Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[BobRyan]

If you loved God with all your heart, soul and strength, wouldn't you honor everything about Him, including His name?

True. I fully agree. And as Jesus said (pre-cross) "IF you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" just as we see in Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" -- spoken by Christ Himself according to Hebrews 8:6-10.

Do you really need a LAW to tell you not to do what you would not do naturally anyway

Paul said in Romans 3:19-20 and Romans 7 that the LAW defines what sin is - for the saints not just the lost... EVEN in the NT.

Jesus said Matt 4 "Man does NOT live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" -- scripture is included there.

Jesus said that misguided people would do evil thinking that they were serving God John 16:1-3.

In the dark ages they got the idea that they did not need the Word of God to inform them. But that did not work well.

James says the LAW of God is still a mirror for the saints.

John says in 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" .

The NEW Covenant is quoted in Hebrews 8:6-10 -- unchanged from its form in Jeremiah 31:31-33 -- and how does Jeremiah know that the Ten Commandments are no longer included in the moral law of God? He never claimed to know such a thing.

Even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this Bible detail about God's Ten Commandments.

 

[stuart lawrence]

True. I fully agree. And as Jesus said (pre-cross) "IF you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" just as we see in Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" -- spoken by Christ Himself according to Hebrews 8:6-10.



Paul said in Romans 3:19-20 and Romans 7 that the LAW defines what sin is - for the saints not just the lost... EVEN in the NT.

Jesus said Matt 4 "Man does NOT live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" -- scripture is included there.

Jesus said that misguided people would do evil thinking that they were serving God John 16:1-3.

In the dark ages they got the idea that they did not need the Word of God to inform them. But that did not work well.

James says the LAW of God is still a mirror for the saints.

John says in 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" .

The NEW Covenant is quoted in Hebrews 8:6-10 -- unchanged from its form in Jeremiah 31:31-33 -- and how does Jeremiah know that the Ten Commandments are no longer included in the moral law of God? He never claimed to know such a thing.

Even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this Bible detail about God's Ten Commandments.

I'm having a chuckle here. Although we would never agree as to the fourth commandment, that aside I am finding it I a seventh day Adventist who understands individual law is written on your mind and placed on your heart, and that includes law written on tablets of stone. Shame on those who come from mainline denominations as it were!
No offence meant

 

[bugkiller]

You posted


But it is the very start of your post where you make a key mistake.



That is the most extreme contradiction of the claims of Christ in the Gospel of John - that I have ever seen!!

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”



The one I identified for you in that post you quoted and responded to above

Where? You are showing Jesus as nothing more than a parrot. Then in Mat 19 you are portraying Jesus as saying something you call Scripture says is not so. That makes Jesus contradicting Scripture. No sale.

John 15:10 does not say "do not keep My Father's commandments". John 12:29 says "the opposite" of such an imagined idea.

In that it says keep "My commandments" it does. The verse does not say nor imply "keep My Father's commandments." Thus there is opposition. Opposed is defined as (of two or more things) contrasting or conflicting with each other. Therefore I made no mistake. I have no clue why you cite Jn 12:29. OH you mean v 49where Jesus seems to confess being nothing more than a parrot.

Hebrews 8:6-10 says it is Jesus speaking the TEN Commandments at Sinai.

Where?

From your statement above - you appear to have changed your mind and decided to keep them since Jesus spoke them and they are Jesus' commandments.

You are assuming things in error.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Historically -

some folks "felt like" it was ok to burn protestants at the stake - and God was "ok with it" -- no problem at all.
some folds "felt like" tormenting Catholics was "ok" and "felt" that God had no problem with it.
among Mormons many used to "feel like" God was "ok" with polygamy.
Many folks "feel like" it is ok to make images for bowing down before and promising to serve the beings that they represent.

The idea of "do what you feel like doing - because whatever you feel god approves of ... well He really does approve of it -- since you "feel" that way".

Never provides good substitute for actually reading the Word of God to SEE what HE says He approves of ... now that we all actually have Bibles.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm having a chuckle here. Although we would never agree as to the fourth commandment, that aside I am finding it I a seventh day Adventist who understands individual law is written on your mind and placed on your heart, and that includes law written on tablets of stone. Shame on those who come from mainline denominations as it were!
No offence meant

Indeed - just because we differ on some details/some-points does not mean that we must differ on everything that we find in the Bible.

Every post I make includes a signature line affirming the point that pro-Sunday scholars agree with me that the Ten Commandments are written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant - yet they also would differ with me on what that means we can do with the actual Bible detail regarding the seventh day... and the 4th commandment.

