Your posts reveal all the poor scholarship of your group. And the total tolerance of its members to this ignorance.God's Law was never made for man to break/tweak/edit. That is Christ's entire point in Mark 7:6-13
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Your posts reveal all the poor scholarship of your group. And the total tolerance of its members to this ignorance.God's Law was never made for man to break/tweak/edit. That is Christ's entire point in Mark 7:6-13
I know of only one [person] that was "suspended" to "save lives" [from sin, 1 John 3:4], and that was Jesus Christ, upon the Cross of Calvary, because of the Transgression of His Holy law, the Ten Commandments, magnifying it forever, and making it honourable [Isaiah 42:21]. The death of Jesus Christ proves the immutability of God's Holy, Just, and Perfect Law, the Ten Commandments. God is Just and the Justifier......Similarly, the Sabbath is suspended to save lives, to rescue drowning animals, to heal the sick...
I know of only one [person] that was "suspended" to "save lives" [from sin, 1 John 3:4], and that was Jesus Christ, upon the Cross of Calvary, because of the Transgression of His Holy law, the Ten Commandments, magnifying it forever, and making it honourable [Isaiah 42:21]. The death of Jesus Christ proves the immutability of God's Holy, Just, and Perfect Law, the Ten Commandments. God is Just and the Justifier...
The Holy 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God suspended? Never. In the cases of the sick, injured, hurt, etc, it is "doing well" upon the Sabbath to bring relief from suffering, to save the life, etc. It is keeping the Sabbath, not suspending it in any form. It is not secular/profane/common [Leviticus 10:10; Nehemiah 13:17; Ezekiel 22:26; Ezekiel 44:23] work to do any of those things, but always in harmony with God's upholding and restorative work, that holy work, which Jesus Christ [also Father, and Holy Spirit] never ceases to do.
Matthew 12:12 KJB - How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
John 5:17 KJB - But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jesus Christ quoted Isaiah 61 [breaking of sin] in Luke 4:17-19. Isaiah 61, is but the continuation of Isaiah 56 and 58. Read Isaiah 56:1 and Isaiah 56:8, then turn to John 10:16, and then turn back to Isaiah 56:2-7, and ask yourself what "covenant" is being referred to in the matter of "everlasting", "righteousness", "salvation" in connection with the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, the Holy 7th Day [in which Jesus Christ Himself rested in His death] and then continue with and onto Isaiah 58, and read the true fast from selfishness, and reliance upon self [hence we cease from secular labour, and rely moreso upon God in His Holy day], and the fulfillment of the law of love, in the matter of true Sabbath-keeping. Then turn over to Job 29 for the connection to the Third Angels message and the Latter Rain, of Revelation 18:1-3...
Trample upon the Holy Sabbath Day, and a person tramples upon the Person who made it Holy, not only by His creation and blessing and hallowing it, but by His very life/death to save those from transgression of His Holy Law. They which do not rest, even against the Holy Commandment delivered unto them [2 Peter 2:21; Exodus 20:8-11], are seeking their own form of righteousness/law before God and are not ceased from the enmity toward God:
Romans 8:7 KJV - Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
And if they are not subject to the Law of the Kingdom, they are not subject to the King of the Kingdom and are still at war with Him, not at rest and atonement with Him. If they do not repent, even after knowing, they shall perish as traitors against love/charity, even as it is written:
Philippians 3:18 KJB - (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:
2 Peter 2:19 KJB - While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
John 8:34 KJB - Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Acts 8:23 KJB - For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and [in] the bond of iniquity.
Acts 4:24 KJB - And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Acts 14:15 KJB - And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Acts 14:16 KJB - Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
Acts 17:30 KJB - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
That you seem to be taking the same exact position as the sinful pharisees in this matter, against Jesus, means that you, if it be so, have the same spirit of accusation as them. Are you accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath of the LORD God, as they did? If so, you are in danger brother, of following them to their destination. Please, think about what you are actually saying in taking the position that Jesus broke the Sabbath in any way:Did you even get the comprehension of the fact that Jesus was being accused of breaking the Sabbath?
