Mohammad in the bible

Status
Not open for further replies.

danny ski

Newbie
Jan 13, 2013
1,867
506
✟34,912.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Private
They say he's HaShem, blessed be his name of Abraham and Jacob, peace be upon them. What's the mainstream Jewish view of this, does HaShem bbhn have any 'begotten' sons? Does He share His Throne with a Holy Spirit and a Son or is this pure blasphemy and Idolatry as we Muslims claim?
Our Gd, just like the Muslim Gd is one, unique, indivisible Gd. As the prophet said " my glory I will not share with another"
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Muslim-UK
Upvote 0

dougangel

Regular
Supporter
May 7, 2012
1,423
238
New Zealand
✟85,556.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
??? I don't care what Jesus claimed regarding deity. Or what he said about the Shabbat or whom he claimed to be. He's your god, not mine. I reject his claims based on our Scriptures, just like you accept them based on yours. And the Muslim individual in this thread sees Jesus through his Scriptures. This is entirely normal and perfectly reasonable.

well at less you conceding that. Our scriptures claim Jesus's deity. Thank you for admitting that.

I reject his claims based on our Scriptures, just like you accept them based on yours.
At least that's honest. Your not accepting my scriptures after a major universal event came from God. This brings me to some questions you might help me with.

Israel was a country with a theocracy in OT times. Are you keeping all the laws and judgments in Torah and how are you keeping them? Where is the national temple and the Levite priests? Do you have a national temple in the country you live?


. I reject his claims based on our Scriptures, just like you accept them based on yours. And the Muslim individual in this thread sees Jesus through his Scriptures. This is entirely normal and perfectly reasonable.

Well No I wouldn't describe it as reasonable. The 3 religions are making quite different truth claims and differences on who gets eternal life. That is quite important.

God bless.
 
Upvote 0

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
406
162
53
✟14,751.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married



well at less you conceding that. Our scriptures claim Jesus's deity. Thank you for admitting that.
He didn't admit anything, on the contrary he made clear it's of no concern to his beliefs.


Well No I wouldn't describe it as reasonable. The 3 religions are making quite different truth claims and differences on who gets eternal life. That is quite important.
He who dies with there is no God but ONE GOD has little to fear.
 
Upvote 0

dougangel

Regular
Supporter
May 7, 2012
1,423
238
New Zealand
✟85,556.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
He didn't admit anything, on the contrary he made clear it's of no concern to his beliefs.

Ok excuse me. Hes gone from claiming Jesus didn't claim to have deity to he doesn't care if Jesus claimed that. that is a little bit of progress.

He who dies with there is no God but ONE GOD has little to fear.
Honestly Muslim - UK. I have to find the humour in this. It actually cracked me up. A muslin is aligning them self with someone Judaism beliefs nice.
He who dies with there is no God but ONE GOD has little to fear.

As you and danny ski have claimed Christ does claim there is a father.
Trying to explain the trinity to you.
Water, Ice, steam, are all forms of Water
There is One God but different forms of God. The father, the son the holy spirit.
Jesus was sinless perfect from God. That is he was a physical manifestation of God on earth with limitations of the flesh.
No one else can claim that.

God Bless
 
Upvote 0

danny ski

Newbie
Jan 13, 2013
1,867
506
✟34,912.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Private
well at less you conceding that. Our scriptures claim Jesus's deity. Thank you for admitting that.


At least that's honest. Your not accepting my scriptures after a major universal event came from God. This brings me to some questions you might help me with.

Israel was a country with a theocracy in OT times. Are you keeping all the laws and judgments in Torah and how are you keeping them? Where is the national temple and the Levite priests? Do you have a national temple in the country you live?




Well No I wouldn't describe it as reasonable. The 3 religions are making quite different truth claims and differences on who gets eternal life. That is quite important.

God bless.
We keep what is possible.
The 3 religions are making quite different truth claims and differences on who gets eternal life.
I make no claims who gets an eternal life. As a matter of fact, I believe that the righteous of all nations will earn a portion in the world to come. If it was any other way, I would never stay with my religion.
 
