The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

[Gnarwhal]

Does anyone else feel like those folks who sit there all day trying to "decipher" such-and-such, or sifting through all kinds of end-times forums and websites like "Five Doves", listening to Alex Jones or Steve Quayle or other whackos, etc are like the servant from the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25? That's the impression I get each time I come across someone who clearly spends all or most of their time "studying" this stuff (meaning mainly dispensationalist types).

It all seems especially poignant in light of this understanding of the text:

The talents given to the three servants are not so much monetary gifts or personal capacities; they are a share in the mercy of God, a participation in the weightiness of the divine love. But since mercy is always directed to the other, these “talents” are designed to be shared. In point of fact, they will increase precisely in the measure that they are given away. The problem with the timid servant who buried his talent is not that he was an ineffective venture capitalist but that he fundamentally misunderstood the nature of what he had been given. The divine mercy—received as a pure gift—is meant to be given to others as a pure gift. Buried in the ground, that is to say, hugged tightly to oneself as one’s own possession, such a talent necessarily evanesces. And this is why the master’s seemingly harsh words should not be read as the punishment of an angry God but as an expression of spiritual physics: the divine mercy will grow in you only inasmuch as you give it to others. To “have” the kabod Yahweh is precisely not to have it in the ordinary sense of the term.

http://www.wordonfire.org/resources/article/the-parable-of-the-talents/4482/

 

[random person]

Eutheos, the Achilles heel of partial preterism​

In Matthew 24:29, Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" the Son of Man would come in power and great glory, and, "he will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another" (Matthew 24:31). Simply stated, the gathering at the sound of the trump is nothing less than the resurrection! (C.f. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

Notice the complex of events, the Abomination, the Tribulation, parousia, the gathering of the elect. It should be noted that the parousia and gathering of the elect (the resurrection), would come "immediately after" the Tribulation. Many commentators try to say there is a disjunction here, and that all Jesus was saying is that at some point in the future, the parousia would occur. Or, it is claimed that the "immediately after" simply means "the next thing on the prophetic agenda, regardless of when it occurs."

This rather desperate attempt at exegesis fails on grammatical grounds, as well as contextual. The word translated as immediately, is eutheos (Εὐθέως). This is the word that is used the most often to describe the effect of Jesus' healing miracles. The healing always took place "immediately," and that does not mean that the person eventually got better! They were healed, instantly. The only reason that anyone suggested that "immediately" in Matthew 24:29 does not have temporal significance is because of what they perceive as a failed prediction. In other words, their literalistic concept of what Jesus predicted did not happen immediately, therefore, rather than honor the normal, consistent definition and use of the word, they completely redefine the word. This is unjustified, and should be rejected.

The parallels between Daniel and the Olivet Discourse are direct and precise. Daniel 9 foretold the death of Messiah, the Abomination of Desolation, which of course would lead to the Tribulation and the destruction of Jerusalem, and the consummation of the seventy weeks. The consummation of the seventy weeks would be kingdom and resurrection, the salvation of Israel.

Although the death of Jesus is not specifically mentioned in Matthew 24, it lies behind the text nonetheless. We then find the Abomination, the Tribulation, the parousia and the gathering of the elect. Jesus emphatically posited all of those things for his generation (v. 34).

Daniel 7 and the Discourse are also parallel. Daniel's prediction is focused on the days of the fourth kingdom, i.e. Rome. The Little Horn persecutes the saints. The Son of Man comes in judgment of the persecutor, vindicating the saints, and delivering the kingdom to them.

In the Olivet Discourse, which Jesus said would be fulfilled in his generation (during the days of the Roman empire!), Jesus predicted the persecution of the saints (Matthew 24:9f). The persecutor however, is identified as the nation of Israel. Jesus foretold the Abomination of Desolation, the Tribulation, followed by his coming on the clouds of heaven in vindication of the saints. This would be the time of the kingdom (Luke 21:28-31).

Daniel 12 contains identical motifs. We find the Abomination of Desolation (12:11), the time of tribulation (12:1), the deliverance of the saints (12:1), the time of the end (12:4) and the time of the kingdom (12:3). Significantly, Daniel was told that the final fulfillment of his vision would be when Israel was completely destroyed (12:7, matching Daniel 9:27 perfectly), and Jesus said that his prediction would be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in his generation. The dove-tailing of these details is no mere coincidence, and should not be ignored. Daniel posits the Tribulation in the context of Israel's judgment and last days, and Jesus does as well.

