Which Church is THE Church?

Light of the East

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Sadly its a waste of time. They will not change and neither will we.

Don't be terribly sure about that. Truth has a funny way of sneaking up on you when you least realize or are looking for it. I was virulently anti-Catholic for 25 years. Now look. You would do well - if you want to keep your Protestant faith - to not hang around places like this. You might wind up snappin' Mackerel.
 
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Light of the East

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You are correct, on all points (our Bishops are called "Presidents")

All Christ said is "this is"; and you are correct, the Apostles did not teach Transubstantiation; but they did teach the real presence of the very body and blood of our Lord.

"Baptism now saves you" "given for your for the forgiveness of sins" "whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven"; Sorry PapaZoom, it is your position that has little or no Biblical support; most of which are recent innovations that happened after the Lutheran and Anglican reformations.



Oooooookay! This is really weird, having a Lutheran defending us. But thanks for the props.
 
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PapaZoom

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Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You really should study your Bible more carefully.

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Not "represents." Not "is to remind you of my body."

What part of "is" do you not get? And here I thought you took the Bible seriously.

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

What Bible are you using? Apparently they cut some verses out of your edition.

Jhn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them;and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Why does Jesus give these men the power to forgive sins, which power and authority belongs to God alone, unless they are acting in His place and representing Him? Since you are demanding Bible answers, I will demand one from you. Where does it say in the Bible "the Levitical priesthood is now over?"

I'll be waiting.....

I know all those. None of those mean what you say they mean. You are making the text say what it doesn't say.
 
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W2L

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Don't be terribly sure about that. Truth has a funny way of sneaking up on you when you least realize or are looking for it. I was virulently anti-Catholic for 25 years. Now look. You would do well - if you want to keep your Protestant faith - to not hang around places like this. You might wind up snappin' Mackerel.

I have fullness right now. My heart overflows with joy. You can say whatever you want friend, but I have fullness. Praise the Lord my soul, praise the Lord!
 
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Light of the East

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I know all those. None of those mean what you say they mean. You are making the text say what it doesn't say.

I am taking the words literally and at their face value. How is that making up?

Also, if the Apostles taught Baptist doctrine, why do you not see that doctrine showing up for 1500 years? Why do all the sermons, homilies, and epistles of the Early Church sound distinctly Catholic?

Look, I used to feel the same way you do and believe the same things that you believe. My pastors and the evangelists I listened to kept me in the dark and fed me.....well, what they feed a mushroom. But when I started to actually look at what the first preachers of the Christian faith taught and believed, I couldn't find my Presbyterianism, or Bible Fundamentalism (Bob Jone Variety - 13 years worth) anywhere. They were nowhere on the radar in the first century, and I had to ask myself "why?"

You need to think this through. If the first preachers of the Christian faith, men like Polycarp, who was discipled by John, taught distinctly Catholic ideas and doctrines, then you can only come to one conclusion - the Apostles taught this stuff to the next generation. There was no "paganization by Constantine" like I had been taught. This stuff was a couple of centuries before Constantine supposedly paganized the Church.

Just think about it.
 
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Light of the East

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I have fullness right now. My heart overflows with joy. You can say whatever you want friend, but I have fullness. Praise the Lord my soul, praise the Lord!

I do not doubt that you do. I had a good relationship with the Lord as a Fundamentalist and then a PCA Calvinist. I had joy and freedom from my sins.

But there is more.....believe me.
 
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PapaZoom

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I am taking the words literally and at their face value. How is that making up?

Also, if the Apostles taught Baptist doctrine, why do you not see that doctrine showing up for 1500 years? Why do all the sermons, homilies, and epistles of the Early Church sound distinctly Catholic?

Look, I used to feel the same way you do and believe the same things that you believe. My pastors and the evangelists I listened to kept me in the dark and fed me.....well, what they feed a mushroom. But when I started to actually look at what the first preachers of the Christian faith taught and believed, I couldn't find my Presbyterianism, or Bible Fundamentalism (Bob Jone Variety - 13 years worth) anywhere. They were nowhere on the radar in the first century, and I had to ask myself "why?"

You need to think this through. If the first preachers of the Christian faith, men like Polycarp, who was discipled by John, taught distinctly Catholic ideas and doctrines, then you can only come to one conclusion - the Apostles taught this stuff to the next generation. There was no "paganization by Constantine" like I had been taught. This stuff was a couple of centuries before Constantine supposedly paganized the Church.

Just think about it.
\

Jesus said he was a door too.
 