That you seem to be taking the same exact position as the sinful pharisees in this matter, against Jesus, means that you, if it be so, have the same spirit of accusation as them. Are you accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath of the LORD God, as they did? If so, you are in danger brother, of following them to their destination. Please, think about what you are actually saying in taking the position that Jesus broke the Sabbath in any way:John 8:21 KJB - Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.Who do you believe, them or Jesus?Isaiah 42:21 KJB - The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.John 15:10 KJB - "... I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."The corrupted and self-centered Religious leaders, these particular pharisees, etc were the ones who had the spirit of their father the devil [John 8:44], being satan, the accuser [Revelation 12:10], and accused Jesus of many things, falsely, and in misunderstanding, even as they had of John the Baptist [the herald of the First Advent], for in their hearts they were the murderers, transgressing the commandments, they were the true Sabbath breakers, while Christ Jesus restored it to what it was always meant to be:Matthew 11:18 KJB - For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.Luke 7:33 KJB - For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.They were accusers of Him who is without sin, the innocent blood:John 18:29 KJV - Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?They accused Him of Blasphemy:Matthew 26:65 KJB - Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.Mark 14:64 KJB - Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.John 10:33 KJB - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.They falsely accused Jesus of being a "winebibber", a "drunkard" and "gluttonous":Matthew 11:19 KJB - The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.Luke 7:34 KJB - The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!They falsely accused Him of being devil possessed:Mark 3:22 KJB - And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.John 7:20 KJB - The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?John 8:48 KJB - Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?John 8:52 KJB - Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.John 10:20 KJB - And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?John 10:21 KJB - Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?They falsely accused Him of casting out devils by the devil:Matthew 12:24 KJB - But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.They falsely accused Him of being a seditious rebel, like Barabbas, perverting the nation:Luke 23:2 KJB - And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this [fellow] perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.Luke 23:5 KJB - And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.They falsely accused Him of being not of God:John 9:16 KJB - Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.Yet, Jesus said of Himself:John 8:49 KJB - Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.Others said, even as True witnesses [compared to the false witnesses], even later His own enemies:"holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:"...lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]" But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]"...the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]"...For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]" Have thou nothing to do with that just man " [Matthew 27:19]" Why, what evil hath he done? " [Matthew 27:23]" I am innocent of the blood of this just person " [Matthew 27:24]"The said Pilate I find no fault in this man. [Luke 23:4]" Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]" what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]"...lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]"...this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]" Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." [John 9:31]"...I have kept my Father's commandments..." [John 15:10]"...I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]"...the obedience of one..." [Romans 5:19]"...who knew no sin..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]"...without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]"...[who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." [Hebrews 7:26]"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]"...in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]The scripture declares who the real sinners and Sabbath breakers were, it was those murderous and plotting pharisees, who while seeking to accuse Jesus, to find fault with Him, and plotted against Him how they might overcome Him, and to kill Jesus upon the Sabbath are seen in their stark and hateful contrast to the compassionate, loving restorer and Saviour of life, Jesus Christ, who in His work, healed, delivered, saved, restored, gave rest to those in pain, suffering, mourning, shewing mercy, demonstrating the fulfillment of love, etc upon the Sabbath, showing all mankind the perfect loving example of what True Sabbath keeping was to be.Jesus healed a man lame in his legs for 38 years [John 5:5] [even as Israel in the wilderness for 38 years; Deuteronomy 2:14], because of sin. Jesus is looking to heal our walk upon the Sabbath, leading us back in the Way of God, His Commandments, Honouring our Father in Heaven, calling the Sabbath a delight, Honourable, Honouring Him in it [Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:12], that we may be able to walk once more with Him upon the Sabbath in righteousness, as it was from Creation.Jesus healed a man with a withered hand in the gathering upon Sabbath [Matthew 12:9-15; Mark 3:1-6; Luke 6:6-11], and it was the "right hand" [thus a connection to the Seal and Mark]. This man, a church [Acts 7:38] goer, was crippled in his right hand, thus as we see, he represents those in the church whose right hand is withered, their obedience to the Commandments of God is withered, crippled, their actions enfeebled in true service, and yet Jesus would come to them and heal their limp and lifeless service to Him, and make it vibrant again. The right hand is also connected to God's Law, being then also connected to the Seal of the Living God, and also to the Mark of the Beast, for those who take the Mark of the Beast, shall indeed receive a crippling mark in the right hand, for they will have forsaken the right way, and chosen the commandments of men over the Commandments of God, and remain as sinners in the bondage, chains of sin.Jesus healed a blind man [John 9:1-41] on the Sabbath, restoring