Our study of Daniel, the Tribulation, the resurrection, and thus, of course, the Day of the Lord, has demonstrated that not only does the Tribulation belong to Israel and her last days, but, the Tribulation was to be an immediate precursor and sign of the resurrection and kingdom. The fact that not only Daniel, but, Jesus and the N.T. said that the Tribulation was to occur in the first century generation is prima facie proof that the parousia and the resurrection was to occur in that same generation.

Don K Preston

 

[JLB777]

In Matthew 24:29, Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" the Son of Man would come in power and great glory, and, "he will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another" (Matthew 24:31). Simply stated, the gathering at the sound of the trump is nothing less than the resurrection! (C.f. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

Notice the complex of events, the Abomination, the Tribulation, parousia, the gathering of the elect. It should be noted that the parousia and gathering of the elect (the resurrection), would come "immediately after" the Tribulation. Many commentators try to say there is a disjunction here, and that all Jesus was saying is that at some point in the future, the parousia would occur. Or, it is claimed that the "immediately after" simply means "the next thing on the prophetic agenda, regardless of when it occurs."

This rather desperate attempt at exegesis fails on grammatical grounds, as well as contextual. The word translated as immediately, is eutheos (Εὐθέως). This is the word that is used the most often to describe the effect of Jesus' healing miracles. The healing always took place "immediately," and that does not mean that the person eventually got better! They were healed, instantly. The only reason that anyone suggested that "immediately" in Matthew 24:29 does not have temporal significance is because of what they perceive as a failed prediction. In other words, their literalistic concept of what Jesus predicted did not happen immediately, therefore, rather than honor the normal, consistent definition and use of the word, they completely redefine the word. This is unjustified, and should be rejected.

The parallels between Daniel and the Olivet Discourse are direct and precise. Daniel 9 foretold the death of Messiah, the Abomination of Desolation, which of course would lead to the Tribulation and the destruction of Jerusalem, and the consummation of the seventy weeks. The consummation of the seventy weeks would be kingdom and resurrection, the salvation of Israel.

Although the death of Jesus is not specifically mentioned in Matthew 24, it lies behind the text nonetheless. We then find the Abomination, the Tribulation, the parousia and the gathering of the elect. Jesus emphatically posited all of those things for his generation (v. 34).

Daniel 7 and the Discourse are also parallel. Daniel's prediction is focused on the days of the fourth kingdom, i.e. Rome. The Little Horn persecutes the saints. The Son of Man comes in judgment of the persecutor, vindicating the saints, and delivering the kingdom to them.

In the Olivet Discourse, which Jesus said would be fulfilled in his generation (during the days of the Roman empire!), Jesus predicted the persecution of the saints (Matthew 24:9f). The persecutor however, is identified as the nation of Israel. Jesus foretold the Abomination of Desolation, the Tribulation, followed by his coming on the clouds of heaven in vindication of the saints. This would be the time of the kingdom (Luke 21:28-31).

Daniel 12 contains identical motifs. We find the Abomination of Desolation (12:11), the time of tribulation (12:1), the deliverance of the saints (12:1), the time of the end (12:4) and the time of the kingdom (12:3). Significantly, Daniel was told that the final fulfillment of his vision would be when Israel was completely destroyed (matching Daniel 9:27 perfectly), and Jesus said that his prediction would be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in his generation. The dove-tailing of these details is no mere coincidence, and should not be ignored. Daniel posits the Tribulation in the context of Israel's judgment and last days, and Jesus does as well.

Our study of Daniel, the Tribulation, the resurrection, and thus, of course, the Day of the Lord, has demonstrated that not only does the Tribulation belong to Israel and her last days, but, the Tribulation was to be an immediate precursor and sign of the resurrection and kingdom. The fact that not only Daniel, but, Jesus and the N.T. said that the Tribulation was to occur in the first century generation is prima facie proof that the parousia and the resurrection was to occur in that same generation.

Don K Preston

No such scripture of the parousia and resurrection occurring in the first century.


