A godly woman

[GillDouglas]

At the time of creation God recognized that Adam by himself was not right. God, always having the relationship of the Trinity, knew that man needed companionship as well. In His final work He made Eve, the crown jewel of His creation. God created Eve in His image, the most beautiful creature, made to love and support Adam. Ever since then man and woman have been joined as one before God. A beautiful woman may be measured by her physical features, but in the Bible we understand that beauty is truly defined by her character. "She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy. She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." (Proverbs 31:20,26)

A godly woman of such character is one that strives not to go against her true purpose since the time of creation. The woman came from the side of man, and it is there she is to return. Not at his feet to be trampled on, and not at his head to compete for leadership, but at his side under his protecting arm. This is not a position of humiliation, but a station of honor. God's charge to women to submit to their husbands is great, but the responsibilities given to man are far greater. He is to honor her and love her in such a manner as to mimic the love of Christ for the Church. To care and provide for her in all the things, and cherish her always. "Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 9:9)

To submit to another is not an easy task, but it is a godly choice. Submission is a matter of trusting in God's will. Though the wife submits to the husband, the husband must first submit to Christ and learn from His example. Jesus doesn't neglect, ignore, or abuse the Church. He doesn't treat her with demeaning disrespect. He never acts arrogant or insensitive toward her. He also doesn't criticize her or make her feel invaluable. So while God gives the husband a position of leadership in relationship to his wife, He also requires a price of self-sacrifice from him. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)

It is difficult to discuss such things we find to be culturally challenging in this day in age. Many would say that what is said about women is out of date, and too patriarchal. But let me remind you that in all things we do to glorify God, sacrificing your selfish ambitions for the sake of others is the greatest thing we can do, second only to loving God. For the godly woman, in sacrificing the independence of her youth and submitting to her husband as her head, has the single greatest position of honor and glory to God. "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3)

 

[HonestTruth]

Good analysis. God ought to send at least one such woman into my life (note the earlier discussion on biblical polygyny). Be nice if women like that came into my life but as it is written in the Bible, a man can have nothing unless God gives it to him. Which means that if someone like me doesn't have one it's because this god has chosen to deny me what I needed. God is so terribly unfair, isn't he.

 

[GillDouglas]

He gives us exactly what we need, regardless.

 

[HonestTruth]

God ought to read his own words in Gen 2:18 ~ "“It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”"

 

[Djseb]

I agree with what you've written 100% and think its absolutely beautiful and biblical. Having been a hardened feminist most of my life, I find that being a daughter of the Most High releases me from wanting "all things equal." I don't have to fight for my rights, He does it for me.

At the time of creation God recognized that Adam by himself was not right. God, always having the relationship of the Trinity, knew that man needed companionship as well. In His final work He made Eve, the crown jewel of His creation. God created Eve in His image, the most beautiful creature, made to love and support Adam. Ever since then man and woman have been joined as one before God. A beautiful woman may be measured by her physical features, but in the Bible we understand that beauty is truly defined by her character. "She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy. She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." (Proverbs 31:20,26)

A godly woman of such character is one that strives not to go against her true purpose since the time of creation. The woman came from the side of man, and it is there she is to return. Not at his feet to be trampled on, and not at his head to compete for leadership, but at his side under his protecting arm. This is not a position of humiliation, but a station of honor. God's charge to women to submit to their husbands is great, but the responsibilities given to man are far greater. He is to honor her and love her in such a manner as to mimic the love of Christ for the Church. To care and provide for her in all the things, and cherish her always. "Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 9:9)

To submit to another is not an easy task, but it is a godly choice. Submission is a matter of trusting in God's will. Though the wife submits to the husband, the husband must first submit to Christ and learn from His example. Jesus doesn't neglect, ignore, or abuse the Church. He doesn't treat her with demeaning disrespect. He never acts arrogant or insensitive toward her. He also doesn't criticize her or make her feel invaluable. So while God gives the husband a position of leadership in relationship to his wife, He also requires a price of self-sacrifice from him. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)

It is difficult to discuss such things we find to be culturally challenging in this day in age. Many would say that what is said about women is out of date, and too patriarchal. But let me remind you that in all things we do to glorify God, sacrificing your selfish ambitions for the sake of others is the greatest thing we can do, second only to loving God. For the godly woman, in sacrificing the independence of her youth and submitting to her husband as her head, has the single greatest position of honor and glory to God. "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3)

 

[Djseb]

God ought to read his own words in Gen 2:18 ~ "“It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”"

How about, "Thy will be done Lord, not mine".

