God using your pain to help others

[Chicken Little]

I know of pain all too well. My life I guess you could say was gruesome. as a child I was severely abused I was starved I was drugged I was made a slave and I'm not kidding I was a servant in the house and I received brain damage from all that and at the age of eight I was the size of a five year old due to being so underfed. then when I was taken away to a good home I got cancer and the radiation and the chemo treatments damaged my body and I received even more brain damage. even though I was finally cured at age sixteen the damage was beyond repair I had gained several medical issues my body remained as a child and I couldn't do things normal ppl could.

even now I am 24 and my body and mind are still in the state of child if I didn't have my I.d. I would not be allowed in rated r movies and I have been mistaken for a child by a known pedifile lol However I never once questioned God why I had to go through all that. Because I know pain because I know how harsh and unfair life can be I am able to truly understand others who know pain and sadness I can connect to others who know the same hurts and I have deep compassion on the hurting and wounded souls. I don't know if it was satans hand that caused all my pain and unfairness in life but I know that God used it for good

yes God is soooooo good at getting every bit of LIFE out of every situation life gives us .
in our Brokenness and in our desire for healing , I think we have to trust him more.
and when Paul asks God to heal him from his eye issues .
God told Paul "MY grace is sufficient" maybe because we all need a little bit of that kind of pain that allows us to remember we are human and frail and we do need him .... maybe so that we rise above our humanity and run to him for our true life and existence. Maybe that is that reborn of his Spirit he promises , I suspect .
we must trust him and nothing else to our core because of what is to come.
just know he is not being mean but is working out your salvation for your good as efficiently and quickly as possible.
you will all have eternity to be whole, have babies do great things.
but just this tiny life time at the end of the day .. to learn to trust him the way we will all have to trust him to overcome ourselves , and our trust in ourselves. that is our battle .

 

[Farm Truck]

If any confessing Christian leads a lifestyle of continually practicing sin... they need to be truly born-again.

And this hold true for TV preachers who are starting to agree with homosexuality as being OK as they are leading people astray and are very poor excuses of ministers and are in fact false teachers. The truth will come out.

I'm not a Bible scholor by far

You should become one... that's the problem with many Christians today, they take the words and views of their favorite TV preachers as being truth and that is idolatry! The truth will come out.

It's going to be sad to see TV preachers give in to the gay agenda... because they know if they do not then their offerings and product sales will go way down and they'll most likely no longer be able to afford to stay on TV being relegated to streaming their programs on their websites.

Apparently to some, being high profile is more important that teaching truth, but THE truth will come out

 

[now faith]

And this hold true for TV preachers who are starting to agree with homosexuality as being OK as they are leading people astray and are very poor excuses of ministers and are in fact false teachers. The truth will come out.



You should become one... that's the problem with many Christians today, they take the words and views of their favorite TV preachers as being truth and that is idolatry! The truth will come out.

It's going to be sad to see TV preachers give in to the gay agenda... because they know if they do not then their offerings and product sales will go way down and they'll most likely no longer be able to afford to stay on TV being relegated to streaming their programs on their websites.

Apparently to some, being high profile is more important that teaching truth, but THE truth will come out

It is life in a bubble if you believe there are no TV Preachers that preach the truth of God.

To some people the bigger their neighbors Church is, the bigger the criticism gets as to why they have more people.

I think it stems from good ol Christian envy,because your sheep are hungry for the Word.

If Churches fed their sheep instead of shearing them, their sheep may stay in the flock.

Toss your TV out the window if you don't like what's on ,because if a Preacher is idolatrous how bad is you favorite TV show?

Ever watch American Idol?

No need answer only God needs to know.

 

[now faith]

And this hold true for TV preachers who are starting to agree with homosexuality as being OK as they are leading people astray and are very poor excuses of ministers and are in fact false teachers. The truth will come out.



You should become one... that's the problem with many Christians today, they take the words and views of their favorite TV preachers as being truth and that is idolatry! The truth will come out.

It's going to be sad to see TV preachers give in to the gay agenda... because they know if they do not then their offerings and product sales will go way down and they'll most likely no longer be able to afford to stay on TV being relegated to streaming their programs on their websites.

