the leading of the HS.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

As I said, let each be convinced in His own mind. I am convinced that because they did not have Jesus as their Redeemer under the Law in the wilderness, they needed a reminder of the Creator, thus to REMEMBER the Sabbath Day. But when the Creator came to earth, we didn't need a reminder, we had the true substance - the Creator Himself, who became man and shed His blood, thus the Cup. Do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me. I know Adventists do both signs. But, just as circumcision, the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant, is no longer applicable to us once the Seed was realized, because now it is the circumcision of the heart; the same goes for the Sabbath, the sign of the Covenant with the Jews which laws are now written on our hearts, when the Creator Jesus came and died for us. The new sign of the Cup of the New Covenant, has replaced the old sign.

I really do not think you understand. Not only was the Sabbath a sign it was also a law, a command. How can you write that the covenant with the Jews are now written on our hearts and the Sabbath is no longer applicable when the Sabbath was part of the covenant? Lady you have some tall splainin to do if you want to convince me you have the right belief system.

 

[bugkiller]

referring to post
Yesterday at 10:21 PM#328




Good point. Sorry for the confusion - the end of your post did not agree with the actual Bible .. where we find that for all eternity after the cross "ALL MANKIND" comes before God to worship "From Sabbath to Sabbath" as the weekly cycle and in the New Earth "From New Moon to New Moon" as the monthly cycle.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" for all eternity - after the cross in the NEW Earth.

Not saying that Christ did not perfectly fulfill the command "do not take God's name in vain" -- just saying that compliance with it "does not delete it". Obviously.

so then... I am still going to stick with the Bible on this one.

You posted this is a weekly cycle. It says nothing about "on."

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Is the "they in verse 24 different than all flesh in verse 23?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Worship to God -- owed to God - as Creator came to mankind in Genesis 1-2:4 as even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars will admit. (It just does not get any easier than that).

And worship to God - owed to God - as Creator CONTINUES in the NT - as we see in Revelation 14:6-7 7 perfectly declares for all NT saints in its quote of the Sabbath commandment language of Exodus 20:11

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

There is nothing about the sabbath in Rev 14:6-7. Your sameness only identifies God.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Was murder wrong before the law?

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"
Romans 4 "Where there is no LAW neither is there violation"
Genesis 4 God said to Cain - "SIN is crouching at your door - you must master it".
Genesis 26:5 " Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

I refer you to Cain. Was or is there any mention of the Sabbath prior to Israel?

No mention at all of "Do not take God's name in vain" prior to Exodus 20. A "detail that does not make a difference" to the commandment -- that commandment was always valid.

But Exodus 20:11 DOES point back to Genesis 2:1-3 for the origin of the Sabbath. The seventh day Sabbath. The seventh day made into a holy day - in Genesis 2:1-3.

The point remains.

==========================

That is an irrefutable answer to the issue that you posted. All that is left is to "re-post that same issue" as if the answer was never read.

 

[BobRyan]

You posted this is a weekly cycle. It says nothing about "on."

Another "detail that makes no difference" -- since as we all know the references for "from year to year" and from "Sabbath to Sabbath" are proven to be cycles specific to the event. In this case the event is the weekly Sabbath.

In the other case it is "from new moon to new moon" another specific "event" that happens monthly.

And of course we have the "from year to year" example as well.

1. Exodus 13:10
   Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.
2. Judges 21:19
   So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the LORD from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.”
3. 1 Samuel 2:19
   And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

The point remains.

 

[bugkiller]

1. As Exodus 20:11 and Genesis 1-2:3 remind us -- Sabbath commandment given BEFORE there was ever a wilderness or a Jew.

Why do you need to be reminded often there is no mention of the 7th day sabbath prior to Ex 16?

2. Nothing in the actual Bible says "Sabbath given for those who do not have Christ". Same thing is true for "Do not take God's name in vain".

There is also nothing in the Bible that says the sabbath was given for the Christian. The Bible does say it was given to Israel, though.