 

[GillDouglas]

I agree with what you've written 100% and think its absolutely beautiful and biblical. Having been a hardened feminist most of my life, I find that being a daughter of the Most High releases me from wanting "all things equal." I don't have to fight for my rights, He does it for me.

@Djseb I humbly thank you for your comments. It is great to hear from a woman that agrees with my understanding of these points in Scripture. It can seem a bit biased coming from a man, one who is also a husband himself.

The world that we live in today screams for equality and fights the nature in which they were designed for. But as you know, being an enlightened daughter of our Creator, we are not of this world and are only passing through. We must be the example and give ourselves freely to His plan. Thanks again, and God bless you!

 

[Djseb]

@Djseb I humbly thank you for your comments. It is great to hear from a woman that agrees with my understanding of these points in Scripture. It can seem a bit biased coming from a man, one who is also a husband himself.

The world that we live in today screams for equality and fights the nature in which they were designed for. But as you know, being an enlightened daughter of our Creator, we are not of this world and are only passing through. We must be the example and give ourselves freely to His plan. Thanks again, and God bless you!

Greetings in the love of our Lord. I think the position I have taken isn't so much as where I fit in but rather where I am placed in God's order of things. It all has to do with the order of creation and once you've accepted that, everything else falls into place. This view as you can imagine did not come easy to me as my mother was a die-hard feminist and so I had to unlearn all the things I was brought up with. But my God is patient and although I've had to learn painful lessons, it was well worth it. I am at peace with who I am and what I am. Keep on spreading the good WORD... and be blessed.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Man lost godliness when eve chose knowledge of gud & evil (kge). Now even churches prmote kge considering it a virtue. It was not nudity that separated man from God but this kge. Once kge came nudity became an immorality. But Jesus made moral law dead-rom7:1-4.

 

[LauraAviel]

This view as you can imagine did not come easy to me as my mother was a die-hard feminist and so I had to unlearn all the things I was brought up with. But my God is patient and although I've had to learn painful lessons, it was well worth it. I am at peace with who I am and what I am. Keep on spreading the good WORD... and be blessed.

I am totally agreeing with you Djseb, my mother was also the "we don't need a man for anything" type. I am still on the journey of "unlearning" some of the things I have been taught and understanding the true meaning of submission and that there can be peace in that, although don't misunderstand me, I bless her in my heart and I am thankful for all the useful things she has taught me (like changing a tire and wiring a lamp ).

To submit to another is not an easy task, but it is a godly choice. Submission is a matter of trusting in God's will. Though the wife submits to the husband, the husband must first submit to Christ and learn from His example. Jesus doesn't neglect, ignore, or abuse the Church. He doesn't treat her with demeaning disrespect. He never acts arrogant or insensitive toward her. He also doesn't criticize her or make her feel invaluable. So while God gives the husband a position of leadership in relationship to his wife, He also requires a price of self-sacrifice from him. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)

And thank you GillDouglas for your words, I have been spending a lot of time on the topic of submission lately and your comments and wonderfully respectful view of a woman's submission have really helped me get a step further in my journey to truly finding peace but also joy in my role as a woman as God intended it to be.

Society teaches us so much (excuse my language) crap nowadays. I think that many of us women have forgotten about the honor and joy that comes with being a woman. We have been taught for so long now th. at it is the highest goal to be like man, no even worse, to erase all gender, that we have forgotten the beauty of our differences.

 

[faroukfarouk]

At the time of creation God recognized that Adam by himself was not right. God, always having the relationship of the Trinity, knew that man needed companionship as well. In His final work He made Eve, the crown jewel of His creation. God created Eve in His image, the most beautiful creature, made to love and support Adam. Ever since then man and woman have been joined as one before God. A beautiful woman may be measured by her physical features, but in the Bible we understand that beauty is truly defined by her character. "She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy. She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." (Proverbs 31:20,26)

A godly woman of such character is one that strives not to go against her true purpose since the time of creation. The woman came from the side of man, and it is there she is to return. Not at his feet to be trampled on, and not at his head to compete for leadership, but at his side under his protecting arm. This is not a position of humiliation, but a station of honor. God's charge to women to submit to their husbands is great, but the responsibilities given to man are far greater. He is to honor her and love her in such a manner as to mimic the love of Christ for the Church. To care and provide for her in all the things, and cherish her always. "Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that he has given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 9:9)