Fine. I admit we have those differences - but on the areas where we do agree I point out that it is a "Bible detail" so apparent to the reader that even those scholars that oppose my acceptance of an unmodified unchanged unedited Bible Sabbath will at least admit that the "unit of Ten" that God gave - remains ... and is written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant.

And given the many ways the denominations find to differ with each other - it is "rare indeed" to find that in the midst of the differences there is this one giant glowing island of "agreement" on a Bible detail of such importance.

And to that I say "it just does not GET any easier than that!"

 

[bugkiller]

I will just reply here. It is clear from your responses you fail to understand what I have tried to communicate to you.
As that is the case, there seems no point in us continuing

No, I fully understand and comprehend what you are saying. You are saying at least part of the law is enforce. That contradicts Mat 5:17-18.

bugkiller

 

[stuart lawrence]

No, I fully understand and comprehend what you are saying. You are saying at least part of the law is enforce. That contradicts Mat 5:17-18.

bugkiller[/
BTW

Gal5:18 is not the best scripture for you to quote concerning thus subject

No, I fully understand and comprehend what you are saying. You are saying at least part of the law is enforce. That contradicts Mat 5:17-18.

bugkiller

From your responses you don't understand what ibam saying.
BTW
Gal5:18 is not the bed scripture for you to use, for what happens when you don't follow after the Holy Spirit?
If you claim to faultlessly follow after the Holy Spirit, would you not be claiming sinless perfection?

 

[stuart lawrence]

No, I fully understand and comprehend what you are saying. You are saying at least part of the law is enforce. That contradicts Mat 5:17-18.

bugkiller

From your responses you do not understand what I am saying, so we had a communication problem. May have been my fault, or yours, but it makes debate impossible

 

[bugkiller]

Who are you responding to? Can you please use the Post Reply red button so it is clear?

The poster quoted in my post.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

The poster quoted in my post.

bugkiller

There wasn't one. That is why I asked. I'm wondering if I have them on "ignore." So who were you posting to?

 

[stuart lawrence]

No, I fully understand and comprehend what you are saying. You are saying at least part of the law is enforce. That contradicts Mat 5:17-18.

bugkiller

And BTW, I made it repeatedly clear, there is no law of righteousness in place for the Christian.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Bugkiller just tell istcentury lady you posted to me. She likes to tell people she has me in ignore.
She believes I you commit a sin once saved you enter an unsaved state immediately.
She also believes you cannot be saved until all sin has ceased.
One wonders in what way she believes Christ is her saviour

 

[1stcenturylady]

True. I fully agree. And as Jesus said (pre-cross) "IF you Love Me KEEP my Commandments" just as we see in Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" -- spoken by Christ Himself according to Hebrews 8:6-10.



Paul said in Romans 3:19-20 and Romans 7 that the LAW defines what sin is - for the saints not just the lost... EVEN in the NT.

Jesus said Matt 4 "Man does NOT live by bread alone but by every WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God" -- scripture is included there.

Jesus said that misguided people would do evil thinking that they were serving God John 16:1-3.

In the dark ages they got the idea that they did not need the Word of God to inform them. But that did not work well.

James says the LAW of God is still a mirror for the saints.

John says in 1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" .

The NEW Covenant is quoted in Hebrews 8:6-10 -- unchanged from its form in Jeremiah 31:31-33 -- and how does Jeremiah know that the Ten Commandments are no longer included in the moral law of God? He never claimed to know such a thing.

Even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this Bible detail about God's Ten Commandments.

Unfortunately, if we mistakenly believe the Commandments of Jesus are the same as His Father's Commandments, the Ten Commandments, we don't see that they aren't, anymore than the sign of the NEW covenant is the same sign as the OLD covenant. John was the writer of John 15:10. John also wrote 1 John 3:23 which are the commandments of JESUS.

Jesus said "My yoke is easy, and My burden is light." His law, which He gives us the Holy Spirit to keep and carry us, is LOVE.

I remember when I was defending the 10 Commandments, when I thought everyone else only kept 9. How wrong I was. From midnight to 4 in the morning, this friend and I battled, debated, and fought, until it was like a light went on over my head like an epiphany. I got it! I finally saw what grace really was, and why we are no longer under the law.

