Leaving Korean churches

[Korean-American Christian]

Praise Jesus!! Praise God from whom all blessings flow!!

Today, I will not be worshiping at Grace Ministries International - the Korean mega-church that I attended until last week.

Today, I will be worshiping at a church of the Nazarene. Praise Jesus!!

I really must leave the Korean Church.

Confucianism has melded with Christianity and the Christian Church in South Korea, rather than competing against it.

Ancestor Worship and Confucianism in Korea

Traditionally - in Korea - ancestor worship has not only been accepted and propagated as a culture, ancestor worship is also considered to be a good way to express filial piety. Korean people think that ancestor worship is a very important expression of filial piety.

Korean Confucianism is the form of Confucianism that emerged and developed in Korea. One of the most substantial influences in Korean intellectual history was the introduction of Confucian thought as part of the cultural influence from China. Today the legacy of Confucianism remains a fundamental part of Korean society, shaping the moral system, the way of life, social relations between older people and younger people. Korean Confucianism is the basis for much of the Korean legal system.

There are a lot of Confucian ideas and practices that still saturate South Korean culture and daily life. The strongest evidences of continuing Confucian influence can be found in South Korean family life. Confucian influence is seen in South Korea’s emphasis on family and group-oriented ways of living.

Teachings of South Korea's Christian Church

The teachings of South Korea's Christian Church regarding filial piety go above and beyond the Biblical teaching that children must honor their parents (Exodus 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:16; Ephesians 6:1-3; 1 Timothy 5:4).

South Korea's Christian Church teaches that children must be in absolute obedience to their parents. South Korea's Christian Church teaches absolute, unquestioning obedience to parents. South Korea's Christian Church teaches that parents have the absolute final authority in all matters with regard to their children, even if their children are fully grown adults.

Confucianism and Implications for the Korean Christian Church

Godly children are those who obey their parents without question. Any and all conflict is suppressed (and denied) in the Korean Christian Church. Parental authority and decisions that parents make are not open to question. Younger people must always obey older leaders at church.

Legalism in Korean churches

Part of my experience and a characteristic of the Korean Church is the strong legalistic culture and tendencies that still dominate many Korean churches today. A fair amount of Christians in the Korean American community are affected by this lack of knowing grace and a self-righteousness that blinds them to being effective in the world today. Self-righteousness makes Christians the poorest examples of their faith and worst enemy of their life's mission.

 

[geiroffenberg]

for what ive known of korean christianity, a lot of the strict parent/children relationship as rule of conduct is a cultural thing rather than a spiritual thing, and it sort of dictates how spiritual living is udnerstood. It may be the same verses we use in other cultures, but the meaning is very different. I hope korean christianity who have blessed the world with very many good things the last decades find a new level of freedom in their spiritual walk.
Children in biblical contest is basically below teen age years. Above that you start to treat them as adults and you do NOT force parental auhtority down their throwts, because that gets into abuse. Should children be obedient, yes as a CHILD - meaning age-wise, there s a point where we stop being children even though we are still the offspirng.... so when children, of course, because the parents is parenting them and the child has no basis for making desicions themselves yet, it could be very dangerous for them. But after bar/bat mitsvah age, they need to be able to run their own lvies mroe and mroe and do msitakes if needs be.
Also koreans: "Discipline" is a fruit of the spirit...thats why the gospel is good news.
Itt's not by might or by power, but by the spirit. Disiplne over the flesh and self, is a GIFT from God, and you miss it as long as you are trying to disiplined! We all need to learn it, but its time for koreans to get into some holy rebellion against legalism, honestly.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

for what ive known of korean christianity, a lot of the strict parent/children relationship as rule of conduct is a cultural thing rather than a spiritual thing, and it sort of dictates how spiritual living is udnerstood. It may be the same verses we use in other cultures, but the meaning is very different. I hope korean christianity who have blessed the world with very many good things the last decades find a new level of freedom in their spiritual walk. "Discipline" is a fruit of the spirit...not by might or by power, but by the spirit. We all need to learn it, but its time for koreans to get into some holy rebellion against legalism, honestly.

The strict/harsh relationships between Korean parents and their children stems from the teachings of Confucianism.

Although Korean Confucianism is a cultural thing rather than a spiritual thing, Korean Confucianism is entrenched in the Korean Christian Church (and all other Korean religions).

I strongly agree with you - Korean Christians must renounce religious legalism

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Today, I will not be worshiping at Grace Ministries International - the Korean mega-church that I attended until last week.

Today, I will be worshiping at a church of the Nazarene. Praise Jesus!!

I really must leave the Korean Church.

Confucianism has melded with Christianity and the Christian Church in South Korea, rather than competing against it.

