Youth Leader wearing revealing attire

[Paidiske]

Well, I don't know what part the OP played in the scenario. The way I've read it, it sounded like a group of adults floundering as to what to do.

And to be honest, I don't think it was that much of an emergency. No one was dying, injured, or at risk. Yes, there was someone inappropriately dressed. But the harm from the situation was almost certainly minimal. Waiting five minutes to handle it discreetly would probably have meant many of the kids were less likely to even notice. I think language of "perpetrator" is far too strong under the circumstances.

I'm second-guessing, yes, but the OP came here asking for advice. My advice is, recognise that blame for this situation is shared more widely than just the youth leader, review communications and policies, and seek to restore the youth leader gently and with care.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

And to be honest, I don't think it was that much of an emergency.

That only demonstrates how immodest the world has become.

I'm second-guessing, yes, but the OP came here asking for advice.

Fair enough.

 

[Cearbhall]

Quite to our surprise this particular leader obeyed in wearing a one piece but it was a thong in the back and extremely revealing so as to call unwanted attention and stumbling for the males and questions from the girls. She defended herself by stating she wasn't doing anything we weren't told to do which seemed like sliding by the rules because of lack of specifics.

It seems like you set an arbitrary rule and are surprised that someone interpreted it in a slightly different way than you. I mean, you're essentially saying that you're perfectly ok with a certain amount of buttcheek, but not as much as she was showing. How was she supposed to know that? That's not a question I would ask. And if you can't explain why you're ok with a certain number of inches of buttcheek but not an inch more, then you have to accept that she was probably also drawing the line at a place that she thought was reasonable. It was just slightly different than what you had in mind.

She's right, she wasn't going against the rules, and I don't see any reason to think she was trying to get around them, unless you think she went out and bought a new swimsuit for the occasion! Now you know exactly how to change the rules in the future to better reflect and communicate what you want to see. It's your job to make sure the rules are accurate and honest, not hers. It was a learning experience for both you and her.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Pros and cons, if in general shes good then continue. We're all human.

 

[pdudgeon]

one last input...

does your church pastor ever talk about situations like this, and train all church personnel on how to avoid compromising situations in public?
perhaps that should be done in the New Year, so that everyone is on the same page.

 

[Radrook]

Why in the world an untrained, and unqualified young woman is "leading" your children is beyond me.

The church, and her children, are to be lead by godly men, not young women.

Sometimes a person retains such a leadership opposition even after being reported and having eyewitness testimony to back it up. It's as if the person in charge of appointing such individuals has an evaluation system completely warped by considerations of lesser spiritual value. Such an attitude can lead to the offended persons leaving the church, the denomination involved or Christianity itself..

 

[Ffraid]

Which brings me back around to my first point; who thought this was a great activity anyway?

The £200K question.

 

[Kayla37]

I understand that expecting someone to not wear a thong was an "assumption". For those of you that keep mentioning that, it has not happened before. We never thought about it. I don't know if that's a trend nowadays with these young people but from what we've gotten to know of this young lady we didn't expect such immodesty, especially at this kind of event because of what scripture says. Is this kind of dress normal for some of you? Maybe that's why it seems I'm overreacting. I don't know. And for those that continue to ask about who's idea the event was, I feel that question is completely irrelevant. First of all I had stated in the original post that it is an annual event for our youth and has been for 10 years. Secondly it'd be foolish to cancel such an event because we're in fear of a youth leader wearing extremely immodest swimwear. Like I said, we never even thought about it. It seemed completely out of her character.

 

[Cearbhall]

Why in the world an untrained, and unqualified young woman is "leading" your children is beyond me.

I was leading a troop of younger kids at Bible School when I was 9...

