I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
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John 17:15
I'm a pre trib believer, but I can't help but be bothered by this verse. does this prove posttribulation, or is there a way around this? I'd like some answers
If Jesus means He will resurrect His bride church before the great tribulation, then what Jesus knows is good. But I have not found a scripture which in simple words says anything like "Jesus will come back immediately before the great tribulation" or anything like this in simple words which can speak for themselves. And I know the Holy Spirit is literate enough to give us such a simple statement in scripture if this is so important, like ones treat it to be so important and needing so much attention . . . and so many books which people pay money for.
But, in scripture, the Holy Spirit has given us various other plainly worded statements which someone with basic language skills can understand and explain, freely receiving and not having to pay much time and money to study and understand and buy books and pay people. Jesus gives us freely; He used fishermen. And in the scriptures I see many very important and beneficial teachings but not something like "the resurrection of the church will be before the great tribulation".
I find it strange how ones can claim a simply worded pre-trib statement, but it takes many hours and dollars and books and word to argue it, and there is no so-clear statement of this, right in the Bible.
But ones can make up things which are not clear in scripture, and it can take a lot of money and time to pay to get them to give us what they are saying. And there can be threats against those who do not believe in pre-trib, threats that someone will miss out, and other things. But this does not prove that pre-trib is false, but that ones are holding to it in a wrong way. God knows. Even if beliefs are true, there are ones who can promote them the wrong way. So, if people have wrong ways of believing and pushing and selling something, this does not automatically mean it is wrong!
However, if a belief is not clearly stated in scripture and you hold to it, there is the risk of getting into making an idol of people who are promoting what the Bible does not say in simple and plain words. And people can make themselves like they are superior to others. Well, I can do this, myself, using what the Bible does plainly say. So, who am I to talk?
We can oversimplify ourselves to isolated verses, too, and then make things very complicated
So - - - if Jesus means He will resurrect His bride church "immediately after the tribulation of those days" > Matthew 24:29-31 < then this is good, if this is what Jesus means.
Whenever Jesus comes, this will be good, of course ! ! !
If Jesus comes after the greatest tribulation ever, this will be good, and God is easily able to keep us loving and serving Him, no matter what we go through. So, there is no reason to fear post-trib.
Our Heavenly Father is not like an abusive dad who can beat his well-behaved children along with his naughty kids. So, God is easily able to control Himself from hurting His children while He is exerting His wrath judgments. And it is clear that not all people will be killed during the great tribulation. So, if evil people won't all be killed, because of God in control deciding who dies and who does not, certainly we in Jesus have no reason to fear His wrath judgments hurting us.
And while His wrath judgments are messing with evil people, I consider, how much can they do to us?
"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)
Nothing can happen except in God's perfect control of every detail. And if we obey Jesus in His peace in us, "you will find rest for your souls", He unconditionally guarantees . . . meaning, though, how this is possible with God. So, in case someone is living weak and not in obedience to God's peace, this person can easily get into trouble about circumstances and wishfully believe that he or she won't go through a great tribulation. But even if you are weak now, God is able to make us stronger in Jesus love. So, don't base a belief on how you are weak or failing, now
The real God is so more than any power of evil (1 John 4:4). But, most of all, this means He is able to change us to be like His Son Jesus, so we are really ready for the rapture. Jesus says "be ready", in Matthew 24:44. So, it is important not to let our attention be tricked into arguing about beliefs . . . instead of becoming all which Jesus means by "ready".
You might notice how certain ones arguing for pre-trib or for post-trib are not giving as much attention to how Jesus means for us to "be ready". Make sure your attention is with God and how He guides you, including through His correction >
Hebrews 12:4-11.
"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)
"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)
"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)
This is all how God does this in us, not depending on ourselves to get our own selves to do this >
"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
God is the One who is spiritual enough (2 Corinthians 3:5, 2 Corinthians 12:7-15). We all need more correction and maturation. No one of us has somehow been superior to anyone else so we have gotten our own selves to succeed in this while others have failed. We all have needed the same basic correction . . . of His love's perfection (1 John 4:17-18) making us conformed to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29. God is the One who is spiritual enough to take you, just as you are, and bless you how He knows His word means to Him > Isaiah 11:55. This is better than what I or any other human can tell you
So, submit to Himself, all the time, for all which is possible with Him
And, of course, He includes us in helping one another with this. Because our Heavenly Father is about family loving.
God bless you
Bill