Ancestor Worship and Confucianism in Korea

Traditionally - in Korea - ancestor worship has not only been accepted and propagated as a culture, ancestor worship is also considered to be a good way to express filial piety. Korean people think that ancestor worship is a very important expression of filial piety.

Korean Confucianism is the form of Confucianism that emerged and developed in Korea. One of the most substantial influences in Korean intellectual history was the introduction of Confucian thought as part of the cultural influence from China. Today the legacy of Confucianism remains a fundamental part of Korean society, shaping the moral system, the way of life, social relations between older people and younger people. Korean Confucianism is the basis for much of the Korean legal system.

There are a lot of Confucian ideas and practices that still saturate South Korean culture and daily life. The strongest evidences of continuing Confucian influence can be found in South Korean family life. Confucian influence is seen in South Korea’s emphasis on family and group-oriented ways of living.

Teachings of South Korea's Christian Church

The teachings of South Korea's Christian Church regarding filial piety go above and beyond the Biblical teaching that children must honor their parents (Exodus 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:16; Ephesians 6:1-3; 1 Timothy 5:4).

South Korea's Christian Church teaches that children must be in absolute obedience to their parents. South Korea's Christian Church teaches absolute, unquestioning obedience to parents. South Korea's Christian Church teaches that parents have the absolute final authority in all matters with regard to their children, even if their children are fully grown adults.

Confucianism and Implications for the Korean Christian Church

Godly children are those who obey their parents without question. Any and all conflict is suppressed (and denied) in the Korean Christian Church. Parental authority and decisions that parents make are not open to question. Younger people must always obey older leaders at church.
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My wife and I attended a 1.5-2 generation Korean church, here in the US, for 6 months, and I could see hints of some of the things you've mentioned above, especially in the parent/child relationships.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The strict/harsh relationships between Korean parents and their children stems from the teachings of Confucianism.

Although Korean Confucianism is a cultural thing rather than a spiritual thing, Korean Confucianism is entrenched in the Korean Christian Church (and all other Korean religions).

I strongly agree with you - Korean Christians must renounce religious legalism
View attachment 193214

I agree about legalism, so I must add that legalism is a problem of ALL people. Even Liberals can be legalistic. It's just about different issues than Conservatives are legalistic about.

Soft, or secondary legalism is the act of adding an extra-biblical test to orthodoxy. In other words, it's saying, "you aren't a Christian if you do X. Or, "you aren't a Christian if you don't do X.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I agree about legalism, so I must add that legalism is a problem of ALL people. Even Liberals can be legalistic. It's just about different issues than Conservatives are legalistic about.

Soft, or secondary legalism is the act of adding an extra-biblical test to orthodoxy. In other words, it's saying, "you aren't a Christian if you do X. Or, "you aren't a Christian if you don't do X.

Overall, what did you think of the local Korean church that you attended? I would love to hear more of your thoughts on your experience.

I agree that legalism is a problem of ALL people. Most of the Christians (and most of the Christian pastors) that I know (from my personal relationships with them) say this on a regular basis: "You aren't a Christian if you do X." "You aren't a Christian if you don'do C"

 

[PropheticTimes]

Praise the Lord and may your new church be all that your spirit craves

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Praise the Lord and may your new church be all that your spirit craves

Thank you so much!!

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Part of my experience and a characteristic of the Korean Church is the strong legalistic culture and tendencies that still dominate many Korean churches today. A fair amount of Christians in the Korean American community are affected by this lack of knowing grace and a self-righteousness that blinds them to being effective in the world today. Self-righteousness makes Christians the poorest examples of their faith and worst enemy of their life's mission.

 

[Hidden In Him]

South Korea's Christian Church teaches that children must be in absolute obedience to their parents. South Korea's Christian Church teaches absolute, unquestioning obedience to parents. South Korea's Christian Church teaches that parents have the absolute final authority in all matters with regard to their children, even if their children are fully grown adults.

Yes. This is a very, very spooky teaching, and essentially enslaves an entire younger generation of Korean believers under the control of men instead of the leading of the Holy Spirit. Even if those men are their parents and love them dearly, any system of theology that divorces the believer from the leadership of the Holy Spirit is dangerous, and to be avoided like the plague. Maybe very young children should not be expected to hear from God themselves, but it's a practice that they should be trained in from as early an age as possible.

I recall once watching a television series about major airplane crashes, and one episode involved a pair of Korean Air pilots who ended up crashing a plane and destroying the lives of hundreds of people. The lead pilot was a decorated war hero and greatly revered. The younger co-pilot saw the mistake he was making, yet because Korean culture said he was not to question his elder, he said nothing, and the plane ended up hitting a mountain or something. I believe that particular air disaster led to modifications in pilot training, so that younger Korean pilots were trained not to be afraid of speaking up when something appeared to be wrong.