3. Hebrews 4:1 says "we have had the Gospel preached to us - just as THEY also"

Is this Gospel the law?

4. 1 Cor 10:4 "THEY all drank from the same SPIRITUAL Rock -- and that Rock was CHRIST"

This is kind of a mystery to me. But that Rock (Christ) can not be Jesus because of Jn 1:17 alone.

5. Moses AND Elijah stand WITH Christ - BEFORE the Cross - in Matt 17

So, your point is...

6. "The GOSPEL" was preached to Abraham Galatians 3:8

I have beena fter you for some time to identify what that Gospel is or was. Are you ever going to ID it for us?

7. "Abraham SAW My day and was glad" John 8.

Why, yeppers!!!

I am going to stick with the Bible on these details.

Now, Bob.

By contrast - the actual Bible says that when the Creator came to Earth the first thing He said was "DO NOT Imagine that I have come to delete/downsize the LAW". Matthew 5.

Who gets credit for being the Creator according to Rev 4 and 5? (Hint it is not Jesus.)

Even the majority of pro-Sunday scholarship will admit to this Bible detail.

What detail? Obligation to keep the 7th day sabbath? No as shown to you before from the same sites you use to out of context to prove your faux point.

"As oft as you do this - you do show the Lord's death until He comes"

The Lord's Supper replaces - PASSOVER "Christ our Passover has been slain" 1 Cor 5.

What happened to your Mat 5:17-18 claim?

Bible details matter and as said before even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars accept this Bible fact about Passover and the Lord's Supper... specifically that the TEN Commandments - all TEN remain according to the Bible.

Yes Bible details matter. All of them in fact. You expect us to not notice them.

And so also do the majority of pro-Sunday scholars consider that they too are keeping the Sabbath commandment (as edited by their traditions) and Passover as the Lord's Supper.

IOW they do not preach or keep the 7th day sabbath as you claim.

That is not where we differ with them.

Oh please.

1. Circumcision is not in the TEN Commandments.

Yeppers, but it is part of the law given by God.

2. Circumcision never applied to gentiles or women

True and parts of the law do not apply to men. Your point is worthless.

3. Circumcision is a part of the ceremonial law that in 1Cor 7:19 Paul contrasts with Moral law.

Circumcision is not ritual. Paul does not say it is important to keep the 7th day sabbath, nor the law because he says "Now we are delivered from the law. Rom 7:6.

4. The UNIT of Moral Law that Paul identified in Ephesians 6:2 is the TEN Commandments.

So what. Please see my comment above about being delivered from the law.

Sabbath "for mankind" as it as GIVEN -- Mark 2:27 -- according to Christ.

Nothing but an out of context implied meaning.

Sabbath "for ALL MANKIND" Isaiah 66:23 - even in OT this is the scope for it.

This verse says nothing of the kind.

Sabbath for gentiles in OT - Isaiah 56:1-8.

Fora gentile to qualify as in v 3 and 6 they must submit to Ex 12:48.

Pointed out dozens of times. Bible texts ignored even more often than that

Sure enough.

============================ my proposal for improved communication.

Next time you post a view you have already posted... add to it my Bible text response that I have already posted on why the Sabbath remains.

Do what? You do not even respond to our quoted Bible texts. Why should we tack on anything to your passages? Can not follow a conversation?

I will do the same for you. Next time I post a Bible text proof that the Sabbath continues -- even for all eternity for all mankind in the New Earth etc - I will try to remember if you ever responded to the point - and what you said, and will add that to the end of my post as my understanding of your "answer".

Your Isa 66 text does not prove the sabbath continues. You admitted the verse is about cycles. It says nothing about on. I can not count the times I have responded to that verse because I am not going to review 15 years of posting.

Then you can correct my response of how I thought you answered it.

And I will post a correction to your response that states how you think I answered your point already..

=====

A few rounds like that -- and pretty soon we will both become pretty accurate on what the other person's view is - even if we do not accept it.