Apparently to some, being high profile is more important that teaching truth, but THE truth will come out

It is not a gay agenda, it's a sin agenda.
As long as you keep driving out the people rather than teaching salvation you have lost sight of the main agenda Jesus Christ.

 

[Farm Truck]

So, you advocate practicing gays to come in to the church... those that think it's not a sin and it's OK... you gonna let them defile a church body?

I have no problem if someone wants to be set free... I can work with that.

But, the ones who think they are so called "gay christians" who practice homosexuality while refusing to repent... those folks need to be put out of the church. I will leave any church that allows that situation because they have become false teachers... they may as well get drunk, same difference!

There's already 3 major TV ministers who are saying "homosexuality is an ongoing discussion" as they ride the fence on this issue ignoring what God's Word says like good hypocrites - I know, I know... don't mention any names.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

So, you advocate practicing gays to come in to the church... those that think it's not a sin and it's OK... you gonna let them defile a church body?

I have no problem if someone wants to be set free... I can work with that.

But, the ones who think they are so called "gay christians" who practice homosexuality while refusing to repent... those folks need to be put out of the church. I will leave any church that allows that situation because they have become false teachers... they may as well get drunk, same difference!

Coming late to this party....I agree with this. I'll go back and see what started it all, but...

3 For even though I am absent physically, I am present in spirit. And I have already judged the one who did this, just as though I were present. 4 When you gather together in the name of our Lord Jesus, and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 turn this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast affects the whole batch of dough? 7 Clean out the old yeast so that you may be a new batch of dough - you are, in fact, without yeast. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 So then, let us celebrate the festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of vice and evil, but with the bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
1 Cor 5:3-8 (NET)​

Paul was talking here about a man who had sex with his mother. Forbidden in scripture, just as homosexuality is forbidden. Unrepentant sin will corrupt that which is holy. And Paul, indeed God through Paul, left no room for this defilement to enter in.

So, a homosexual (or fornicators or idolaters or ...) who do not yet know that their actions are wrong, have not yet been taught that they live in sin, can be allowed in for the purpose of instructing them in righteousness. But once they understand that they are practicing sin (1 John 3) and they continue in it, then they identify themselves as children of the devil and not prodigal children.

There's already 3 major TV ministers who are saying "homosexuality is an ongoing discussion" as they ride the fence on this issue ignoring what God's Word says like good hypocrites - I know, I know... don't mention any names.

This thought has come up in other forums. Who are the 3? I will tell you one whose name has come up elsewhere and who has clarified his position as being strongly against gay marriage and homosexuality is T. D. Jakes. Who are the 3 you speak of? Without this openly discussed you may leave some following them blindly, not knowing of statements/teachings you have heard.

 

[now faith]

Why does everyone jump to conclusions about homosexuality?

It is sin,same as any other with the exception that it is not considered sin but birthright by those who are.

Murder is sin,yet it is not a lifestyle choice.

I believe that homosexuality is predispositioned by a parent from childhood sometimes,this is the root of I was born that way clause.
The proper phrase would be I was conditioned to be this way.

Nevertheless the Holy Spirit will convict and the choice by the individual will be made,my hope for all is to choose life.

Some may relate to this some not:
Years ago I had a friend who's son was a homosexual.

The young man was in his early 20s, he was a well mannered hard working man that you would not presume gay.

His Dad reluctantly accepted his lifestyle choices for the sake of keeping his Son.

The young man within a month died of aids.

It was a time of great sorrow for his Dad and myself somewhat stunned at the sudden death of the young man.

Today I am a different Christian than I was then,back then in a different denomination we looked at sin with the perspective God will punish you reap what you sow.

Today I look at my inward man and ask,why would I not have given this young man witness of Christ?

I never did tell him about Jesus, my hope is that someone else did.

My point is don't miss a chance to witness for Christ,be kind have God's love shine through you so the sinner will at least have one last chance.

 

[now faith]

So, you advocate practicing gays to come in to the church... those that think it's not a sin and it's OK... you gonna let them defile a church body?

I have no problem if someone wants to be set free... I can work with that.

But, the ones who think they are so called "gay christians" who practice homosexuality while refusing to repent... those folks need to be put out of the church. I will leave any church that allows that situation because they have become false teachers... they may as well get drunk, same difference!