Those who claim the resurrection is past have strayed from the truth, and are teachers of Heresy.


16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18


Those who wander from the truth have become sinners in need of repentance, or face eternal death.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20



JLB

 

[random person]

No such scripture of the parousia and resurrection occurring in the first century.


Those who claim the resurrection is past have strayed from the truth, and are teachers of Heresy.


16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18


Those who wander from the truth have become sinners in need of repentance, or face eternal death.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20



JLB

Was this scripture passage written before 70 A.D. or after 70 A.D.?

 

[JLB777]

Was this scripture passage written before 70 A.D. or after 70 A.D.?

What in the world does 70 AD have to do with anything?

If you can prove from Scripture when it was written then do so,

The parousia takes place on the last Day, when all the dead in Christ will be raised, and those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with Him in the clouds in the air, and then the wicked will be destroyed, beginning with the lawless one, the man of sin.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

This event is called the Day of the Lord.

This is at the end of the age, on the last Day, when the saints return with Jesus Christ, to receive their resurrected bodies that will never die and shine like the sun.

The Day of the Lord is what Jesus described in His Olivet Discourse, as prophesied by Zechariah.

This event is when Jesus returns, in which every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and they will mourn...


10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


The Olivet Discourse has nothing at all to do with the events of 70 AD, as the Preterist's, such as the Heretic Don K Preston, as misunderstood and misrepresented to God's people.


This is what Jesus was teaching His disciples about on the Mount of Olives. Matthew 24, Luke 21, and mark 13.


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:1-7


29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31



Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Again, 70 AD has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the parousia of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture of the Church.


JLB


JLB

 

[random person]

What in the world does 70 AD have to do with anything?

If you can prove from Scripture when it was written then do so,

The parousia takes place on the last Day, when all the dead in Christ will be raised, and those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with Him in the clouds in the air, and then the wicked will be destroyed, beginning with the lawless one, the man of sin.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

This event is called the Day of the Lord.

This is at the end of the age, on the last Day, when the saints return with Jesus Christ, to receive their resurrected bodies that will never die and shine like the sun.

The Day of the Lord is what Jesus described in His Olivet Discourse, as prophesied by Zechariah.

This event is when Jesus returns, in which every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and they will mourn...


10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


The Olivet Discourse has nothing at all to do with the events of 70 AD, as the Preterist's, such as the Heretic Don K Preston, as misunderstood and misrepresented to God's people.


This is what Jesus was teaching His disciples about on the Mount of Olives. Matthew 24, Luke 21, and mark 13.


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

6 It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:1-7


29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31



Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Again, 70 AD has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the parousia of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture of the Church.


JLB


JLB

70 A.D. has everything to do with the Parousia. Why does sin, death, and childbearing still exist after the new heavens and new earth is created?

Isaiah 65:17 compared to Isaiah 65:20-24.

Isaiah 66:22 compared to Isaiah 66:24.

Revelation 21:1 compared to Revelation 21:25-27, 22:3,15.

The Prophets and Jesus spoke in a covenant language. There are a ton of promises God made regarding the sun, moon, and stars. And every living thing upon the earth.

Here is a collection of promises found in the Scripture for covenantal eschatologists to stand upon:

And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down EVERY LIVING creature as I have done.

Genesis 8:21

In his days may the righteous flourish,
and peace abound, till the moon be no more!

May his name endure forever,
his fame continue as long as the sun!
May people be blessed in him,
all nations call him blessed!

Psalms 72:7,17

He built his sanctuary like the high heavens,
like the earth, which he has founded forever.

Psalms 78:69

His offspring shall endure forever,
his throne as long as the sun before me.
Like the moon it shall be established forever,
a faithful witness in the skies.” Selah

Psalms 89:36-37

He set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be moved.



Psalms 104:5

Praise him, you highest heavens,
and you waters above the heavens!
Let them praise the name of the Lord!
For he commanded and they were created.
And he established them forever and ever;
he gave a decree, and it shall not pass away

Psalms 148:4-6

A generation goes, and a generation comes,
but the earth remains forever.