Then we will remember Christ's blood through the CUP of the New Covenant, which we drink in remembrance of Him, with the same fervor we remembered the Sabbath of the Old Covenant to keep it holy. It is significant that Paul used the word "remembrance" of Jesus, the same word used for the Sabbath, which Jesus was the substance of? When we see that, we will begin to understand the meaning of keeping the commandments of Jesus, and keep them with the same fervor as the Jews kept the Father's commandments, which He gave until Christ came to put an end of keeping the law in our own strength. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." How? The Holy Spirit given to us by Christ changing our corrupt nature that needed a law, to a new nature that keeps the law of love naturally.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Its amazing how people cannot grasp a simple fact

THROUGH the law you become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

If you bore false witness would you be conscious you sinned because you had born false witness, or would you only be conscious you sinned because you failed to love as you should?

 

[Lulav]

Guess what I found in this thread?

ALSO

'S


Now for those who don't do many rebuses

This Thread has way too many Pronouns:
Too many

Ewes and Eyes
(You's and I's)


So that I won't have to post this

Thank You! ​

 

[BobRyan]

Unfortunately, if we mistakenly believe the Commandments of Jesus are the same as His Father's Commandments, the Ten Commandments, we don't see that they aren't,

Hebrews 8 says they are.

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He (Christ) says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I (Christ) will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
On the day when I (Christ) took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.


The Bible says it is Christ who was speaking at Sinai.

So then "If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" -- John 14:15 - includes Christ's commandments at Sinai ...

So then it is "still wrong" to take God's name in vain --- even in the NT.

===================================

No wonder then we have these statements from Christ. Statements totally debunking the idea of a rift/opposition/negation between God's Commandments and Christ's.


John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

 

[BobRyan]

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." How? The Holy Spirit given to us by Christ changing our corrupt nature that needed a law, to a new nature that keeps the law of love naturally.

For Christ "is the goal of the law" not the end of it... since under the New Covenant the "LAW (known to Jeremiah) is written on the heart and mind" according to the NT.

The still-valid still-active Law of God points out our sin and points us to Christ as Savior.

Romans 10:4 Common English Bible (CEB)
4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God.

Romans 8:4-9 says that the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed can they"

1 Cor 7:19 'what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Just as 1 John 5:2-3 reminds us

So also Revelation 14:12.

 

[stuart lawrence]

For Christ "is the goal of the law" not the end of it... since under the New Covenant the "LAW (known to Jeremiah) is written on the heart and mind" according to the NT.

The still-valid still-active Law of God points out our sin and points us to Christ as Savior.

Romans 10:4 Common English Bible (CEB)
4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God.

Romans 8:4-9 says that the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed can they"

Paul said Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness. That is consistent with numerous statements he made.
He did not say the law itself had been abolished, but rather a righteousness/ justification of observing the law had ceased

Rom3:20, rom3:21&22, rom3:28, rom6:14, rom7:4, rom10:4, gal2:19, gal2:21, phil3:9 etc

 

[bugkiller]

There wasn't one. That is why I asked. I'm wondering if I have them on "ignore." So who were you posting to?

stuart lawance

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Paul said Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness. That is consistent with numerous statements he made.
He did not say the law itself had been abolished, but rather a righteousness/ justification of observing the law had ceased

Rom3:20, rom3:21&22, rom3:28, rom6:14, rom7:4, rom10:4, gal2:19, gal2:21, phil3:9 etc

I prefer the "Goal of the Law" as Common English Bible renders it


Albert Barn's commentary brings out this detail.


Romans 10 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
"Is the end of the law" - The word translated “end” means what completes a thing, or renders it perfect; also the boundary, issue, or termination of anything, as the end of life, the result of a prophecy, etc.; John 13:1;Luke 22:37. It also means the design or object which is had in view; the principal purpose for which it was undertaken; 1 Timothy 1:5,” The end of the commandment is charity;” the main design or purpose of the command is to produce love; 1 Peter 1:9, “The end of your faith, the salvation of your souls;” the main design or purpose of faith is to secure salvation; Romans 14:9, “To this end Christ both died,” etc. For this design or purpose. This is doubtless its meaning here. “The main design or object which the perfect obedience of the Law would accomplish, is accomplished by faith in Christ.” That is, perfect obedience to the Law would accomplish justification before God, secure his favor and eternal life. The same end is now accomplished by faith in Christ. "

1 Peter 1:9, “The end of your faith, the salvation of your souls;”

The reason I prefer this meaning for 'end' is that there never was such a thing as people being saved in the OT without Christ - by simply obeying perfectly. From the fall of Adam onward - no such thing. Because "ALL have sinned" Romans 3 ... not just people after the cross - but all mankind before the cross as well.