the sight not only physically, but also spiritually, so that He could not only see the Saviour physically, but also see that He was truly the Saviour, the Messiah, the Christ, the sent of God. As it is written, Laodicea is blind [Revelation 3:17-18], and needs also the restoring and saving power of Jesus Christ to heal them, from their own blindness, that they may see the beauty of Christ Jesus, the LORD of the Sabbath, and what ought needs be done therein. Turn to Isaiah 58 and Isaiah 61 and Job 29, and read wherein the healing of the sight needs to happen, so that the blind may see again the glory of the LORD, and see their fellow man, lost in sin and in suffering, and take the Everlasting Gospel to them. Jesus did this very thing in Luke 4:17-32]. If any choose to remain blind as the pharisees of old, they will fall into the ditch, for that ditch, spiritually, is the "harlot" [Proverbs 23:27], and her harlot daughters, and that "harlot" is found in Revelation 17:1-18, Revelation 19:2. Her mark is the false sabbath - "sunday". God's Seal is the 7th Day of which the Holy Spirit seals those who love God and keep His Commandments with.Jesus is looking to restore the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God to this world [as so many have forgotten it, trample upon its sacred hours, and upon Him who makes it Holy], and to give them rest, from sin [1 John 3:4].It truly is amazing, that those that fight and war against God and resist Him in keeping the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD [Jesus] thy God Holy, thus desecrating it, do all in their power to tear that single Holy Commandment from the heart of God's Law, and say all manner of things in contradiction to one another, presenting all manner of "lame" excuses, arguments to continue in sin [1 John 3:4] in spite of the grace of God [Romans 6:1], but none of them in that treasonous apostasy [against the Kingdom, Law of God's own government] and open rebellion, agree with one another over it, except in their hatred of it, even as they had over the LORD of it:Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put Him to death; (Matthew 26:59)But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, (Matthew 26:60)For many bare false witness against Him, but their witness agreed not together. (Mark 14:56)And there arose certain, and bare false witness against Him, saying, (Mark 14:57)But neither so did their witness agree together. (Mark 14:59)"... [Page 208] Jesus repelled the charge of blasphemy. My authority, He said, for doing the work of which you accuse Me, is that I am the Son of God, one with Him in nature, in will, and in purpose. In all His works of creation and providence, I co-operate with God. “The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do.” The priests and rabbis were taking the Son of God to task for the very work He had been sent into the world to do. By their sins they had separated themselves from God, and in their pride were moving independently of Him. They felt sufficient in themselves for all things, and realized no need of a higher wisdom to direct their acts. But the Son of God was surrendered to the Father’s will, and dependent upon His power. So utterly was Christ emptied of self that He made no plans for Himself. He accepted God’s plans for Him, and day by day the Father unfolded His plans. So should we depend upon God, that our lives may be the simple outworking of His will.When Moses was about to build the sanctuary as a dwelling place for God, he was directed to make all things according to the pattern shown him in the mount. Moses was full of zeal to do God’s work; the most talented, skillful men were at hand to carry out his suggestions. Yet he was not to make a bell, a pomegranate, a tassel, a fringe, a curtain, or any vessel of the sanctuary, except according to the pattern shown him. God called him into the mount, and revealed to him the heavenly things. The Lord covered him with His own glory, that he might see [Page 208-209] the pattern, and according to it all things were made. So to Israel, whom He desired to make His dwelling place, He had revealed His glorious ideal of character. The pattern was shown them in the mount when the law was given from Sinai, and when the Lord passed by before Moses and proclaimed, “The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.” Exodus 34:6, 7.Israel had chosen their own ways. They had not builded according to the pattern; but Christ, the true temple for God’s indwelling, molded every detail of His earthly life in harmony with God’s ideal. He said, “I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart.” Psalm 40:8. So our characters are to be builded “for an habitation of God through the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:22. And we are to “make all things according to the pattern,” even Him who “suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps.” Hebrews 8:5; 1 Peter 2:21. [Page 209] ..." - The Desire of Ages, Page 208-209, selected portions, by Ellen G White [Messenger of the LORD [Jesus]]. - http://text.egwwritings.org/publica...g=en&collection=2§ion=all&pagenumber=2081 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.1 John 3:5 KJB - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.1 John 3:6 KJB - Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.1 John 3:7 KJB - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.1 John 3:8 KJB - He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.1 John 3:9 KJB - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.1 John 3:10 KJB - In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.1 John 3:11 KJB - For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.1 John 3:12 KJB - Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.1 John 3:13 KJB - Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
I am surprised that this rumor is still going on that Christians do not follow Laws. It is unfortunate to see that in action but there are a lot of things brought up that try to make distinctions in order to ensure that there's a clear "Us vs. Them" when both overlap. Thanks for the threadDear posters,
There is a perpetuating rumour around at certain sub-forums that Christians are lawless. The impression being given is that Christians believe that laws of God (all of them) are done away with and that Christians believe that no one is bound to any laws of God given before the Cross.
While I am pretty convinced that Christians still believe in the use of at least the Two Great Laws and teach the Ten as having a very firm place in theology, the accusation leveled at Christians is that they are no longer believed as binding.