Ecclesiastes 1:4

to him be glory IN the church and in Christ Jesus THROUGHOUT ALL generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 3:21

Please remember the futurist and the partial preterist believe Christ is going to destroy the whole material universe: earth, the sun, and the moon along with it. And create a New Heavens and New Earth whereby Resurrected Christians will inhabit forever and ever in a deathless and sinless EDENIC utopia living in mansions created by God Himself called New Earth.

However, how do they explain these passages:

“For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth,
and the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in that which I create;
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,
and her people to be a gladness.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem
and be glad in my people;
no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping
and the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.


Infants?
Old men?
Young men die?
Accursed sinners?
There will be infants, old men, accursed sinners amongst the Resurrected in the New Earth? And young men will die in the New Earth?

21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain
or bear children for calamity,
for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord,
and their descendants with them.


Build houses?
Plant vineyards?
Labor not in vain?
Bear Children?
Offspring?
Descendants?
The Resurrected in the New Earth will produce all of these things themselves with their own hands?

24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are yet speaking I will hear.


Prayers? The Resurrected will pray in a perfect New Earth and New Heavens?

25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together;
the lion shall eat straw like the ox,
and dust shall be the serpent's food.
They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.

ISAIAH 65:17-25

and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations. 20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the Lord.

Gentiles for priests and Levites in the New Earth?


22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord,
so shall your offspring and your name remain.

Offspring? The Resurrected will produce offspring in the New Earth?

23 From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares the Lord.

24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me.

Dead bodies in the New Earth? Why are they still around after the literal dissolution of the heavens and the earth?

For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

ISAIAH 66:19-24

Too many churches and christians today aren't reading the context of this covenant language in the Bible. They are preaching a pipe dream each and every Sunday. That Jesus will come, destroy the material heavens and the earth against Bible promises, recreate them, create a universe without sin and death, and will remove His throne from heaven and forever inhabit the earth which God calls His footstool. Look the Bible states "hope deferred makes the heart sick, but desire fulfilled is a tree of life." Here lies the very heart of Jesus' prophetic predictions that ALL will be fulfilled before his generation passes. I am about to post up a preterist message what is the true meaning of "everlasting righteousness" in its proper Biblical context soon.

 

[random person]

Why was Israel promised everlasting righteous?
​

In order to properly understand Daniel's prophecy of the arrival of the world of everlasting righteousness, we must understand Daniel, and thus Israel's standing under Torah, the Mosaic Covenant world.

When Daniel wrote, he and Israel, was living under Torah, the law that could not give righteousness. It was under that system that Isaiah lamented, "Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; truth is fallen in the streets" (Isaiah 59:14), and, "all of our righteousness are like filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6).

In the Jewish mentality, righteousness was inextricably related to the Torah (Luke 1:6). As a faithful Jew, Paul wrote of the Torah, "If a law could have been given that could have given life, then, verily, righteousness would have been through the Law." (Galatians 3:20-21).

So, living under that system that could never impart righteousness, Daniel was told of a new order when righteousness would be the order of the Day.

Paul spoke of the Torah, written and engraven in stone, as, "the ministration of death" (2 Corinthians 3:6f), because it not only could not give life, but, it made sin abound (Romans 5:20f). And, "sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead" (Romans 7:8). Thus, "I was alive once, without the Law, but the commandment came, sin revived, and I died" (Romans 7:9). As a result, "The commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death" (Romans 7:10). In other words, the Torah was "the strength of sin."

It identified sin.​

It accused the sinner.​

It made sin abound.​

It brought death.​

It was the ministration of (the) death.​

That means that the goal of Daniel 9 was the New Covenant world of Messiah.

It must be emphasized that the seventy week countdown included the time when the Mosaic Covenant was still in effect. In other words, the Mosaic Covenant as the strength of sin and the ministration of death, would remain valid during the seventy week countdown. But, lying on the horizon, at the climax of the countdown, lay the wonderful New Covenant world of Messiah, the ministration of righteousness and life (2 Corinthians 3:9).

What is the world of everlasting righteousness?​

Was Daniel's anticipated world of righteousness a renewal of material creation, the restoration of physical Edenic utopia, or was it the giving of the New Covenant relationship, wherein righteousness was given, where life was possible? Notice the strongly covenantal context of Daniel. The covenantal context cannot be ignored, for in reality, righteousness is a covenantal concept, and is not a matter of rocks and trees. It has to do with man's standing before God, not how green the grass is, or how clean the water is.