Upvote 0

4x4toy

Newbie
Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
3,599
1,773
✟116,025.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Who do the Jews say performed the last miracle of God , what miracle did Muhammad perform ? Yet born-again Christians receive miracles since Jesus .. Jesus is God , only God can beget God , the Holy Spirit is God, all 3 the same one God .. Muhammad had no clue as to his eternal destination and without being born-again through faith in Jesus it ain't looking good for him . The non believing Jews either if Jesus blood remain on their hands .. If you do not receive the Son who died a brutal death at our hands , why in the world could you even think the Father could receive you .. Because some nut dreamed different ? I mean no offense at all to anyone .. Just a plea to consider all things
 
Upvote 0

Aryeh Jay

Gone and hopefully forgotten.
Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
15,312
14,321
MI - Michigan
✟498,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Honestly Muslim - UK. I have to find the humour in this. It actually cracked me up. A muslin is aligning them self with someone Judaism beliefs nice.

Why is that humorous?
 
Upvote 0

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
406
162
53
✟14,751.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Why is that humorous?
He might be referring to the small print. Technically anyone who dies sincerely believing, 'GOD is ONE' and worships him will be admitted into Paradise.

The small print says, you have to submit your will to GOD and accept everything he sent, his revelation, Torah, Zaboor, Injeel and Qur'an. You have to accept all his Messengers from Adam to Muhammad pbut. Allah swt says, he will settle and judge disputes between the various religions on the day of Resurrection. People will enter Hell fire, but ultimately, anyone with even a mustard seeds worth of faith will be saved.

Everyone accepts the Prophets of the OT, so that's one off the check list.

There is great confusion over who Jesus pbuh is said to be, and the Church presents a triune God, so Jews and Muslims have a right to be confused and reject such a message.

So really it's the message of the Qur'an, and there Jews judge everything by the Torah, that's just how hey are and of course Allah swt knows that. Also hell in Judaism is presented as a temporary place of gloom, as opposed to a boiling cauldron of fire, so why should they try too hard.

Christians also reject the Qur'an as Allah swt has no son, nor will he ever have, and so in my view they definitely draw the short straw. But amongst them are Unitarians who worship GOD alone, so they should be fine, insha'Allah (God willing) and I also believe the majority of Christians are ignorant of what their belief actually means in the sight of GOD, so again they should be fine.

I won't go on as otherwise it'll turn into a Friday Khutbah, (sermon).

And Allahu alim, GOD knows best.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aryeh Jay
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Robban

-----------
Supporter
Dec 27, 2009
11,311
3,057
✟626,034.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Divorced
QUOTE="Muslim-UK, post: 71000458, member: 381353"]He might be referring to the small print. Technically anyone who dies sincerely believing, 'GOD is ONE' and worships him will be admitted into Paradise.

The small print says, you have to submit your will to GOD and accept everything he sent, his revelation, Torah, Zaboor, Injeel and Qur'an. You have to accept all his Messengers from Adam to Muhammad pbut. Allah swt says, he will settle and judge disputes between the various religions on the day of Resurrection. People will enter Hell fire, but ultimately, anyone with even a mustard seeds worth of faith will be saved.

Everyone accepts the Prophets of the OT, so that's one off the check list.

There is great confusion over who Jesus pbuh is said to be, and the Church presents a triune God, so Jews and Muslims have a right to be confused and reject such a message.

So really it's the message of the Qur'an, and there Jews judge everything by the Torah, that's just how hey are and of course Allah swt knows that. Also hell in Judaism is presented as a temporary place of gloom, as opposed to a boiling cauldron of fire, so why should they try too hard.

Christians also reject the Qur'an as Allah swt has no son, nor will he ever have, and so in my view they definitely draw the short straw. But amongst them are Unitarians who worship GOD alone, so they should be fine, insha'Allah (God willing) and I also believe the majority of Christians are ignorant of what their belief actually means in the sight of GOD, so again they should be fine.

I won't go on as otherwise it'll turn into a Friday Khutbah, (sermon).

And Allahu alim, GOD knows best.[/QUOTE]

I do not think those who call themselves Christians but are ignorant of what their belief means will be fine.
They were not born Christian, it is a label they have taken.
Therefore they should know or they will be held accountable.

