Post-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

ewq1938

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Actually, yes. The 7yrs is the original plan, but he "cancels" it halfway through.


No, it simply is only 3.5 years now. It isn't "cancelled" mid way. Revelation makes that perfectly clear. The beast only has 42 months to reign. It's not that it has 84 months then something interrupts that half way through.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
 
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ewq1938

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I do agree with you that the days are shortened to 3.5 years. This is only the rule of the Antichrist and the false prophet.

The Antichrist and prophet are the same person. It is the first beast of Rev 13 (a political system not a person) and the Ac/false prophet that have 42 months to reign.


But the treaty is meant to last for 7 years.

There is no such thing in the entirety of Revelation. You refer to something that God changed long ago and no longer applies.
 
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Luke17:37

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The Antichrist and prophet are the same person. It is the first beast of Rev 13 (a political system not a person) and the Ac/false prophet that have 42 months to reign.




There is no such thing in the entirety of Revelation. You refer to something that God changed long ago and no longer applies.

The antichrist and the false prophet are not the same person.

Revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Their united reign is 42 months. This is the ugliest time. But personally I think the beast of the sea is the conqueror in Seal 1, or the Antichrist, and that he is on the scene setting things up before the false prophet (beast of the earth) comes later and causes all to worship him (the beast of the sea) and take a mark in his honor.
 
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ewq1938

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The antichrist and the false prophet are not the same person.

They are the same, just two names for the same person and there are more names than just those two.


Revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Their united reign is 42 months. This is the ugliest time. But personally I think the beast of the sea is the conqueror in Seal 1, or the Antichrist, and that he is on the scene setting things up before the false prophet (beast of the earth) comes later and causes all to worship him (the beast of the sea) and take a mark in his honor.

Rev explains the first beast is a large territory controlled by ten kings. The second beast of Rev 13 is an individual and is therefore the only person that could possibly be the Antichrist.
 
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Luke17:37

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They are the same, just two names for the same person and there are more names than just those two.




Rev explains the first beast is a large territory controlled by ten kings. The second beast of Rev 13 is an individual and is therefore the only person that could possibly be the Antichrist.

You aren't putting up with sound doctrine. I'm not debating that there's a kingdom associated with the first beast. But kingdoms have kings. Besides the kingdom stuff, Revelation 13 and Revelation 19 describe two individuals whose bodies will be thrown alive into the Lake of Fire. The false prophet makes people worship the Antichrist, who sets himself up to be God.
 
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ewq1938

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You aren't putting up with sound doctrine. I'm not debating that there's a kingdom associated with the first beast. But kingdoms have kings.

It has 10 kings. It is not until the little horn/false prophet that the first beast has a singular leader.


Besides the kingdom stuff, Revelation 13 and Revelation 19 describe two individuals whose bodies will be thrown alive into the Lake of Fire.

No individuals are described actually. Both are intangible aspects of satan's way of ruling. The beast is his political way, the false prophet is his religious way. He gave power to the beast, and he was the religious leader who pretended to be God which is known as false prophet and Antichrist. Both of Satan's ways to rule the world are destroyed leaving him weakened, then he is bound and imprisoned which makes him fully powerless until God lets him go out and deceive one last time.
 
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Luke17:37

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It has 10 kings. It is not until the little horn/false prophet that the first beast has a singular leader.




No individuals are described actually. Both are intangible aspects of satan's way of ruling. The beast is his political way, the false prophet is his religious way. He gave power to the beast, and he was the religious leader who pretended to be God which is known as false prophet and Antichrist. Both of Satan's ways to rule the world are destroyed leaving him weakened, then he is bound and imprisoned which makes him fully powerless until God lets him go out and deceive one last time.

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I interpret this mouth of the beast as from a man. Plus, a kingdom can't be thrown alive into the Lake of Fire but a man can.
 
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ewq1938

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5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I interpret this mouth of the beast as from a man.


A kingdom can speak metaphorically. The other problem is the explanation of what this beast is in Rev 17 does not say it is a single man but something spanning 7 territories with ten kings within it. It is obviously the same type of political governing beast that Daniel also saw.


Plus, a kingdom can't be thrown alive into the Lake of Fire but a man can.

Anything can be because there is no literal lake. It represents how God destroys something. When the beast is cast in, it means that global government is gone forever...satan will never rule the whole world again. When the false prophet is cast in, it means he can never deceive the world in a religious sense again.

I know the face value, plain reading makes it look like a big monster and a man is cast into a lake made of fire but it isn't that way anymore than Satan being a giant dragon/serpent or anymore than a giant 7 headed monster with ten horns will rise out of the ocean. Revelation isn't all metaphors but a lot of it is. I don't expect agreement, I am just sharing my understanding.
 
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Luke17:37

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A kingdom can speak metaphorically. The other problem is the explanation of what this beast is in Rev 17 does not say it is a single man but something spanning 7 territories with ten kings within it. It is obviously the same type of political governing beast that Daniel also saw.




Anything can be because there is no literal lake. It represents how God destroys something. When the beast is cast in, it means that global government is gone forever...satan will never rule the whole world again. When the false prophet is cast in, it means he can never deceive the world in a religious sense again.

