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Why do Christians have trouble with accepting Evolution?

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Hieronymus

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Actually, "evolution" is a mystical term.
Yes, and it's the backbone of new age thinking, in both spiritual and physical sense, introduced in our culture by theosophy mid 19th century.
It's what inspired Darwin.
First used by writers in the Christian mystical tradition.
That would be Catholic or Orthodox, i gather?
It's not Biblical a.f.a.i.k.
 
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Hieronymus

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It has no God. It scoffs at things like resurrection of the dead, and at the existence of men like Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. You can say that they dont have an opinion about those things, but they do, even if they dont know or admit it, and ToE undermines the scriptures.
There are many quotes from evolutionists where they admit (usually implicitly) they just don't want God in the equation.
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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It has no God. It scoffs at things like resurrection of the dead, and at the existence of men like Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. You can say that they dont have an opinion about those things, but they do, even if they dont know or admit it, and ToE undermines the scriptures.
Yes I agree it is an attempt to replace GOD and as of yet only make those that attempt to shoe horn it into the bible strain at a nat.
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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There are many quotes from evolutionists where they admit (usually implicitly) they just don't want God in the equation.
They claim there is no "proof" of GOD yet they blame every evil coming down the line on Him......this is just another definition of insanity.
 
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Rod Carty

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I think i know some key ideas. Its because it undermines the creation story and that people will become irreligious?

Well wouldnt that be an issue about the idea of the earth is flat if the bible is literal on that part i mean?

What i mean is that science explains our physicial world. The main point i am making is that Creation Story had two interpretations in medieval ages. Allegory" basically a deeper meaning than it is. Or "Literally" like just like it is written.

So basically allegory seems to be the key point then. Since that can be used. Since God is outside our understanding. Science is a method just to understand the world we live in more or less.

So i dont see the problem with evolution, because it doesnt undermine the scripture in the sense of it not being true?

Although i do believe its a shame that more people who lack understanding go away because of ignorance and just dont bother trying to understand why Christianity is a religion to help your life.

But i am curious to what you think?

Evolution is not compatible with the central message of the whole Bible, that is, God created man; man brought death into the world; man cannot be reconciled to God through his own efforts; God made a way through Jesus' death on the cross for us to be reconciled to Him. With evolution death is not an enemy, it is normal, in fact required. Thus it cannot have come from man's sin. If death is not an enemy, then how or why can Jesus save us from it?

Science itself doesn't explain our physical world. It is a method employed by humans to gain understanding of our world. Therefore it is humans who are telling us what they have learned about the world through science. When those scientists do not believe God exists when they begin their scientific research, why should I be surprised when they arrive at conclusions about the world that leave God out of it?
 
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Hieronymus

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They claim there is no "proof" of GOD yet they blame every evil coming down the line on Him......this is just another definition of insanity.
I think they usually blame religion, that is people..
 
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Hoghead1

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Eckhart was a major Roman Catholic education (1260-1326). Boehme was Protestant, very influential on the Quakers. Regarding Scripture, both Boehme and Eckhart cite Scripture as an authority . So, much depends on how you want to interpret Scripture. The mystical tradition may be well a major factor underlying New Age people. However, the movement is too popsy trendy for me to want to involve myself with it.
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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I think they usually blame religion, that is people..
Yes I agree they blame religion e.g. the people but yet we're the first ones to help those out in need including the anti-God accusers.
 
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Extraneous

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Yes I agree it is an attempt to replace GOD and as of yet only make those that attempt to shoe horn it into the bible strain at a nat.

People actually believe anything scientists tell them. They glorify scientists as if they were infallible like God. They don't see that scientists create their own false doctrines just like other people do. It seems to be a great deception that people fall into, that they would blindly follow scientists even though scientists reject Gods wisdom.
 
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Calminian

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Yes, I've narrowed it down to your argument that revelation about animal contradicts. That seems to be the only "contradiction" named in your paper.

Specifically, you say you don't like translations using the pluperfect, because there is no pluperfect in the hebrew.

There is the pluperfect theory. Accordingly, all apparent contradictions can be easily explained simply by recognizing that everything in Gen. 2 should be translated in the pluperfect tense, thereby referring right back to one. So the line should read,...So God HAD created the animals,,,” So the problem is simply generated in the reader's mind simply because the English Bible has been mistranslated here. To a lay person, this might look impressive. However, if you know anything at all about Hebrew, this solution immediately falls on its face. There is no, repeat no, pluperfect tense in Hebrew.​

Your argument, essentially, is that if there is no pluperfect per se in the hebrew, that the pluperfect translation into english should never be used.

There's a huge flaw in this argument, however. As you know, tenses in the hebrew are rarely a matter of direct translation. It's not just a matter of the imperfect = past tense and perfect = future tense, etc. For sometimes either of those tenses can be past or future tense. Translation tenses are very often a matter of context. And as you may know, the pluperfect is used in the O.T. in english translations in many cases similar to this. Take a look at 1Kings 6:9, 14, 37-38. These speak of the building and completion of the temple. It was a 13 year process. Then read this.

1Kings 7:13 Now King Solomon sent and brought Huram from Tyre. 14 He was the son of a widow from the tribe of Naphtali, and his father was a man of Tyre, a bronze worker; he was filled with wisdom and understanding and skill in working with all kinds of bronze work. So he came to King Solomon and did all his work.