So what is it? Is the law done away with entirely? Are you a bunch of antinomians, drooling after your lusts in a blind haze of licentiousness? Or are you confident that you can live by the Spirit and those commandments are guidelines for those who don't yet have the Spirit? Have you another view?
Or what?
Dear posters,
There is a perpetuating rumour around at certain sub-forums that Christians are lawless. The impression being given is that Christians believe that laws of God (all of them) are done away with and that Christians believe that no one is bound to any laws of God given before the Cross.
While I am pretty convinced that Christians still believe in the use of at least the Two Great Laws and teach the Ten as having a very firm place in theology, the accusation leveled at Christians is that they are no longer believed as binding.
So what is it? Is the law done away with entirely? Are you a bunch of antinomians, drooling after your lusts in a blind haze of licentiousness? Or are you confident that you can live by the Spirit and those commandments are guidelines for those who don't yet have the Spirit? Have you another view?
Or what?
23. The new covenant can be looked at as a will. It can be filled with the same basic things with the same basic meaning, for sin is always wrong. The sabbath was not a moral law as such as do not kill, etc. This doesn't mean we don't observe the sabbath but it is not mandatory on one certain day for everyday is a sabbath and the Lord is the Lord of the sabbath and said through Paul they were not to be judged for things of that nature. He talks about being subject to ordinances as though living in the world or rules in Colossians 2:20. In verse 21: (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Verse 22; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? This same word ordinances many carry the same ordinances in Colossians 2:14-15. If this is true then this would prove the whole law was nailed to the cross because ordinance means rules.
In reality I have never met a Christian that didn't live by laws. But some TALK like they do, and that's where they get the bad rap.Dear posters,
There is a perpetuating rumour around at certain sub-forums that Christians are lawless. The impression being given is that Christians believe that laws of God (all of them) are done away with and that Christians believe that no one is bound to any laws of God given before the Cross.
While I am pretty convinced that Christians still believe in the use of at least the Two Great Laws and teach the Ten as having a very firm place in theology, the accusation leveled at Christians is that they are no longer believed as binding.
So what is it? Is the law done away with entirely? Are you a bunch of antinomians, drooling after your lusts in a blind haze of licentiousness? Or are you confident that you can live by the Spirit and those commandments are guidelines for those who don't yet have the Spirit? Have you another view?
Or what?
Exegesis means that we look at the author and their readers to help understand what they meant. Jer 31:31-33 is the New Covenant "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" - what "Law" did Jeremiah and his readers know about - law that defined what sin is?
Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart"
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
And Paul says the unit of TEN remains valid for NT saints.
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - "First" in what unit of LAW? Only the TEN Commandments.
The Ten Commandments are part of that moral law that defines what sin is as we see in Romans 7 and James 2.
Texts like " for everyday is a sabbath" don't exist in the actual Bible
Col 2 is not about deleting scripture - it is about deleting the "commandments of men".
Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch! 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)
scripture is not - "the commandments and teachings of men"
Commandments of men - rejected EVEN when the stuff they are making up has to do with a Bible topic as is the case in Mark 2:20-28 where they add their own "stuff" to the Sabbath commandment.
"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.
The first 4 commandments are included in the moral code that deals with Deut 6:5 - Love for God.
The last 6 commandments are included in the moral code that deals with Lev 19:18 - love for your neighbor.
For all eternity
"from new moon to new moon AND from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
The LAW is not nailed to the cross in Col 2 -- our "certificate of debt" is nailed to the cross instead. Thus upholding the LAW.
"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW" Rom 3:31
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
1. The Sabbath commandment is part of the TEN - true. Everyone on both sides of the discussion admits to it.2. You have missed the whole point about the context of the ethic and the mechanics of the covenant itself.
The jews did know the written law and I noted this and I also stated they didn't believe the law was abolished because their whole life was wrapped up in it culturally as well as through the types and the shadows. By the law was knowledge of sin and Romans points this out that this was the purpose. This shows the laws purpose for the time being and agrees with the law was until the seed (Messiah) shall come. I never said the law within itself was abolished because I said sin was always sin. Killing was wrong in Cain's day but there was no written judgement of stoning the person to death like in the law of Moses. There was an eye for eye and a tooth for tooth but not a mandatory judgement.
3. People in the antediluvian period were dealt with by their conscience and we still have a conscience but it is not what we understand about sin or how we respond to different things alone in the same context. We have greater revelation today than just conscience just like the law keepers in Moses day.