Don K Preston

 

[JLB777]

70 A.D. has everything to do with the Parousia. Why does sin, death, and childbearing still exist after the new heavens and new earth is created?

Isaiah 65:17 compared to Isaiah 65:20-24.

Isaiah 66:22 compared to Isaiah 66:24.

Revelation 21:1 compared to Revelation 21:25-27, 22:3,15.

The Prophets and Jesus spoke in a covenant language. There are a ton of promises God made regarding the sun, moon, and stars. And every living thing upon the earth.

Here is a collection of promises found in the Scripture for covenantal eschatologists to stand upon:

And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down EVERY LIVING creature as I have done.

Genesis 8:21

In his days may the righteous flourish,
and peace abound, till the moon be no more!

May his name endure forever,
his fame continue as long as the sun!
May people be blessed in him,
all nations call him blessed!

Psalms 72:7,17

He built his sanctuary like the high heavens,
like the earth, which he has founded forever.

Psalms 78:69

His offspring shall endure forever,
his throne as long as the sun before me.
Like the moon it shall be established forever,
a faithful witness in the skies.” Selah

Psalms 89:36-37

He set the earth on its foundations,
so that it should never be moved.



Psalms 104:5

Praise him, you highest heavens,
and you waters above the heavens!
Let them praise the name of the Lord!
For he commanded and they were created.
And he established them forever and ever;
he gave a decree, and it shall not pass away

Psalms 148:4-6

A generation goes, and a generation comes,
but the earth remains forever.

Ecclesiastes 1:4

to him be glory IN the church and in Christ Jesus THROUGHOUT ALL generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Ephesians 3:21

Please remember the futurist and the partial preterist believe Christ is going to destroy the whole material universe: earth, the sun, and the moon along with it. And create a New Heavens and New Earth whereby Resurrected Christians will inhabit forever and ever in a deathless and sinless EDENIC utopia living in mansions created by God Himself called New Earth.

However, how do they explain these passages:

“For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth,
and the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in that which I create;
for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy,
and her people to be a gladness.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem
and be glad in my people;
no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping
and the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,
for the young man shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.


Infants?
Old men?
Young men die?
Accursed sinners?
There will be infants, old men, accursed sinners amongst the Resurrected in the New Earth? And young men will die in the New Earth?

21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
they shall not plant and another eat;
for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be,
and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain
or bear children for calamity,
for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the Lord,
and their descendants with them.


Build houses?
Plant vineyards?
Labor not in vain?
Bear Children?
Offspring?
Descendants?
The Resurrected in the New Earth will produce all of these things themselves with their own hands?

24 Before they call I will answer;
while they are yet speaking I will hear.


Prayers? The Resurrected will pray in a perfect New Earth and New Heavens?

25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together;
the lion shall eat straw like the ox,
and dust shall be the serpent's food.
They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.

ISAIAH 65:17-25

and I will set a sign among them. And from them I will send survivors to the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, who draw the bow, to Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands far away, that have not heard my fame or seen my glory. And they shall declare my glory among the nations. 20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord. 21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the Lord.

Gentiles for priests and Levites in the New Earth?


22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord,
so shall your offspring and your name remain.

Offspring? The Resurrected will produce offspring in the New Earth?

23 From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares the Lord.

24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me.

Dead bodies in the New Earth? Why are they still around after the literal dissolution of the heavens and the earth?

For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

ISAIAH 66:19-24

Too many churches and christians today aren't reading the context of this covenant language in the Bible. They are preaching a pipe dream each and every Sunday. That Jesus will come, destroy the material heavens and the earth against Bible promises, recreate them, create a universe without sin and death, and will remove His throne from heaven and forever inhabit the earth which God calls His footstool. Look the Bible states "hope deferred makes the heart sick, but desire fulfilled is a tree of life." Here lies the very heart of Jesus' prophetic predictions that ALL will be fulfilled before his generation passes. I am about to post up a preterist message what is the true meaning of "everlasting righteousness" in its proper Biblical context soon.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36


Do people still die?


Case Closed.

After the resurrection of the dead in Christ, we will have bodies that will never die.


Preterism is Heresy.