 

[Kayla37]

But frankly we were most concerned at how she reacted as well when I told her that the suit was inappropriate. We had never had problems with her in the past but she acted very immaturely. Rolling her eyes, looking at some of the girls in the youth as if wishing them to chime in. And finally leaving the event immediately without resolution. It was just very disrespectful. We will have a meeting again after the break though to discuss her future here with us. Recently she has not contacted us back. One of our female leaders has reached out to her and she has not desired to contact us back but said she expects to return after the break.

 

[EmmaCat]

We recently hired a new youth leader to our team a few months ago. She has been a believer for 6 years and seems to have zeal for her pursuit of the Lord and in time has formed great relationships with the girls in our group. Recently we had an annual indoor heated pool event for our youth group. The males are required to wear at least a tank top and the girls have to wear at least a one piece or a dark shirt over a two piece. The same rules obviously apply to the leaders. Quite to our surprise this particular leader obeyed in wearing a one piece but it was a thong in the back and extremely revealing so as to call unwanted attention and stumbling for the males and questions from the girls. She defended herself by stating she wasn't doing anything we weren't told to do which seemed like sliding by the rules because of lack of specifics. She doesn't seem to think her actions were wrong and unfortunately it seems we may have to remove her as a leader all because of this incident which will affect the girls she has already bonded with. We want to approach this situation with grace but at the same time truth and we don't wish for this to turn into a bigger situation than it needed to be. Unfortunately there is no excuse for someone in her position of leadership to wear such attire around people she is supposed to be ministering to and defending herself in such a subtly sneakyway if I may add. It came way out of left field and we just want to do what is right in God's eyes regarding her future here withus. Any advice?

This is very inappropriate attire and she definitely went against the rules by revealing her buttocks. I Googled "thong" and got enough images to understand what that is.

That's disgusting in this scenario among children within a church and a Christian setting. It sends the wrong message and she needs to be spoken to kindly but firmly, and removed from her position among children until she can learn to use better judgement and understand that rules apply to everyone, including her.

She also needs prayer, because anyone who would expose buttocks around children has other issues going on, and perhaps maybe deeper problems than just trying to look good.

This is uncalled for and just wrong, and the pastor needs to get to the root of her desire to expose herself to children in that manner, and perhaps suggest counselling.

All good things
Emmy

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Here's the thing, even if who "innocently" did this, she still should be cut loose, because she obviously lacks the proper cultural compass.

 

[gordonhooker]

Good question. Timothy was considered a youth, but we don't know how long he had been in the Lord. There are also people who have been in the Lord many years yet remain immature because they do not obey the Lord. The quote from the Bible I used lists qualifications.

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

As you can see I underlined the positive and used italics for the negatives. Maturity in Christ is known by behavior. The behavior of this young lady indicates immaturity. Humility is another point of maturity. Instead of realizing her dress was inappropriate, she justified herself.

As for a number of years, I would average 10 years or more in Christ as prerequisite for leadership. Of course, the Holy Spirit should be the one who decides on leadership.

I would suggest that youth group leadership would be the role of junior rather then a bishop, so the comparison is a bit far fetched.

I would speak to the young lady if she listens and changes her ways then keep her on.

 

[Paidiske]

Is this kind of dress normal for some of you? Maybe that's why it seems I'm overreacting.

Not something I'd ever wear, but something "normal" enough in our culture that I wouldn't be astonished that a young woman might not have thought twice about it.

And yes, she should have thought twice, but did none of us ever make stupid mistakes when we were young...?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Not something I'd ever wear, but something "normal" enough in our culture that I wouldn't be astonished that a young woman might not have thought twice about it.

And yes, she should have thought twice, but did none of us ever make stupid mistakes when we were young...?

Stupid mistakes, when exposed, are met with a blush. . .

