Lots

[gadar perets]

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from YHWH.​

Lots were cast to determine a replacement for Judas Iscariot.

Do you believe castings lots is an acceptable way to determine Yahweh's will in our day? If so, do you believe it depends on the subject matter/question? If your answer is no, please explain why not.

Some examples of questions:

Can I cast lots to know if the Almighty wants me to become a missionary to Africa?
Can I cast lots to know if the Almighty wants me to marry a particular person?
Can I cast lots to know which Bible book I should read next?
Can I cast lots to choose which Presidential nominee I should vote for?

 

[Winken]

"Casting lots" replace praying? I pray throughout the day, not in bowing or prostrating myself, or hands uplifted, but just as I move along. Even the prayers come from Him. I just respond to His guidance.

 

[gadar perets]

"Casting lots" replace praying? I pray throughout the day, not in bowing or prostrating myself, or hands uplifted, but just as I move along. Even the prayers come from Him. I just respond to His guidance.

In Acts 1:16-26, the disciples narrowed down their choice for a 12th Apostle to replace Judas. They then prayed to Yahweh that He would show them which of the two He desired to replace Judas. They cast lots believing that Yahweh would reveal His will in that manner. Prayer and casting lots worked together.

 

[visionary]

Is this like "flipping" a coin to see which way to go?

 

[gadar perets]

Is this like "flipping" a coin to see which way to go?

Seriously? Do you not see the Biblical principle involved? Were the Apostles relying on luck when they cast lots?

 

[Lulav]

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from YHWH.​

Lots were cast to determine a replacement for Judas Iscariot.

Do you believe castings lots is an acceptable way to determine Yahweh's will in our day? If so, do you believe it depends on the subject matter/question? If your answer is no, please explain why not.

Some examples of questions:

Can I cast lots to know if the Almighty wants me to become a missionary to Africa?
Can I cast lots to know if the Almighty wants me to marry a particular person?
Can I cast lots to know which Bible book I should read next?
Can I cast lots to choose which Presidential nominee I should vote for?

I think the reference from Proverbs as well as the basis for the replacement for Judah was taken from the Urim and Thurim which were held in the High Priests ephod.

I think this is your main question

Can I cast lots to know if the Almighty wants me to marry a particular person?
​

You 'can' but the questions should be, 'should you'?

And what comes to mind is what Paul said at that time he believed that Yeshua was coming back right away, it is better to remain single. Focus on the L-RD and what you can do for him in these last days.

 

[gadar perets]

I think the reference from Proverbs as well as the basis for the replacement for Judah was taken from the Urim and Thurim which were held in the High Priests ephod.

I think this is your main question

Can I cast lots to know if the Almighty wants me to marry a particular person?
​

You 'can' but the questions should be, 'should you'?

And what comes to mind is what Paul said at that time he believed that Yeshua was coming back right away, it is better to remain single. Focus on the L-RD and what you can do for him in these last days.

I disagree about the Urim and Thummim comment. Lots were cast by Aaron even though he wore the Urim and Thummim (Leviticis 16:8). Lots were also cast at Yahweh's command to determine which allotment of land each tribe would get (Numbers 26:55; Joshua 18:6-11). This took place while Israel still had the Urim and Thummim.

Actually, my main question was, "Do you believe castings lots is an acceptable way to determine Yahweh's will in our day?"
The other questions were examples. The question about which Bible books to read via casting lots is how our congregation recently decided to deal with that matter in order to avoid contention (Proverbs 18:18) and know without a doubt what Yahweh wanted us to do.

The marriage question was for all, not just for me. Perhaps, if a man casts lots to determine Yahweh's will before he became seriously attached to a woman and marries her, there would be less divorces among believers. A simple prayer like, "Father Yahweh, please make your will known to me via casting these lots whether or not you would have me pursue a relationship with ..."

 

[Winken]

In Acts 1:16-26, the disciples narrowed down their choice for a 12th Apostle to replace Judas. They then prayed to Yahweh that He would show them which of the two He desired to replace Judas. They cast lots believing that Yahweh would reveal His will in that manner. Prayer and casting lots worked together.

My apology. I don't clearly understand Messianic Judaism, and therefore should not have commented.

 

[gadar perets]

My apology. I don't clearly understand Messianic Judaism, and therefore should not have commented.

No problem. Casting lots is not a Messianic Judaism thing, but a Biblical thing. We should all be seeking greater understanding in Biblical things.

 

[Lulav]

I disagree about the Urim and Thummim comment. Lots were cast by Aaron even though he wore the Urim and Thummim (Leviticis 16:8). Lots were also cast at Yahweh's command to determine which allotment of land each tribe would get (Numbers 26:55; Joshua 18:6-11). This took place while Israel still had the Urim and Thummim.

I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense to me, can you reword it?

"Lots were cast by Aaron even though he wore the Urim and Thummim"


The high Priest wore the breastplate which was a square formed by a folded over rectangle. this fold made a pocket and that is where the Urim and Thummim were put. It was not part of the Breastplate, but was worn inside it, close to Aarons heart, as commanded.

Yes, they were used for the land divisions and also during Nehemiah's' time when determining the true Levites and the other tribes that came back from the exile. It seems that Josephus had stated they were in existence until about 200 years before he was born.

From the JVL

From the use of the verbs hippil and nilkad in connection with the Urim (verses 41–42), it appears that they were a kind of lot ((marked) stones or sticks?), since these verbs occur in connection with the casting of lots (Isa. 34:17; I Sam. 10:20). They were suitable for indicating which of two alternatives was right; hence inquiries to be decided by them were designed to elicit "yes" or "no" answers (I Sam. 23:10–12;30:8).

 

[visionary]

How would the lot answer, if "neither" is God's answer?

 

[Lulav]

How would the lot answer, if neither is God's answer?

 

[visionary]

"neither" is God's answer makes any "lot" choice wrong.

 

[Lulav]

OK, I thought you might have meant something like that but I don't think neither was a choice.

 

[gadar perets]

I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense to me, can you reword it?

"Lots were cast by Aaron even though he wore the Urim and Thummim"


The high Priest wore the breastplate which was a square formed by a folded over rectangle. this fold made a pocket and that is where the Urim and Thummim were put. It was not part of the Breastplate, but was worn inside it, close to Aarons heart, as commanded.

I probably should have used "bore" or "used" instead of "wore". The point is, lots were used even in Aaron's day. They were not a later substitute for the Urim and Thummim.

 

[gadar perets]

How would the lot answer, if "neither" is God's answer?

Apply your question to the choice of Matthias to replace Judas and tell me what you come up with.

 

[visionary]

OK, I thought you might have meant something like that but I don't think neither was a choice.

Here is the bottom line, unless God picked the two from which to choose, both answers could be wrong choices. Not every question has only two choices for answers.

 

[visionary]

Apply your question to the choice of Matthias to replace Judas and tell me what you come up with.

Paul

 

[gadar perets]

Paul

I was not asking you for a third choice. The Apostles made two choices. Surely they knew that it was a possibility that neither choice was acceptable to Yahweh. Even though "neither" was a possibility, they still chose to cast lots. Therefore, even though "neither" is a possibility for us today, that should not hinder us from casting lots. If "neither" is a possibility, it is simple enough to add a third lot designated "neither". If that lot is chosen, then we prayerfully seek Yahweh's guidance to provide other options.

As for Paul, while being as great as any of the other Apostles, he did not fit the criteria of Acts 1:21-22;

"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Master Yeshua went in and out among us-- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."​

 

[visionary]

Not much is mentioned as to where Paul was during Yeshua's life. Could be he was an observer from the other side of the fence.