Those who teach Heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21




JLB

 

[parousia70]

Those who claim the resurrection is past have strayed from the truth, and are teachers of Heresy.

So Even after it happens, we won't be able to say "it is past"?

 

[parousia70]

What in the world does 70 AD have to do with anything?

It has Everything in the World to do with it.

The parousia takes place on the last Day,

The Last day of What?

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Who's "we"? Paul too? Obviously Paul thought so.
But JLB says Paul was wrong to believe he was included in the "we".

Poor Paul.. too bad He didn't have JLB there to correct his erroneous teaching.

This event is called the Day of the Lord.

Of which there have been several... even you believe that.

This is at the end of the age

At the end of WHAT age? and when do you say that age began?

The Olivet Discourse has nothing at all to do with the events of 70 AD,

So When Jesus answered their question about the temple's destruction, after He had just pointed it's structures out to his audience and prophesied their dismantling, He was speaking about a different temple than the one he was pointing to being destroyed at a time 1000's of years later?

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

Jesus is referencing previous battles of Jehovah and likening them to the coming one He is speaking of so we can gain understanding of the nature of the coming battle.
So How does the Lord fight in the day of battle?
Can you provide any scriptures that record the Lord "Fighting in the day of battle" previous to this?

 

[JLB777]

Who's "we"? Paul too? Obviously Paul thought so.
But JLB says Paul was wrong to believe he was included in the "we".

Your a liar and a deceiver.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Read what Paul says.

The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive and will be caught TOGETHER WITH THEM...

All of God's people will all be together with Him in the air.

And you believe this has happened already.

This happens on the last day.

When Jesus returns to gather all His people together to be with Him.


70 AD has nothing at all to do with the the return of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture.

Every eye will see Him when He comes.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

The Last day of What?

This age.



JLB

 

[stevenfrancis]

Christ has died

Christ IS risen

Christ will come again.

This is the eschatology I have been taught, though it can be fleshed out with scriptures. Is this what your group believes?

 

[parousia70]

This age.



JLB

Which began when?

 

[parousia70]

Your a liar and a deceiver.

No I'm not. and If you call me that again I will report you.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Read what Paul says.

The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive and will be caught TOGETHER WITH THEM...

Yep, and Paul included Himself in the "we who are alive and remain" Read what Paul says. THEN, tell us why you believe Paul was wrong to include Himself in that group of those "alive and remaining".

70 AD has nothing at all to do with the the return of the Lord

Then when did this happen?:

Matthew 21:33-45
33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.

Every eye will see Him when He comes.

Which is NOT "in like manner" as He ascended, is it?

 

[parousia70]

Christ has died

Christ IS risen

Christ will come again.

This is the eschatology I have been taught, though it can be fleshed out with scriptures. Is this what your group believes?

Yes, all Partial preterists, including Catholics, believe as you do.
Noted Catholic Theologian Dr Scott Hahn does a great job fleshing this out.
Are you familiar with His work at all?

 

[JLB777]

No I'm not. and If you call me that again I will report you.

You will need to report Paul as well.

It's Paul who says that those who claim the resurrection is past, have "strayed" from the truth.

17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18


If someone has strayed from the truth because they say the resurrection is past, they are not speaking the truth.


Someone who is not speaking the truth is called what...?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Which began when?

With Adam, and will continue until Christ returns to gather His people at the resurrection/rapture.

In the age to come, "that age", we will no longer die, nor will we marry, for we will be like the angels, being sons of God, which is to say... sons of the resurrection.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

If people still die, then it is still "this age" and the resurrection, nor parousia has happened yet.

The coming of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture is something we all are looking forward to.



JLB

 

[stevenfrancis]

Yes, all Partial preterists, including Catholics, believe as you do.
Noted Catholic Theologian Dr Scott Hahn does a great job fleshing this out.
Are you familiar with His work at all?

Yes. Scott Hahn is one of my favorite authors, and one of his books, ("The Lamb's Supper") is actually instrumental in my Christian conversion.

 

[parousia70]

You will need to report Paul as well.

It's Paul who says that those who claim the resurrection is past, have "strayed" from the truth.

So again I ask, once it IS past, will the prohibition against saying it is past be lifted, or will It always be heresy to say it is past, eve after it is past?