I know the face value, plain reading makes it look like a big monster and a man is cast into a lake made of fire but it isn't that way anymore than Satan being a giant dragon/serpent or anymore than a giant 7 headed monster with ten horns will rise out of the ocean. Revelation isn't all metaphors but a lot of it is. I don't expect agreement, I am just sharing my understanding.

The Lake of Fire is a real physical place of eternal torture where Satan, his demons, and all who haven't repented and trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins will go. You don't believe this? This is what we get saved from.

Revelation 20:13-15
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Jesus referred to the destination of the wicked as a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth." This is NOT an allegory. They won't simply cease to exist. They will be tortured forever, which is something impossible to wrap our finite minds around. This is why we must diligently hold fast to our faith and be willing to share the gospel with a world of lost souls before it's too late for them.

Jesus talked about hell a lot.

For example:

Matthew 24:51
...and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:30
And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Luke 12:4-5
4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Mark 9:43-44
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—44 where
Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.


Matthew 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 16:19-31 is an awful parable of the rich man in torment.

I am convinced that two men (one, who is worshipped as a God and the other who compelled people to worship the first) are cast into the literal lake of fire. Satan himself is bound for one thousand years, and thrown into the lake of fire after his final act of insurrection (deceiving people to fight in the Gog/Magog battle).

No, we can't agree.
 
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ewq1938

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The Lake of Fire is a real physical place of eternal torture where Satan, his demons, and all who haven't repented and trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins will go. You don't believe this? This is what we get saved from.

I believe it's a metaphor for how God destroys something.



Jesus referred to the destination of the wicked as a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth." This is NOT an allegory. They won't simply cease to exist. They will be tortured forever, which is something impossible to wrap our finite minds around.

Wrong. All scriptures regarding the fate of the wicked, unsaved speak about them being destroyed, facing the second death not receiving eternal life in torture.
 
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Luke17:37

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I believe it's a metaphor for how God destroys something.





Wrong. All scriptures regarding the fate of the wicked, unsaved speak about them being destroyed, facing the second death not receiving eternal life in torture.

No, you are wrong. Just go back and read some of the verses I cited. Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. It's eternal life in the presence of God or eternal death in a place of torture. Your choice.

Here's one more:

Revelation 14:9-11
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
 
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ewq1938

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No, you are wrong. Just go back and read some of the verses I cited. Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. It's eternal life in the presence of God or eternal death in a place of torture.

You don't know the difference between the lake of fire and Hades?


Here's one more:

Revelation 14:9-11
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Smoke ascending forever doesn't mean they are alive and the no rest day and night has the present tense "worship" so it's talking about when they are alive and worshiping not later when they are in the lake of fire.

So it boils down to this:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Scripture states those in the fire are dead, but YOU say they are alive.

That's an easy choice for me to make as to which is correct.
 
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Luke17:37

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You don't know the difference between the lake of fire and Hades?




Smoke ascending forever doesn't mean they are alive and the no rest day and night has the present tense "worship" so it's talking about when they are alive and worshiping not later when they are in the lake of fire.

So it boils down to this:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Scripture states those in the fire are dead, but YOU say they are alive.

That's an easy choice for me to make as to which is correct.

Lazarus and the rich man is a parable to illustrate the permanence and torture of eternal death.

Hades goes into the Lake of Fire.

You are deceived. Second death is eternal. It's not a state of sleep. It's not a case of being burned up and existing no more. It's a state of torture. Forever. This is a fundamental truth.

Believe the truth.

I'm not going to write you anymore about this.
 
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ewq1938

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Lazarus and the rich man is a parable to illustrate the permanence and torture of eternal death.

Hades goes into the Lake of Fire.

You are deceived. Second death is eternal. It's not a state of sleep. It's not a case of being burned up and existing no more. It's a state of torture. Forever. This is a fundamental truth.

Well that simply isn't scriptural. I have proven that the second death is exactly what it says, a death. The unsaved DO NOT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE in any form.
 
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mike van wyk

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Well that simply isn't scriptural. I have proven that the second death is exactly what it says, a death. The unsaved DO NOT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE in any form.
The unsaved wil go to hel for this is their punishment by rejecting Christ and the mercy of God. They wil be judged according to the books and the book of life wil be opened to see if their name is written.
 
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ewq1938

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The unsaved wil go to hel for this is their punishment by rejecting Christ and the mercy of God. They wil be judged according to the books and the book of life wil be opened to see if their name is written.


Yes, but to say they live forever is unscriptural. I understand it is a common belief but that does not make it true.
 
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mike van wyk

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Yes, but to say they live forever is unscriptural. I understand it is a common belief but that does not make it true.
It is obvious that they must be alive to be tormented by the lake of fire. Hel is real it is not a place to be for us. It is only the ungodly who continued in sin that wil be punished with the devil and his demons. What is the reason for punishment if i am not alive?
 
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ewq1938

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It is obvious that they must be alive to be tormented by the lake of fire.

Which contradicts the promise of the "second death." You are talking about a "second life".
 
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