Tax

[Goodbook]

what is actually a fair tax. Should christians have to pay tithe on top of tax? Isnt tithing a form of tax, so if someones paying tithe and tax both isnt that a fair chunk of someomes wage?

What is your tax rate in your country and what percentage are you paying? Does your govt put taxes on everything?

And do these taxes get used for the welfare of everyone or do you think its wasted or spent on luxuries?

I'd like to know. And is it christian to avoid paying tax. Or maybe you can never avoid it?

 

[RDKirk]

what is actually a fair tax. Should christians have to pay tithe on top of tax? Isnt tithing a form of tax, so if someones paying tithe and tax both isnt that a fair chunk of someomes wage?

What is your tax rate in your country and what percentage are you paying? Does your govt put taxes on everything?

And do these taxes get used for the welfare of everyone or do you think its wasted or spent on luxuries?

I'd like to know. And is it christian to avoid paying tax. Or maybe you can never avoid it?

What Caesar has taken is never a concern as a Christian contemplates meeting the needs of other Christians.

Old Testament tithing only involved what a person had on hand when the tithe day occurred:

Every tithe of the herd and flock--every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod--will be holy to the LORD. -- Leviticus 27

Two things clear in that passage: There is no calculation of what "should be" or "may be later" or "was a month ago." The farmer may have lost animals from wolves or sickness or the king's taxes. When it was time to set aside the tithe animal, the farmer passed his animals under the counting rod and took the tenth animal.

Note also that it was the tenth animal chosen, not the first. if the farmer was so poor as to have only one animal...he did not tithe an animal. If a preacher says "tithe off the top," he's flat out lying to you.

The next verse says:

No one may pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If anyone does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.

Passing the animals under the counting rod was a randomized selection. The tithe animal was whichever tenth animal passed under the rod. The farmer was not to select any different animal, either better or worse. Any preacher who says "tithe the best" is flat out lying to you.

That is, if tithing were for Christians at all...which it isn't.

 

[RDKirk]

what is actually a fair tax. Should christians have to pay tithe on top of tax? Isnt tithing a form of tax, so if someones paying tithe and tax both isnt that a fair chunk of someomes wage?

What is your tax rate in your country and what percentage are you paying? Does your govt put taxes on everything?

And do these taxes get used for the welfare of everyone or do you think its wasted or spent on luxuries?

I'd like to know. And is it christian to avoid paying tax. Or maybe you can never avoid it?

A Christian should pay the tax levied by the king. There is no place whatsoever in all of scripture that indicates a believer should not pay the taxes levied by the king. I would argue that the king's tax is the God-decreed penalty for men wanting kings instead of Him. Or at least, He explicitly stated taxes were the consequence of human government, and I don't think there is a way to do something and escape what He has explicitly stated was a consequence of that action.

In scripture there is one example of a tax rebellion...and that did not end well.

 

[RDKirk]

Tithing was taught to Joseph by the Lord before he entered Egypt to explain to the King of Egypt that there would be a severe drought coming. The Lord told the King through Joseph to take a tenth of the grain and store it so during the drought they would have plenty of food to eat. This was God's plan to get the King of Egypt to accept Joseph and his Israelite family members into their kingdom where they became enslaved to the Egyptian way of life for 400 years to set up a symbolic story that those in Christ would understand. The story of Moses in the book of Exodus is the symbolic story that all us in Christ get to understand about the future.

Now you're calling everything "tithing" and the word ceases to have a meaning. In fact, "taking a tenth" is at least as old as the Law of Hammurabi, which was the law of the land known to Abraham. I believe it's in section 66 (maybe section 62) of that law.

 

[Uber Genius]

what is actually a fair tax. Should christians have to pay tithe on top of tax? Isnt tithing a form of tax, so if someones paying tithe and tax both isnt that a fair chunk of someomes wage?

What is your tax rate in your country and what percentage are you paying? Does your govt put taxes on everything?

And do these taxes get used for the welfare of everyone or do you think its wasted or spent on luxuries?

I'd like to know. And is it christian to avoid paying tax. Or maybe you can never avoid it?

Too big a scope.

Tithing is controversial as it doesn't appear in the NT and is replaced by a broader stewardship. Remember then Temple and the priests and costs to maintain those went away in 70A.D. But the tithe is replaced long before that with a call to be stewards of God's money.

It goes where the need goes and is not filtered through the most poorly managed non-profit in history, namely your local, state,maned federal government. Sending money to the lowest productivity portion of our economy hurts job growth and living conditions of those just outside the poverty level.

God tells us to obey the laws of the land but we see this command broken both in scripture and all reformation movements in OT and NT alike. I advise paying as little as is legally possible and investing your additional money in an outreach to the needy that you are familiar with through volunteer work. It allows you to engage the needy. Not get bilked by people who claim to be Christian or helping, who are just working 20 hrs per week, calling themselves a program director, and taking a 6-figure salary. Believe it or not I know several of these charlatans.

Don't just toss it into the offering on Sunday morning!