To submit to another is not an easy task, but it is a godly choice. Submission is a matter of trusting in God's will. Though the wife submits to the husband, the husband must first submit to Christ and learn from His example. Jesus doesn't neglect, ignore, or abuse the Church. He doesn't treat her with demeaning disrespect. He never acts arrogant or insensitive toward her. He also doesn't criticize her or make her feel invaluable. So while God gives the husband a position of leadership in relationship to his wife, He also requires a price of self-sacrifice from him. "Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)

It is difficult to discuss such things we find to be culturally challenging in this day in age. Many would say that what is said about women is out of date, and too patriarchal. But let me remind you that in all things we do to glorify God, sacrificing your selfish ambitions for the sake of others is the greatest thing we can do, second only to loving God. For the godly woman, in sacrificing the independence of her youth and submitting to her husband as her head, has the single greatest position of honor and glory to God. "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3)

Some good comments about the Creational aspect.

Some really conservative churches miss the point, though, when you have ppl thinking that being "correct" means, for a wife, loose hair, no pants, no tattoos, no working outside the house, and so forth.

 

[tdidymas]

God ought to read his own words in Gen 2:18 ~ "“It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”"

Twice you said, "God ought..." - so then, are you making up rules for God?
Nyuk, nyuk.
TD

 

[LilyBelle]

I am going to play the other side of the field. Keep in mind I am expressing my understanding of my Nazarene theology, so obviously, there will be differences, but I am giving food for thought.

God created Eve to be Adam's partner; she was created from his side as an equal. Being a partner does not mean you must bend to your spouse. That means you work together, as a team, both submitting and sacrificing their selfishness over themselves to selflessly give. That's what love is, by the way. Here is some cultural background: Hebrew culture values naming. To name something or someone is symbolic of showing ownership; or that you are the caretaker and over the other object/person. In Genesis, God names Adam, showing he is the caretaker of him. God instructs Adam to name the animals, showing that mankind is in charge of being stewards and taking care of God's creation. Note that Adam never names Eve until AFTER they sinned in an act of disobedience.

The way I define sin, however, is not the thing in itself. Sin, in according to scripture, is a break in relationship. Lying is not a sin because it's a lie. Lying is a sin because it breaks trust. Murder is not a sin because it's murder, murder is a sin because you literally destroy the relationship between you and that person, or any chance of continuing/building that relationship. Sin is brokenness and destruction, because that is what it causes between people. So, when Adam and Eve sinned, they broke the equal partnership God had created right from the beginning. We were intended to be helpers of one another, never masters over each other. After all, as Christians, we are only to serve one master, and that is God, our Savior.

The "curse" of mankind's sin is more than just labor pains for women and working the earth for men. The biggest curse is that of man over woman; wives must submit to their husbands. Sadly, sin has created a culture that has embedded itself in not just our Western culture, but every culture around he world. Sin has created a shame culture, a patriarchy that tells women that they can't be Christian if they don't serve their husbands or look out for themselves. A culture that tells men that your wife must meet your every whim because the Bible says so.

My husband, who is a pastor, had a long talk about this with me before we got married. He told me something that utterly shocked me because I have never heard of such a notion. He didn't want to follow this route of sin. He told me that as a Christian following after God's own heart, his purpose is to rise above selfishness and the ways of the world. Our world says this is appropriate, even the New Testament reflects patriarchy because it was culturally accepted. But Jesus rejected it, appointing women as leaders, ministers, and missionaries. The biggest question for him was, if this broken relationship between men and women is a sin, then why are we still continuing to follow this? Why are we not trying to rise above the brokeness and treat each other like equals, as God intended it to be?

I never doubt my husband treats me less than an equal, because we make important decisions together, we work out our problems, we compromise. We submit to each other, because that is what Jesus would do. My husband has defended me in front of other men, even his mother, for saying that he's the "man of the house" and needs to "make decisions instead of me" and stated that, No, my wife is my partner and we do things together. That is the way it's supposed to be.
If you're going to get anything out of this, even if you disagree with me, let me tell you, your godly woman needs to be your partner, your teammate. One thing I've learned from my marriage is that if you spend more time focusing on how to serve each other rather than measuring how little/more your spouse serves you, you will find a lot more joy in your relationship with your spouse.

 

[GillDouglas]

<snip>

@LilyBelle Thank you very much for your message. You have provided some really good points. Of course, because of our vast theological differences, we may never agree on all points but one certainly we can. A man and a wife are two parts of a whole, working as 'One Flesh', rather than individually. The point I mean to drive in my original post is that despite what culture is telling us, men and women are vastly different. This is not to say that a woman is incapable of doing things a man can, and vice versa (except bearing children).