 

[pdudgeon]

But frankly we were most concerned at how she reacted as well when I told her that the suit was inappropriate. We had never had problems with her in the past but she acted very immaturely. Rolling her eyes, looking at some of the girls in the youth as if wishing them to chime in. And finally leaving the event immediately without resolution. It was just very disrespectful. We will have a meeting again after the break though to discuss her future here with us. Recently she has not contacted us back. One of our female leaders has reached out to her and she has not desired to contact us back but said she expects to return after the break.

well, now you know.
and now we also get more of the picture, which in turn helps us to understand your reaction here, and your reluctance to rceive criticisim or input into the situation because you are personally invested in the outcome.

so the next time you have a swim party, what if anything will you do differently?

 

[pdudgeon]

But frankly we were most concerned at how she reacted as well when I told her that the suit was inappropriate. We had never had problems with her in the past but she acted very immaturely. Rolling her eyes, looking at some of the girls in the youth as if wishing them to chime in. And finally leaving the event immediately without resolution. It was just very disrespectful. We will have a meeting again after the break though to discuss her future here with us. Recently she has not contacted us back. One of our female leaders has reached out to her and she has not desired to contact us back but said she expects to return after the break.

so now we understand partly why you are so concerned about this incident;
you were the one who called her out in public before those whom she supervised.
you are the one she would not respond to,
and you were the one who was disrespected.

the point here is never challenge the leadership of another person in public with an audience of their piers in attendance, unless you know the outcome in advance and have a fool proof plan to execute it.

unfortunately instead of resolving the incident quietly it blew up into a confrontation, and both of you lost face as a result.
I'm sorry that it happpened that way, i really am.

at this point probably the best thing to do is to use the break time to cool down and let the incident rest.
You've both made your points, and there's nothing more to be gained by stretching this dispute out.

 

[AlexDTX]

I would suggest that youth group leadership would be the role of junior rather then a bishop, so the comparison is a bit far fetched.

I would speak to the young lady if she listens and changes her ways then keep her on.

This is just additional food for thought. The whole concept of a youth ministry is barely a hundred years old. Prior to the 20th century there was no youth ministry. The youth ministry is a product of child labor laws. Before that time children always joined the adults in worship and bible study.

In the early 1900's the industrial revolution brought many children and teenagers into the work force. Jobs were scarce and the work for adults were being taken by the teens. Child labor laws were made prohibiting the youth from working so the adults could have the jobs. The church followed suit and recognized a new class of people called youths and began special ministries to cater to them. As I said earlier, prior to the 20th century there were no youths. Teens were regarded as adults. The Jews, of course, recognized their accountability to God with bar and bat mitzvahs. Catholics also recognized the age with confirmations. Protestants have mucked it up by seeing them still as youth.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is just additional food for thought. The whole concept of a youth ministry is barely a hundred years old. Prior to the 20th century there was no youth ministry. The youth ministry is a product of child labor laws. Before that time children always joined the adults in worship and bible study.

In the early 1900's the industrial revolution brought many children and teenagers into the work force. Jobs were scarce and the work for adults were being taken by the teens. Child labor laws were made prohibiting the youth from working so the adults could have the jobs. The church followed suit and recognized a new class of people called youths and began special ministries to cater to them. As I said earlier, prior to the 20th century there were no youths. Teens were regarded as adults. The Jews, of course, recognized their accountability to God with bar and bat mitzvahs. Catholics also recognized the age with confirmations. Protestants have mucked it up by seeing them still as youth.

Yes, that people is worse than seeing the girls backside.

So called, "youth ministry" isn't helpful to the church or the youth. Rather than being assimilated into the body of believers, they often stay segregated on Sunday. Then they go off to college and are part of a "campus ministry".

By the time they do join the church (if they do), they are not prepared for life or being a member of the body, so they join churches which make no demands of them, where church service is nothing more than a concert followed by an affirming talk.

Children should be incorporated into the life of the local church rather than remain segregated.

 

[Paidiske]

Surely it depends how you do it?

When I was doing youth ministry, the kids were in church with the adults on Sunday morning. But they had their own stuff on Friday nights (which is not that different to adults having small groups on other nights of the week, really, except that we geared the teaching to their level).