You already know.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

That part is true.

Hence Ephesians 6:2 pointing out that the unit of Ten still holds up even in the NT -
The unit of Law in which the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise"...

As we all know.

Everyone knows that in Ephesians 6:2 Paul AFFIRMs the command to honor parents instead of arguing "we have been delevered from this law"

And everyone here knows by now that the same author said Now we are delivered from the law...

Just not in real life.

In Real life Paul says "Do the then nullify the Law by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Romans 3:31.

Then He goes on to point out in Romans 8:4-9 that the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN They" -- and contrasts them with the saints.

 

[bugkiller]

I really don't care if many Sunday keepers call Sunday the Sabbath. That proves nothing, except ignorance. They think they are still under the law, when, because of the Holy Spirit, we are above it. We are in the New Covenant of the heart, not the oldness of the letter. When we walk in the Spirit we are not under the law. You may have, but I don't recall you ever saying what you believe not being under the law means.

Yes and that is a very real problem of so called grace churches. They preach and demand a partial law adherence of the flesh. They generally do not preach or teach about the new creation of a born again believer.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It is possible as you say that both the Bible Sabbath affirming scholars and the pro-Sunday scholars are all wrong and you are right.

But there is such a thing as "objectivity" and when a Bible detail is sooooo incredibly obvious that the scholars on BOTH sides of the debate -- can see it clearly.

Well that is pretty rare -- and a level of objectivity -- that is a wake-up call for all those whose tradition insists that they ignore the detail.

Most of them are nothing but denomination parrots teaching what is demanded of them. That is primarily why I am not a licensed preacher.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, it is based on what God wanted the Israelites to live by. The 10Cs are not about loving God or our fellow man. God said nothing about loving in any of the 10. They were the duty of the Israelites to keep. The covenant was the 10 plus the remainder of the book of the law. The book gave meat to the 10. God dictated it to Moses.



I don't get your concept that circumcision is related to the seed of man????

Hold on here Lady, the covenant with Abraham has not been fulfilled By Jesus. Jesus fulfilled the covenant made with Israel. Abraham didn't break his covenant with God. When Abraham died the covenant between him and God naturally ended. Covenants are between two parties. The Israelites did and that was the reason for the coming of Messiah.


Are you making that up or have you some source that I have not heard? When one party to a covenant breaks the covenant then there is no covenant. That is the reason Jesus said not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law (Torah) until he ended it on the Cross and ratified the new covenant with His own Blood. God initiated it and Jesus ended it. The Jews of course wouldn't accept the fact that it ended until 70 years later when as predicted by Jesus the Temple was destroyed along with Jerusalem and the Jews scattered all over the World.


WE do???? "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." Paul names much more that the law revealed.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.



Makes us love? A normal person is born with the desire to love and be loved. The Holy spirit doesn't "make" us do anything.

We are sinners not was sinners. We are sinners saved by grace. Jesus died to save sinners. I don't want to read something into what you wrote that is not plain to me, but I would like to know from where you get your beliefs. And no I do not see the parallel.


Are you trying to make your post hard to understand because I don't get it.


Do you understand what you just wrote. Now I would that you run all that by Paul and Jesus because Jesus gave Paul the inspiration to write that it was the law that was done away with. I don't remember reading anything about the sign.



Yes I see. The Sabbath was a ritual law given only to Israel. We are not keeping Jesus command to love our fellow man if we kill him.


The new covenant has no days to remember as special. Choose what you like. What BR's church is doing is sinful. It is telling us we will not inherit our heavenly home unless we keep the Sabbath. That is totally false.

This is going to be a little difficult to answer as there are so many parts. But, here goes.

1st section: Yes, you are right, the 10c's didn't have much to do with love, as they didn't have the Holy Spirit to walk in. That is why the New Covenant is far better than the Old Covenant. And Exodus 34:28 says what the Covenant is, The Ten Commandments.

