Which Church is THE Church?

[Gregory Thompson]

I thought you said, only a few posts back, that you were going to give this a rest. That sounded like a good idea.

Thank you. Don't mind if I do.

 

[lesliedellow]

So what happened with the pages ripped out after the reformation? By virtue of what rubber stamp?

Even in the days of Jerome, the status of the deutero-canonical texts was disputed, but then the Pope decreed that they should be included, and so that settled it until the Reformation.

 

[W2L]

Correct, that is why I want the fullness of Christ through Scripture and Tradition, Mass, and Eucharist (with transubstantiation). I believe it's the most Christ available in a church. *Obviously that's why I'm Catholic*

Christ is found in our heart. I can tell by what you say that RC doesn't have fullness any more than others. They just think they do. *Why I'm not Catholic*

 

[W2L]

Stop splitting hairs. Scribes were professional penmen in a culture which was mostly illiterate.

Yes but biblical scribes had a specific role.

 

[rturner76]

Christ is found in our heart. I can tell by what you say that RC doesn't have fullness any more than others. They just think they do. *Why I'm not Catholic*

If you don't want the Real Presence of Christ in your communion that's a choice you have to make. I myself am very happy to receive the transubstantiation at Mass

 

[W2L]

If you don't want the Real Presence of Christ in your communion that's a choice you have to make. I myself am very happy to receive the transubstantiation at Mass

I have the real presence of the Lord daily, as I seek him in prayer, and cast all my cares on him. Why would I need what I already have?

 

[Albion]

If you don't want the Real Presence of Christ in your communion that's a choice you have to make. I myself am very happy to receive the transubstantiation at Mass

I think both of you are at least partially wrong about this, but most Christians regardless of denomination do believe in the Real Presence, so that's nothing to worry overly much about.

 

[Thursday]

hahahahahaha hahahahah thats so funny / NO the roman catholic church came about 400 years after so by every reason above CANNOT be his church . .. lol that is such common knowledge this is a great JOKE.

. i get it .. your very very funny -you made a very funny joke .

Not true. Jesus started a single Church, led by the apostles. The apostles, appointed by Jesus, chose successors.

Here's one of them writing in 107 AD. Ignatius was a follower of John:

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Nor is it permitted without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate the agape; but whatever he approve, this too is pleasing to God, so that whatever is done will be secure and valid.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr; Letter to the Smyrneans § 8)

 

[rturner76]

I have the real presence of the Lord daily, as I seek him in prayer, and cast all my cares on him. Why would I need what I already have?

If you feel you do not need his physical presence then what you have is satisfactiory

 

[Albion]

Not true. Jesus started a single Church, led by the apostles. The apostles, appointed by Jesus, chose successors.

Here's one of them writing in 107 AD. Ignatius was a follower of John:

“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Nor is it permitted without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate the agape; but whatever he approve, this too is pleasing to God, so that whatever is done will be secure and valid.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr; Letter to the Smyrneans § 8)

The reference there is to the undenominational church as opposed to the Gnostics and other mystery religions. The word means "authentic."

It is not a reference to the church that took the word ("Catholic") for its formal name. If you insist upon claiming otherwise, we'll have to say something in kind--that your church doesn't have bishops at all since we see that there's a different denomination that has the legal name of "THE Episcopal Church." Or could we say that your church's beliefs are "Unorthodox" since another church titles itself as "Orthodox?"

 

[W2L]

If you don't want the Real Presence of Christ in your communion that's a choice you have to make. I myself am very happy to receive the transubstantiation at Mass

I have the real presence. You cant sell me what I already have

 

[rturner76]

I have the real presence. You cant sell me what I already have

I think we are having a misunderstanding. I'm referring to the Real Presence as in the physical presence of Christ as the bread and wine are turned into flesh and blood. Only Catholics, Orthodox, and Episcopalians have this Sacrament. Lutherans have a version of it. I believe you are referring to a spiritual presence which I believe is valid.

 

[rturner76]

The reference there is to the undenominational church as opposed to the Gnostics and other mystery religions. The word means "authentic."

It is not a reference to the church that took the word ("Catholic") for its formal name. If you insist upon claiming otherwise, we'll have to say something in kind--that your church doesn't have bishops at all since we see that there's a different denomination that has the legal name of "THE Episcopal Church." Or could we say that your church's beliefs are "Unorthodox" since another church titles itself as "Orthodox?"

This "undenominational" church in Rome I believe is what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church. The Episcopal Church came from that in England and the Eastern Catholic Church became the Orthodox Church

 

[W2L]

I think we are having a misunderstanding. I'm referring to the Real Presence as in the physical presence of Christ as the bread and wine are turned into flesh and blood. Only Catholics, Orthodox, and Episcopalians have this Sacrament. Lutherans have a version of it. I believe you are referring to a spiritual presence which I believe is valid.

No misunderstanding. You believe in a flawed interpretation of John 6. Look, we will not agree, so lets let it go.

 

[amadeois]

Somebody mentioned spirits.

God is a spirit so Jesus is also a spirit and a spirit is eternal, not corruptible.

And in Matthew 12:49-50 He said:

49. 'And He stretched forth His hand toward his disciples, and said, "Behold my mother and my brethren!

50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Was He talking about His earthly brothers?

No.

He was talking about His spiritual brethre.

So His ekklesia is an spiritual congregation of souls.

All over the world. That is where we meet.

How do we contact each other?

Through this mean, the internent.

This earth not created with human hands is the temple of God.

SURPRISED? Probably not because a lot of people here believe that their denomination, or catholics, or whatever is are the church because they put a sign in front saying CHURCH.

THE TRUE CHURCH DOES NOT NEED A SIGN.

 

[lesliedellow]

This "undenominational" church in Rome I believe is what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church. The Episcopal Church came from that in England and the Eastern Catholic Church became the Orthodox Church

Um, the Church of New Testament times was centred around the apostles in Jerusalem. Even after the destruction of Jerusalem, the church in Rome wasn't accorded any special status until the mid second century. Except in Catholic mythology, of course.

 

[amadeois]

Why an spiritual church?

Jesus message is an spiritual message.

The first death is the corporeal one. The second death is the spiritual one.

Do you want to suffer the second death and miss eternity in company of Jesus and God?

IS YOUR CHOICE.

 

[rturner76]

1. 1. Um, the Church of New Testament times was centred around the apostles in Jerusalem. Even after the destruction of Jerusalem, the church in Rome wasn't accorded any special status until the mid second century. Except in Catholic mythology, of course.

      1. St. Peter (32-67)
      2. St. Linus (67-76)
      3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
      4. St. Clement I (88-97)
      5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
      6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
      7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
      8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
      9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
      10. St. Pius I (140-155)
      11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
      12. St. Soter (166-175)
      Here is a list of the first Popes. The Roman Catholic Church is pretty old

 

[Light of the East]

I have the real presence. You cant sell me what I already have

You are deceived.

 

[W2L]

1. 1. 1. St. Peter (32-67)
      2. St. Linus (67-76)
      3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
      4. St. Clement I (88-97)
      5. St. Evaristus (97-105)
      6. St. Alexander I (105-115)
      7. St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
      8. St. Telesphorus (125-136)
      9. St. Hyginus (136-140)
      10. St. Pius I (140-155)
      11. St. Anicetus (155-166)
      12. St. Soter (166-175)
      Here is a list of the first Popes. The Roman Catholic Church is pretty old

Peter wasn't a pope, he was part of a council of apostles.