4. Every law of the 10 commandments is still valid as a moral law within itself today as much as before the law of Moses. Killing is still wrong, Adultery is still wrong, etc., etc. The Sabbath was a part of the 10 but was not actually moral but I never said we don't observe it
for we are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves.
The ethic in the old covenant was that you sinned if you didn't observe it and reaped a judgement. Today we reap no mandatory judgement for not observing The Sabbath
and there was more than one Sabbath.
5. You ask about what unit of law
6. Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; and Ephesians 6:2 are valid in the context of the old covenant as far as within itself of loving God, your neighbor as yourself, and honor your father and mother but it is not the same as the context of the new testament connected to the overall ethic...
6. Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; and Ephesians 6:2 are valid in the context of the old covenant as far as within itself of loving God, your neighbor as yourself, and honor your father and mother but it is not the same as the context of the new testament connected to the overall ethic and written judgement if you fail to do these things. If a child sassed his parents he could be stoned literally but this is not a mandatory judgement today. You would have to agree even though I am sure you think that it is mere semantics, even though it is not.
7. Romans 7 and James 2 I agree with the moral aspect in itself. However, the law in Romans 7 which was the old covenant and was holy and good was taken advantage of by the law of sin and death and made them live to the frailty of man and sin. In Romans 8:2 the law of sin and death was done away with by the law of the Spirit and cannot take advantage of the commandment "Thou shalt not" because of the finished work of Christ.
12. There is no certificate of debt stated in that scripture. In one respect, Christ didn't pay a debt and was not a substitute. What I mean by this is that Christ gave his life freely and if he paid the debt then everyone would be saved. This is the mentality of the penal substitutionary theory held by many christians.
At the same time Christ was a ransom and satisfied the penalty for sin. Paying the price was not like in a cash transaction as some would believe. The price was suffering on the cross.
13. Romans 3:31; the context is the law of Moses
11. Isaiah 66:23 is talking about the earthly kingdom when it becomes in perfect harmony with the whole physical Kingdom of God universal. All the nations will be commanded to worship God and come to Jerusalem.
They will also se the carcases of the men that have transgressed against the Lord for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Jesus was trying to explain that there are circumstances when obeying the law is wrong.
Hi Jerry -
1. The Sabbath commandment is part of the TEN - true. Everyone on both sides of the discussion admits to it.
2. Not a moral issue to rebell against God's Word in that commandment?? really?? that would be - false.. See James 2. Binding obligation based on "He who said..." even in that unit of Ten.
3. You claim we "observe it" -- we what does God actually say in His Commandment?
A. "Worship any one day in 7 that you like"??? No.
B. "THE Seventh day - IS the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God" ?? -- yes.
The 4th commandment does not say "assemble on any day you like as often as you want... just so long as you assemble" -- as we all know.
Except for that way that Jesus condemns doing such a thing in Matt 5.
Matt 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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And Christ again condemns it in Mark 7
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Obligation base on "He who said" -- in James 2 -- does not allow for editing/downsizing/tweaking
James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by THE Law as transgressors.
10 For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of THE Law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
The Law - in Romans 2 - includes the Ten Commandments.
Rom 2
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
Not in Eden. Not in Gen 2:1-3, Not in Ex 20:8-11. The annual Sabbaths of Lev 23 were not made in the Ex 20:11 creation week event.
Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:
In what "unit of LAW" do we have condition that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise"
hint: it is not the 5 books of Moses - there are many promises in Genesis before Ex 20:12
Yes - what unit is Paul referencing - that has the 5th commandment as "the first commandment with promise" - most people who oppose God's Ten Commandments will not offer the simple answer to that simple question.
Simple question - what unit is Paul referencing - that has the 5th commandment as "the first commandment with promise" ??
This is a detail that Paul brings up in Eph 6:2 for his readers. What is he referencing? What do they think is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"??
Here is a hint for the reader.
Acts 17:11 "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things (spoken to them by Paul) were SO"
I look forward to your response.
in Christ,
Bob
It's not a matter of saying that there are circumstances when obeying the law is wrong, but that the law was never intended to prevent a certain action. For instance, when the command to circumcise infants on the 8th day happens to fall on the Sabbath, it was ruled that the Sabbath was never intended to prevent their circumcision. Likewise the Sabbath was never intended to be used as a reason not to do good. So Jesus never advocated lawlessly violating the Sabbath, but rather he taught how to correctly keep the Sabbath, which sometimes violated man's rules for how keep the Sabbath.
The Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.
Translation, the traffic policeman can override a red light. Why? Because he has discretionary powers. When we are in Christ, we have discretionary powers, able to make exceptions, because we know the Law was made to serve Man, not the other way 'round.