It is not so easy,
I tell you, if not for the grace of God, I would have seriously injured some.
Some behave like pigs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muslim-UK
Upvote 0

dougangel

Regular
Supporter
May 7, 2012
1,423
238
New Zealand
✟85,556.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Surely I do not.

Ok well a Christian and Muslin and someone with Jewish beliefs is having an amicable debate and sharing beliefs. At the moment the muslin is teamed up with Judaism. I find that funny. It might be just me but there you go.
 
Upvote 0

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
406
162
53
✟14,751.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Ok well a Christian and Muslin and someone with Jewish beliefs is having an amicable debate and sharing beliefs. At the moment the muslin is teamed up with Judaism. I find that funny. It might be just me but there you go.
The truth is, if you put Politics aside, the 2 faiths are very difficult to tell apart. Same prayer style, dietary laws, dressing modestly, fasting, and most important of all, concept of GOD.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mediaeval

baptizatus sum
Sep 24, 2012
857
185
✟29,873.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Yes 20:28, It's covered in post 84 here Mohammad in the bible
Typing 9:38 and 20:28 in the “Quick Lookup” at NT Transcripts - INTF gives these partial results from the 28th edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament:

John 9:38
Not Present in 019 1 18 33 105 565 892 1241
Present in P66 P75 01 02 03 05 NA28NS sa 1 sa 10 sa 102 sa 103 sa 108 sa 125 sa 126 sa 127 sa 134 sa 136 sa 142 sa 174 sa 218 sa 285 sa 4 sa 5 sa 9

John 20:28
Not Present in 019 041 1 18 33 565 892 1241 sa 143
Present in P66 01 02 03 0309 04 05 NA28NS sa 1 sa 10 sa 103 sa 106 sa 115 sa 116 sa 14L sa 15L sa 168 sa 182 sa 335L sa 336L sa 342L sa 369 sa 4 sa 5 sa 66 sa 9

The speaker in the video about these two verses criticized scholarly speculation, but he himself engaged in speculation quite freely, fabricating his own version of events. But textual omissions or additions are not automatically sinister. Copyists sometimes left things out accidentally. Their mistakes could be repeated and only later corrected. In such cases, correction is a good thing. It is not the same as tampering with the text. The video also tried to make it sound like John 9:38 was unique in showing our Lord's being worshipped, but John 9:38 is not the only such verse in the New Testament where He is worshipped. In any case, there is no dispute over the inclusion of John 9:38 and 20:28 in the Bible. The two verses are widely attested, and both my critical editions of the New Testament (UBS and Nestle-Aland) include them as part of the main text, supported by Greek manuscripts, ancient translations, and patristic quotations. Even Ehrman and the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not dispute John 20:28.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Muslim-UK
Upvote 0

Aryeh Jay

Gone and hopefully forgotten.
Supporter
Jul 19, 2012
15,312
14,321
MI - Michigan
✟498,114.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Ok well a Christian and Muslin and someone with Jewish beliefs is having an amicable debate and sharing beliefs. At the moment the muslin is teamed up with Judaism. I find that funny. It might be just me but there you go.

Muslims and Jews have lived in relative peace for hundreds of years and Islam and Judaism have the same idea of the oneness of God.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Muslim-UK
Upvote 0

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
406
162
53
✟14,751.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
I do not think those who call themselves Christians but are ignorant of what their belief means will be fine.
They were not born Christian, it is a label they have taken.
Therefore they should know or they will be held accountable.

It is not so easy,
I tell you, if not for the grace of God, I would have seriously injured some.
Some behave like pigs.
Growing secularism means Religion is becoming more and more something you keep to yourself. People are embarrassed to talk about things like the afterlife for fear of being ridiculed. In such an environment, most people are followers of their faith in little more than name alone. The World has allowed itself to be deceived, and soon the Almighty's patience will run out. We'll all forget our differences when that day arrives.
 
Upvote 0

Mediaeval

baptizatus sum
Sep 24, 2012
857
185
✟29,873.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Could be a simple mistranslated word. As for Etmak sounding nothing like Ahmed, what about Emeth....