Similar disasters will happen in the lives of many young Korean Christians if they are not allowed to question their elders. It is one thing to bide one's time and submit to authority while waiting to be promoted to a position of leadership in the church (1 Peter 5:5-6), but quite another to not be allowed to say anything at all, and have absolutely no say in matters. This is complete exclusionism, not submission, and contrary to God's will.

Reminds me of a very controlling pastor I knew who insisted that his congregation submit to him without question. He was charismatic, so he could get away with it. But his congregation was never taught or encouraged to hear from God themselves but simply to let him tell them what God's will was for their lives.

Dangerous, very dangerous. I wouldn't walk away from such a church. I would run.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Yes. This is a very, very spooky teaching, and essentially enslaves an entire younger generation of Korean believers under the control of men instead of the leading of the Holy Spirit. Even if those men are their parents and love them dearly, any system of theology that divorces the believer from the leadership of the Holy Spirit is dangerous, and to be avoided like the plague. Disasters will happen in the lives of many young Korean Christians if they are not allowed to question their elders. It is one thing to bide one's time and submit to authority while waiting to be promoted to a position of leadership in the church (1 Peter 5:5-6), but quite another to not be allowed to say anything at all, and have absolutely no say in matters. This is complete exclusionism, not submission, and contrary to God's will. Dangerous, very dangerous. I wouldn't walk away from such a church. I would run.

I praise Jesus because He has allowed me to run from the Korean Church (to a Bible-believing non-Korean church).

Absolute, unquestioning obedience to parents and older people is definitely a spooky and very un-Christian teaching that enslaves entire generations of Korean Christians under the control of humans.

"Disasters will happen in the lives of many young Korean Christians if they are not allowed to question their elders"

I agree....disasters will also happen in the lives of many adult Korean Christians if they are not allowed to question older Korean people.

My Korean father still demands that I absolutely obey him without question...despite the fact that I am almost 40 years old.

My father's favorite Bible verses are Ephesians 6:1-3

Many of the teachings of the Korean Christian Church are contrary to God's will

 

[Hidden In Him]

My Korean father still demands that I absolutely obey him without question...despite the fact that I am almost 40 years old. My father's favorite Bible verses are Ephesians 6:1-3.

I feel badly for you. Must be painful, for both you and your father. He's forgetting Ephesians 6:4, in my opinion, which taught that fathers should not provoke their children to anger. One sure way to do this is to give them absolutely no say in their own lives. Even our Lord Himself had to be about His Heavenly Father's business, above that of His earthly father, and that was at the age of 12 (Luke 2:42).

I wish things were different, because I can see how deeply that mentality is probably engrained in your culture. But be encouraged. It is prophesied that days are coming in which the Holy Spirit will be poured out as never before in the earth's history, and when that time comes those who try to maintain control over the church and over individual's lives will see their control crumbling before their eyes. They will either have to give way to the Holy Spirit, or become completely irrelevant to what God is doing in the earth. They will be bypassed, and become an afterthought in the end-time harvest.

This also came to mind after I posted. I recall that one of the big factors that contributed to the allies winning the war on the Western front during World War II was that American units were allowed to be autonomous, meaning they could make decisions on the fly as events warranted. The German units could not act on their own but had to wait on orders from higher up. If Hitler was asleep, he was not to be disturbed, and by the time he was awake to make a decision, the allies had already taken valuable ground because American units were free to take initiative on their own when opportunities presented themselves.

Sounds like you have good head on your shoulders. I think what God is showing you is very important, and you should let Him use you to deliver others from bondage (no other word for it). You can be certain there are plenty of Koreans that are trying to get away from all those things, and they would probably consider even coming to Christ if they thought He would give them freedom. But reinforcing that controlling spirit even stronger just makes many reject Christianity when things could be so much different if they only knew the truth.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I feel badly for you. Must be painful, for both you and your father. He's forgetting Ephesians 6:4, in my opinion, which taught that fathers should not provoke their children to anger. One sure way to do this is to give them absolutely no say in their own lives. Even our Lord Himself had to be about His Heavenly Father's business, above that of His earthly father, and that was at the age of 12 (Luke 2:42).

I wish things were different, because I can see how deeply that mentality is probably engrained in your culture. But be encouraged. It is prophesied that days are coming in which the Holy Spirit will be poured out as never before in the earth's history, and when that time comes those who try to maintain control over the church and over individual's lives will see their control crumbling before their eyes. They will either have to give way to the Holy Spirit, or become completely irrelevant to what God is doing in the earth. They will be bypassed, and become an afterthought in the end-time harvest.