However, I would suggest that I may be better suited at certain things than my wife because I am more brawn than brains, and she is quite the opposite because of our God given design. I would be in a better position to protect the family from a pack of wolves, or deal with a black widow spider than my wife because of our differences. She is better suited at providing comfort to one of our sick or injured children because of her nature. Our strengths and weaknesses together complement each other as a unit, and we are better as a team than as individuals. Of course, both of us are capable of doing what the others can do (expect I can't have babies!).

In a democracy the majority gets the vote. However in a marriage there are only two decision makers, and in a disagreement someone has to make the ultimate decision and take responsibility for that decision. In my personal opinion and in my house it is my responsibility to make the ultimate decision and deal with the consequences as the head of household. This is not to say that there isn't compromise on the part of the decision made, or neglect in considering my spouses opinion. I value my wife's input greatly because she brings a unique perspective with a totally different background and set of experiences. We do our best together as a unit for the benefit of our marriage in accordance with God's design in order to ultimately glorify Him.

 

[LilyBelle]

Gill Douglass, I think we agree more than what you think I agree we are physiologically different and yes, men and women have different ways of thinking, and this gives us all the more reason why we should be a team and put each other first in our marriages. I would say our only major disagreement (if you want to call it that) is who gets the final say in those big decisions. Though, every marriage is different, so lead as you feel called to lead, but don't be afraid to let your wife lead as well!

 

[spadiamond]

At the time of creation God recognized that Adam by himself was not right.

 

[Paidiske]

Why is this thread in the ministry spouses forum? It doesn't seem to pertain particularly to situations where one or both spouses are ministers?

 

[faroukfarouk]

@LilyBelle Thank you very much for your message. You have provided some really good points. Of course, because of our vast theological differences, we may never agree on all points but one certainly we can. A man and a wife are two parts of a whole, working as 'One Flesh', rather than individually. The point I mean to drive in my original post is that despite what culture is telling us, men and women are vastly different. This is not to say that a woman is incapable of doing things a man can, and vice versa (except bearing children).

However, I would suggest that I may be better suited at certain things than my wife because I am more brawn than brains, and she is quite the opposite because of our God given design. I would be in a better position to protect the family from a pack of wolves, or deal with a black widow spider than my wife because of our differences. She is better suited at providing comfort to one of our sick or injured children because of her nature. Our strengths and weaknesses together complement each other as a unit, and we are better as a team than as individuals. Of course, both of us are capable of doing what the others can do (expect I can't have babies!).

In a democracy the majority gets the vote. However in a marriage there are only two decision makers, and in a disagreement someone has to make the ultimate decision and take responsibility for that decision. In my personal opinion and in my house it is my responsibility to make the ultimate decision and deal with the consequences as the head of household. This is not to say that there isn't compromise on the part of the decision made, or neglect in considering my spouses opinion. I value my wife's input greatly because she brings a unique perspective with a totally different background and set of experiences. We do our best together as a unit for the benefit of our marriage in accordance with God's design in order to ultimately glorify Him.

Hi; in 1 Cor. 11 Paul speaks of the many faceted aspect of Christ's headship, into which the role of the husband is linked; but this does not imply any lack of equality between spouses, ass I'm sure you would agree. (In Philippians 2 Christ Himself is portrayed as subject and dependent, while remaining totally equal: 'thought it not robbery to be equal with God'.)

In the past culturally women did not participate in certain activities which now they do most assuredly as equals: professionally, educationally, personal deportment (e.g., getting tattooed was formerly a mainly male preserve but now is participated in by young women, military wives, etc.) but this need not influence the theological aspects of the issue under discussion.

 

[sdowney717]

Gen 2
18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”

23 And Adam said:

“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”

24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
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And of Christ, it is not good for Him (God) to be alone either, so then His church is as His wife as Paul so stated that this is a great mystery, v29-32. For we Paul teaches are of His flesh and of His bones.
Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

Do you understand the depth here, the great mystery, the relationship of man and wife and of Christ and His church?
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Ephesians 5:22-33New King James Version (NKJV)
Marriage—Christ and the Church
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.

29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

 

[GillDouglas]

Why is this thread in the ministry spouses forum? It doesn't seem to pertain particularly to situations where one or both spouses are ministers?

I don't believe I originally posted it here, to be honest I don't remember. You're welcome to move it where you feel it is appropriate.