Make sure you know and approve of how your church spends your money. I had an Evangelical Pastor recently tell me he had spent $3000 on meals with people visiting the church in one year. "How many joined the church," I asked. "Three families, but one has left since then," was his reply.

I advised my friends to stop paying into an Evangelical meal and vacation slush-fund and give their money to the needy in their community that they already knew had legitimate needs.

Best of luck.

 

[Goodbook]

Yea with some churches I think its a rort.
As for govt taxes, well our country taxes everything. Much more than 10%, and most of the money goes into politicians junkets.

 

[Greg J.]

what is actually a fair tax. Should christians have to pay tithe on top of tax? Isnt tithing a form of tax, so if someones paying tithe and tax both isnt that a fair chunk of someomes wage?

What is your tax rate in your country and what percentage are you paying? Does your govt put taxes on everything?

And do these taxes get used for the welfare of everyone or do you think its wasted or spent on luxuries?

I'd like to know. And is it christian to avoid paying tax. Or maybe you can never avoid it?

Why would Matthew 22:15-22 not answer your question?

Excerpt:

..., “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” (Matthew 22:21b, 1984 NIV)

 

[miknik5]

Do what the LORD would have done. In order not to offend HE would have paid the required taxes to "Cesar" even though HE was and should have been exempt.

 

[Greg J.]

He didn't want to offend by not paying the temple tax (Matthew 17:24-27). He owed Caesar what was Caesar's just like everyone else.

 

[Goodbook]

Yea he got it from a fish.

 

[Goodbook]

I wonder what its like to live in a tax free state.
Is there such a place, I heard Greece didnt have tax and aslo alaska but I could be wrong.

Or maybe it was antarctica.

 

[Goodbook]

Also there are tax havens like switzerland. I mean for anyone whos rich enough to hide squillions of dollars.

 

[Greg J.]

Just look for a place with no roads, no police, no fire department, and where they do not know whether a new building will crash to the ground the first time someone walks into it.

 

[Goodbook]

Somewhere in the pacific ocean? Cook islands. Sounds like paradise and you can live in a hut by a coconut tree and pick coconuts.

 

[Strivax]

Tax is the price you pay for living in a civilised country. Tithes are the price you pay to bring God's Paradise on Earth closer. Both seem to me to be money well spent, if it is used for its intended purposes.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[miknik5]

Yea he got it from a fish.

See? Even a fish obeyed HIM

 

[Strivax]

I wonder what its like to live in a tax free state.
Is there such a place, I heard Greece didnt have tax and aslo alaska but I could be wrong.

Or maybe it was antarctica.

Greece has taxes, it's just that no one ever bothered to pay them, and the authorities couldn't take action against the whole country, which is why it got in such a financial mess, and still is.

The only places I know of that don't have (some types of) tax are the havens for rich people, like the Caymen Islands and Bermuda, and places where the size of oil revenues make the marginal addition of taxation from a small population irrelevant, like Kuwait and Qatar. And there are totally dysfunctional countries, like the Yemen and Libya.

Ultimately, though, government, infrastructure and social goods like defense, health care and education need to be paid for, and if you don't pay for them privately or directly through income taxation, you pay for them indirectly, in other stealthy ways. Or you don't have them at all, which is arguably far worse.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[JoeP222w]

The USA is not a Theocracy, so tithe and tax are 2 completely different things.

In the Democracy of USA, we have legalized theft through income tax, and 30-35% is far too high. It should be no more than 5% in my opinion, but that is simply my opinion. The spending habits of the US government is, and has been for far too long, extremely out of control. The current US deficit of approximately 20 Trillion dollars is immoral and disgusting. No politician who is currently serving in office should be allowed to serve past one term without a balanced budget. And if they refuse to balance the budget, that immediately disqualifies them from a second term. Additionally, no politician should ever be allowed to serve more than 2 terms regardless. I honestly do not believe the Founding Fathers of the USA ever envisioned career politics, because career politics is almost a guarantee of corruption.

In regards to the Tithe, Christians are no longer under the covenant of Law or the Temple sacrificial system or a Theocracy. However, God does command us to give from a cheerful heart and sacrificially. The amount is between God and the believer. There is no 10% requirement under the covenant of Grace.

 

[miknik5]

Greece has taxes, it's just that no one ever bothered to pay them, and the authorities couldn't take action against the whole country, which is why it got in such a financial mess, and still is.

The only places I know of that don't have (some types of) tax are the havens for rich people, like the Caymen Islands, and places where the size of oil revenues make the marginal addition of taxation from a small population irrelevant, like Kuwait and Qatar.

Cheers, Strivax.

Somewhere in the pacific ocean? Cook islands. Sounds like paradise and you can live in a hut by a coconut tree and pick coconuts. the little unknown island which Goodbook referenced

 

[miknik5]

Somewhere in the pacific ocean? Cook islands. Sounds like paradise and you can live in a hut by a coconut tree and pick coconuts.

And the little unknown island which Goodbook referenced above is another place that is probably tax free [/QUOTE]