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PapaZoom

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I am taking the words literally and at their face value. How is that making up?

Also, if the Apostles taught Baptist doctrine, why do you not see that doctrine showing up for 1500 years? Why do all the sermons, homilies, and epistles of the Early Church sound distinctly Catholic?

Look, I used to feel the same way you do and believe the same things that you believe. My pastors and the evangelists I listened to kept me in the dark and fed me.....well, what they feed a mushroom. But when I started to actually look at what the first preachers of the Christian faith taught and believed, I couldn't find my Presbyterianism, or Bible Fundamentalism (Bob Jone Variety - 13 years worth) anywhere. They were nowhere on the radar in the first century, and I had to ask myself "why?"

You need to think this through. If the first preachers of the Christian faith, men like Polycarp, who was discipled by John, taught distinctly Catholic ideas and doctrines, then you can only come to one conclusion - the Apostles taught this stuff to the next generation. There was no "paganization by Constantine" like I had been taught. This stuff was a couple of centuries before Constantine supposedly paganized the Church.

Just think about it.

BTW I am studying the early Church Fathers and just finished a book of history by Eusebius. I don't follow "Baptist" teaching but I do follow Biblical teachings. I've been baptized but don't believe it is necessary for salvation because Jesus alone saves. If baptism is necessary, then Jesus' death on the cross isn't sufficient for salvation.

.
 
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W2L

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I do not doubt that you do. I had a good relationship with the Lord as a Fundamentalist and then a PCA Calvinist. I had joy and freedom from my sins.

But there is more.....believe me.

Many Catholics who fled RC would disagree with you. I have all I need. I learned a secret. The Lord showed me. The Lord hides me in his secret place whenever Psalms 27. We have died and been raised, our life hidden with Christ in God Colossians 3. We walk by faith not sight. :)

 
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Light of the East

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BTW I am studying the early Church Fathers and just finished a book of history by Eusebius. I don't follow "Baptist" teaching but I do follow Biblical teachings. I've been baptized but don't believe it is necessary for salvation because Jesus alone saves. If baptism is necessary, then Jesus' death on the cross isn't sufficient for salvation.

Was circumcision necessary to be part of national Israel and to share in the ordinances by which the Israelite was forgiven of sins? You are setting up a conflict that doesn't exist.

Baptism is the ritual of covenant making which replaced circumcision. One is baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3) and into the Body of Christ, which is the Church.

Christians are people of the covenant. We live in the New Covenant, therefore, you must enter into the covenant relationship in the manner which God has established. In the Old Covenant it was circumcision. In the New Covenant, it is baptism. The Cross makes the Covenant effective for all those who enter into it.
 
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Light of the East

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Many Catholics who fled RC would disagree with you. I have all I need. I learned a secret. The Lord showed me. The Lord hides me in his secret place whenever Psalms 27. We have died and been raised, our life hidden with Christ in God Colossians 3. We walk by faith not sight. :)


Any Catholic who left the Roman Rite was someone who was ill-catechized and didn't know what he was abandoning. The Roman Rite has admitted that it did an absolutely horrible job of catechizing its people for the last 100 or so years.
 
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W2L

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Any Catholic who left the Roman Rite was someone who was ill-catechized and didn't know what he was abandoning. The Roman Rite has admitted that it did an absolutely horrible job of catechizing its people for the last 100 or so years.

You have a blessed night.
 
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PapaZoom

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Was circumcision necessary to be part of national Israel and to share in the ordinances by which the Israelite was forgiven of sins? You are setting up a conflict that doesn't exist.

Baptism is the ritual of covenant making which replaced circumcision. One is baptized into Christ (Romans 6:3) and into the Body of Christ, which is the Church.

Christians are people of the covenant. We live in the New Covenant, therefore, you must enter into the covenant relationship in the manner which God has established. In the Old Covenant it was circumcision. In the New Covenant, it is baptism. The Cross makes the Covenant effective for all those who enter into it.

I see no explicit teaching of this from the Bible. We are baptized from obedience but it has no salvific power.
 
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PapaZoom

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Job8

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Go for it!!!

Oh -- BTW -- don't "flood" or "shotgun" me either! Pick a subject -- one subject -- and post your objections. Don't expect me to respond to a mile long post of 20 different objections.

One at a time
Please see the thread I have started in General Theology -- "Purgatory: A Colossal Fraud".
 
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rturner76

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@rturner76

Slaves?

Brother, I think you lost it big time.
Revelation 18:13 which you quoted to me

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
 
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