2nd section: I thought this was obvious, but here goes. What member of the body is circumcised, and where does the seed come out? Birds and Bees 101.

3rd section: You say the Abrahamic covenant was done away when Abraham died? Did I hear you correctly. Jesus was the Seed, with a capital S. And remember, the covenant between God and Abraham was ONE SIDED. God made it with Abraham when Abraham was asleep. Therefore, the covenant cannot be broken, but it could be fulfilled. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ." So you see, Christ was the Seed of the covenant, and did not end when Abraham died.

4th section: The only difference between not being under the law and being under the law is if you keep it or not. And through Jesus, we are able to keep it by walking in the Spirit. God said, "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” What is that based on, but the laws of God. If the law was dead, no one would be cast into the lake of fire. The only commandment of the 10 that is not binding is the Sabbath, only because it was the sign of the Old Covenant, because now we have a new sign, based on the blood of Jesus, the Cup of the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 11:25.

5th section: I agree. When we walk in the Spirit we keep far more than just thou shalt not do this and that.

6th section: Love is one of the fruit of the Spirit. So, yes, the Spirit causes us to love with an agape love, not just philia, eros and storge.

7th section: You heard me right, we WERE sinners, but how can you say you are still a sinner if you are dead to sin? You would have to be practicing sin to still be a sinner wouldn't you? I think you and I have a difference of opinion as to what grace is. Maybe to you it is unmerited favor, right? And you are right up until you are born again with a new spirit. Then you receive the Holy Spirit, and grace is now great POWER. Power, not only in gifts, but to be righteous. Acts 4:33 "And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all." This Hebrew style of writing is called doubling. Saying the same thing twice, but in different ways for emphasis and clarity. 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 3:5-10 shows a Christian. Yes, there will be unintentional sins that you will make, but a Christian must not commit a willful sin and not repent immediately, and then turn away from it forever. The Spirit quickens our conscience. Therefore, "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God."

7th section, at the end: The parallel has to do with the SIGNS of the Covenants. REMEMBER to keep the Sabbath; The Cup of the New Covenant - "Do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me. The wording is a parallel to me that each are signs. Colossians 2 says of the Sabbath that Jesus is the substance, and the Sabbath was just a shadow. This is why the Sabbath is no longer needed as a law out of the 10, and not something that can be written on our hearts. Only 9 can be written on our hearts. Do you object to any of the other commandments?

8th section: Sorry, I'm not trying to make it hard to understand. Maybe if you read it a few times you would get it. Or maybe these explanations give you further insight to what I mean. But don't take my word for it. Let us reason together and learn from each other.

9th section: Signs: Sabbath: “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you."

And, In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

10th section: I'm glad we agree.

11th section: I disagree that BR's church is sinful. They do not understand about signs of covenants is all. If they want to keep the Sabbath, even though they are not keeping it according to OT law, they are doing the little they are doing to honor God. Don't you see that? Read Romans 14, and especially verse 10. He needs to read it too.

The end.

 

[BobRyan]

Most of them are nothing but denomination parrots teaching what is demanded of them. That is primarily why I am not a licensed preacher.

bugkiller

Your own pro-sunday scholars represent the "other side" of the debate from all those that affirm the unchanged unedited Bible-Sabbath. The fact that all TEN of the TEN Commandments remain for mankind is a Bible detail that BOTH sides freely admit to seeing.

We call this "objectivity" when both the opposing sides admit to such a glaringly obvious Bible detail.

You have free will of course and can reject objectivity in all of its forms. But the detail does not vanish for the rest of us - just because you do not present that level of objectivity in support of your own speculation.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I really do not think you understand. Not only was the Sabbath a sign it was also a law, a command. How can you write that the covenant with the Jews are now written on our hearts and the Sabbath is no longer applicable when the Sabbath was part of the covenant? Lady you have some tall splainin to do if you want to convince me you have the right belief system.

Let me know if there is still more splainin to do once you read my long post to you that I spent an hour preparing. LOL