1Kings 7:15 And he cast two pillars of bronze, each one eighteen cubits high, and a line of twelve cubits measured the circumference of each.​

Does this mean that chapters 6 and 7 contradict? Does this mean Huram, at that, moment built the 2 pillars. Or is it obvious the writer was speaking of a past accomplishments? I doubt you would call this a contradiction.

The same is true in the Genesis account. Whether the translator uses the pluperfect or not, there's nothing preventing the writer from referring to something in the past, if it's relevant to the story. And there's not reason the reader would not understand it that way.

Also, if what you say is true, that these originally were written separately, then it makes even more sense for the writer to clarify that God had created the animals he was about to parade before Adam so that he could name them.

What I'm saying is, you don't have to throw Genesis out, and dismiss it as allegory over something so minor and easily resolved. Especially when you can only find 1 little issue. I really think you'll be blessed if you take the account literally as it is written.
 
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lismore

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I would say that the theory is probably the most tested, by far.

Tested by people who already believe in it and have their livelihoods invested in it. Such is scientific truth.
 
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Rod Carty

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I've got no problem accepting the Theory of Evolution as the best explanation on how we got the diversity of life on this planet.

Evolution is not the only explanation of diversity. God commanded life to fill the earth, and that requires the ability to adapt to a variety of ecological environments. If evolution alone were doing it then it would take a long time and there would be many failed attempts to fill various ecological niches. The genetic change rate would be the same whether there was an environmental need to increase fitness or not. What we observe is rapid morphological and genetic change in direct response to environmental stress, and the genetic change is usually very minor, the equivalent of enabling functions that were already present in the genome.

A good example of this is Pod Mrcaru lizards. They were changed from a largely insect diet to a largely vegetative diet when they were relocated from Pod Kopiste. The lizards adapted by changing the shape and size of their beak and head, giving them stronger bite force. They also developed a cecal valve that helps to hold the plant matter longer in their stomach so they get more nutrition from it. When they compared their genomes to the parent population it was indistinguishable, meaning the genetic code for stronger bite force and cecal valve was already there, it was just not enabled until it was needed on the new island. That's not goalless evolution, that's not new traits arising out of a mass of random changes, that's design. Evolution does not fit the changes we do observe.
 
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Extraneous

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I don't see your example from Kings as a relevant comparison. If you are a student of Hebrew, then you should recognize right off that Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 are two very different literary styles. Also, you have complete ignored a number of other points I raised.

Jesus didn't think they were different. He quoted both chapters in one scripture. This is recorded in both Mathew and Mark. I believe Genesis 1 is referring to creation of the world, and chapter two refers to a specific place known as the Garden. The more i ponder it, the more it makes sense and i agree with that theory. You want to join fallible Theory of Evolution with the creation story. That seems very unwise<staff edit>. I hope one day you decide to stop trying to agree with the world <staff edit>, just as the bible teaches us.
 
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Calminian

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I don't see your example from Kings as a relevant comparison. If you are a student of Hebrew, then you should recognize right off that Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 are two very different literary styles. Also, you have complete ignored a number of other points I raised.

I realize you're conversing with a lot of people and it can get confusing. I'll remind you that I agreed with your point that Moses could have gotten Gen. 1:1-2:4 and Gen. 2:5-5:1 from two different sources. Moses to be sure wrote Genesis, but we're not told his sources for the book. I'm inclined to believe the tablet theory in some form (not the debunked documentary hypothesis).

I also made the point, that if they were indeed written long ago, perhaps even before the Flood, by different authors, then it would make sense for the author to clarify that God created the animals he was about to parade before Adam to name.

Just some things to think about, Hog. I doubt I'll convince you today. I'll just maintain the amazing reliability of this account. It truly is amazing, and reliable and historically accurate. If you enjoy it now, knowing that will magnify your adoration.
 
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Calminian

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Jesus didn't think they were different. He quoted both chapters in one scripture. This is recorded in both Mathew and Mark. I believe Genesis 1 is referring to creation of the world, and chapter two refers to a specific place known as the Garden. The more i ponder it, the more it makes sense and i agree with that theory. You want to join fallible Theory of Evolution with the creation story. That seems very unwise <staff edit>. I hope one day you decide to stop trying to agree with the world <staff edit>, just as the bible teaches us.

Yes, in fact, ch. 2 focuses in on day 6 when both Adam and Eve were created. It was a very full busy day. The Fall, however, could have happened days, weeks or even years later.

But yes, Jesus referred to these events as the "beginning of creation" placing man at the beginning of creation, along with everything else. A relatively young earth interpretation is unavoidable.
 
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Smidlee

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Jesus didn't think they were different. He quoted both chapters in one scripture. This is recorded in both Mathew and Mark. I believe Genesis 1 is referring to creation of the world, and chapter two refers to a specific place known as the Garden. The more i ponder it, the more it makes sense and i agree with that theory. You want to join fallible Theory of Evolution with the creation story. That seems very unwise<staff edit>. I hope one day you decide to stop trying to agree with the world <staff edit>, just as the bible teaches us.
Also the religious principle which ToE is build upon was around during the NT times yet Jesus never mentions it.
 
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Hoghead1

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That won't work, Extraneous. If Gen. 2 is referring to a kind of second creation, what happened to all the people in Gen. 1? The Bible never speaks of any preAdamites or anything like that. Also, since 2 was written before 1, the writer did not intend it to be a second creation.
 
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Hieronymus

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Gen. 2, Cal, is definitely not talking about Day 6 from Gen. 1. The reason, as I have already pointed out, is that 2 gives a reverse chronology from the Gen. 1 account.
And i have explained this somewhere, there is no contradiction.
 
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