Christians also say machamaddim in SOS 5:16 is nothing like Muhammadim

5:16: “His mouth is full of sweetness. And he is wholly desirable (machamaddim). This is my beloved and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.”

But when you listen to a Jewish Rabbi:



Jesus pbuh said a 'Spirit of Truth' would come.
When we look at the Hebrew words that would have been used for “spirit of Truth” in Strong's concordance, we get

Spirit in Hebrew Strong's Hebrew: 7308. ר֫וּחַ (ruach) -- wind, spirit is ruach

Truth in Hebrew Strong's Hebrew: 571. אֱמֶת (emeth) -- firmness, faithfulness, truth is emeth Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-meth)

Who is the Spirit called “Eh meth” who is in heaven that was mentioned by Christ that can only come after Christ is raised to heaven?

The spirit who will testify about Christ was obviously a man named eh'-meth and not an invisible spirit, that was to reveal what the disciples were not ready to hear from Christ himself at that time, for Christ said I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it.

After 2000 years, Christians who believed it was only a spirit have divided themselves into more than 45,000 Christian denominations, each claiming they alone are guided by the “Spirit of Truth”. Which is pretty absurd as no Spirit of Truth could mislead us to divide in this manner.

Christ further tells us in Matthew 23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Meaning Christ will only return after his followers will be praising this man/advocate/comforter and he will preach In the name of God

So the question arises who was this man, who spoke “in the name of God”?

And when we search for him in the Torah, we do find him mentioned in Isaiah 42:1 as Et mak translated as

Isaiah 42:1 Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex
הֵ֤ן עַבְדִּי֙ אֶתְמָךְ־ בֹּ֔ו בְּחִירִ֖י רָצְתָ֣ה נַפְשִׁ֑י נָתַ֤תִּי רוּחִי֙ עָלָ֔יו מִשְׁפָּ֖ט לַגֹּויִ֥ם יֹוצִֽיא׃

hên ‘aḇ-dî ’eṯ-māḵ- bōw, bə-ḥî-rî nap̄-šî; nā-ṯat-tî rū-ḥî ‘ā-lāw, miš-pāṭ lag-gō-w-yim yō-w-ṣî.


King James Bible 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

New International Version 42:1 "Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

See the image, when translated as a name, in the OP >>> Ahmad


And when we search for him in the Quran, revealed 600 years after Christ had been raised to heaven, we find ….


*Ahmad is mentioned in verse (61:6) of the Quran, which reads In the name of God (in every beginning of a chapter) and says

“And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

History shows a man names Ahmad pbuh rose from the land of Kedar and sang a New Song.
On finding “Ahmad” in Isaiah 42, it should not escape notice that your Muslim source deceptively altered the Hebrew text to fit his preconceived Islamic agenda when he changed the original “etmak” to “ahmad.” There is no evidence that Bible has been corrupted and its message lost. But here is a Muslim who deliberately engaged in the textual corruption of the Bible and tried to pass it off as Divine truth. What kind of taqiyya taqtic is that? “Emeth” doesn’t work either, but at least it is real Hebrew word. It is a feminine noun, and it is entirely absent from the text in question, 42:1. The word also does not appear to be related to the triliteral Hebrew root TMK, which is found in 42:1.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: dougangel
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
406
162
53
✟14,751.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
On finding “Ahmad” in Isaiah 42, it should not escape notice that your Muslim source deceptively altered the Hebrew text to fit his preconceived Islamic agenda when he changed the original “etmak” to “ahmad.” There is no evidence that Bible has been corrupted and its message lost. But here is a Muslim who deliberately engaged in the textual corruption of the Bible and tried to pass it off as Divine truth. What kind of taqiyya taqtic is that? “Emeth” doesn’t work either, but at least it is real Hebrew word. It is a feminine noun, and it is entirely absent from the text in question, 42:1. The word also does not appear to be related to the triliteral Hebrew root TMK, which is found in 42:1.
No deception if you go back and read carefully. In bold it states on the jpeg 'Did the translators bungled it', then lays out the case. Anyway, it's been decided we all go to heaven, except those who are misguided, so no need to tip the karma of the thread. Actually looking back, I do need to quote and correct you on something. I'll do that soon, insha'Allah.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.