Sounds like you have good head on your shoulders. I think what God is showing you is very important, and you should let Him use you to deliver others from bondage (no other word for it). You can be certain there are plenty of Koreans that are trying to get away from all those things, and they would probably consider even coming to Christ if they thought He would give them freedom. But reinforcing that controlling spirit even stronger just makes many reject Christianity when things could be so much different if they only knew the truth.

Thank you for the Biblical encouragement!!

The fact that my father is a controlling and domineering person is very very painful for both my father and me.

My father's controlling, domineering ways are very very painful to me because I strongly believe that my father is attempting to set himself up as God instead of submitting himself to the true God.

The ironic (?) thing is that my father is an ordained minister (Presbyterian church)....but he NEVER preaches on Ephesians 6:4.

When my father preaches on Ephesians 6:1-3, he ALWAYS SKIPS Ephesians 6:4

My father's controlling, domineering ways are also painful for my father because I choose to turn my back and walk away from him whenever he is verbally abusive to me (He is constantly, frequently verbally abusive to me).

"Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders"

Thank you for the compliment. I pray that God will use me in some way....I pray that God will use me to deliver people from the ungodly, un-Biblical Korean Christian Church

 

[Hidden In Him]

I will pray for you. God can certainly break him, and humble him into seeing the error of his ways. But it will have to be God who does it, so prayer is your best hope for him. He probably will never listen to you, so just be kind to him, while exercising full autonomy over your own life. When he is cruel and abusive to you, treat him with kindness, respect and love, but do NOT obey him unless it is something God Himself is also telling you to do. Obeying him when he is wrong will only reinforce the blindness he is operating under.

Good talking with you, and hope to talk to you again sometime!
Blessings!
HiH

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I will pray for you. God can certainly break him, and humble him into seeing the error of his ways. But it will have to be God who does it, so prayer is your best hope for him. He probably will never listen to you, so just be kind to him, while exercising full autonomy over your own life. When he is cruel and abusive to you, treat him with kindness, respect and love, but do NOT obey him unless it is something God Himself is also telling you to do. Obeying him when he is wrong will only reinforce the blindness he is operating under.

Good talking with you, and hope to talk to you again sometime!
Blessings!
HiH

Your conversation with me has blessed me!! Thank you so much!! Thank you for your prayers!!

I agree that my father will never listen to me....he is 70 years old now and very set in his ways/very rigid.

I will continue to pray for my father

 

[Solomons Porch]

Praise the Lord and may your new church be all that your spirit craves

Amen I agree with PT and hope you find what your spirit is thirsty for

 

[Hidden In Him]

One other thing I thought of that you could do, and especially since he is getting older. Pray for God to show you ways that you could do things for him that would honor him, such as taking care of some chores for him that he can't do otherwise for himself; things that you feel God would have you do for him to honor him as your father, of your own freewill, and not because he told you. This may touch his heart. Just be ready to kindly refuse when he tries to tell you to do things you do not feel are God's will.

This way, he will know that it is not a matter of you being stubborn or willful, but simply a matter of you needing to have control over your own life, and be free to obey God as you see fit.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

One other thing I thought of that you could do, and especially since he is getting older. Pray for God to show you ways that you could do things for him that would honor him, such as taking care of some chores for him that he can't do otherwise for himself; things that you feel God would have you do for him to honor him as your father, of your own freewill, and not because he told you. This may touch his heart. Just be ready to kindly refuse when he tries to tell you to do things you do not feel are God's will.

This way, he will know that it is not a matter of you being stubborn or willful, but simply a matter of you needing to have control over your own life, and be free to obey God as you see fit.

Thank you so much for the thoughtful advice. To be honest, however, at this point in time....there is nothing that I want to do for my father at all.

I believe that my father is trying to force me to "honor" him.

I strongly firmly believe that my father - on a daily basis - attempts to set himself up as the God of our family

This is - most likely - an un-Christian and un-Biblical attitude on my part, but I have zero respect for my verbally abusive, domineering father

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Amen I agree with PT and hope you find what your spirit is thirsty for

Thank you so much!!

 

[Hidden In Him]

This is - most likely - an un-Christian and un-Biblical attitude on my part, but I have zero respect for my verbally abusive, domineering father

I can understand that. Best move is probably to distance yourself from the situation in order to heal. After a while, when you've been able to put the pain and the abuse out of your mind and recover, and he's had time to reflect and heal as well (and maybe miss you), then maybe the two of you can get back to enjoying one another's company again.

Said enough at this point. Your personal business, definitely not mine.