There's already 3 major TV ministers who are saying "homosexuality is an ongoing discussion" as they ride the fence on this issue ignoring what God's Word says like good hypocrites - I know, I know... don't mention any names.

 

[hhodgson]

And this hold true for TV preachers who are starting to agree with homosexuality as being OK as they are leading people astray and are very poor excuses of ministers and are in fact false teachers. The truth will come out.

According to what Bob posted (ABlessedMan), that (truth) may have already came out about T.D. Jakes. We'll wait and see how Brian Houston at Hillsong Church deals with it. And for those who don't know. Brian Houston pastors the Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia. Some years ago I was in Sydney, Australia and if his ministry was there at the time, It would have been nice to go check it out.

Let's not (pre-judge) and give up on them FT, or any other ministry that may need to proclaim what to say behind their pulpits concerning this very powerful, and highly influential end-time deception movement of the "Gay Revolution" that's (already) accepted in every facet of leadership in our country, including the executive, legislative, judicial, and even the military branches of our goverment. They are everywhere from the top down in our society and God forbid... yes, even in our churches. Satan would love to see our nation as the (gay capital country) of the world. Hmmm... Just remembered. (Sodom and Gomorrah?) Remember this...

We'll have to keep our discerning spiritual eyes open to this "Gay Revolution" (LGBT), that I believe (may) be the "leading deception" of "hypocrisy" of the coming end-time last days that would lead millions to the "great falling away" before Jesus returns.

Does the Lord have something in (His plan) to counter this "abounding" SIN..? (hint)

While this ungodly Gay Revolution abomination is running wild, there is a returning godly movement re-gaining momentum as well, that some call... The Grace Revolution that initially began... after the Ressurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (from the dead) who offered Himself as the sin sacrifice for the whole world. I use the word "re-gaining" because over the years God's GRACE has been so diluted, polluted and watered down by mixing with law (our efforts) that had little to no affect. We can thank God that He raised up saints such as Joseph Prince and others to re-teach the whole counsel of God as the full Good News message of the Gospel. "The just shall live by faith" (and) "Without faith, it is impossible to please God." Hebrews 10:38a, Hebrews 11:6a. The Lord said that if we draw back (from faith) that He shall have no pleasure in us.

The writer of Hebrews says it very clearly. "but if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him." Hebrews 10:38b. Hebrews 4:2 "For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

The critics call this full GRACE teaching (you've heard them all)... hyper-grace, extreme grace, exaggerated grace, cheap grace, greasy grace, modern grace, false grace, tickle grace, licentious grace, etc. It just amazes me that some are teaching or (suggesting) that... the end-time "great falling away" will be caused by none other than this modern day "Grace Revolution" ... when actually, it's teaching the whole counsel of God.

The critics of the (modern grace message) are quick to quote these (below) scriptures describing this false message (as they say)... as the end-time apostasy.

2 Peter 2:1-3 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality (sexual immorality?), and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their "judgment" from (long ago) is not idle, and their "destruction" is not asleep. (Could this bold part be describing the judgment and distruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?)

Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, (turning the grace) of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."​

Notice the bold parts? So I think maybe a question that we should ask ourself and the critics is... "how..? and where..?" is the modern grace gospel (denying) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ?? Even Dr. Brown admits that they are God loving saints without a doubt. (Dr. Michael Brown wrote the popular book... Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message)

Dr. Michael Brown..."Some people gravitate to the hyer-grace message because they have sensitive consciences or because they have been burned by legalism or they feel as if they always fall short or they were not raised by a loving and affirming father. They really do love the Lord and they are not looking for and excuse to sin, and finally, hearing this message, they have found a place of rest and acceptance in the Lord, and they are actually working harder for Him than ever."​

Are there any abusers of this modern full GRACE message? Absolutely! No different than any other doctrine or movement. Name just one doctrine that don't have something that someone else would consider heretical? If time permits, along with interest, we'll deal with some of the abuses, the misunderstandings, and misrepresentations of some that are calling this a "distorted and dangerous" message that could lead millions to hell. Dr. Michael Brown said something similar in his book.

Let's compare the Gay Revolution and the Grace Revolution. How did Jesus say we would know them? Matthew 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.… Galatians 5:22-23

If we were to examine the fruit of these grace teachers. What would we find? Listed below are some of the major proponents of the modern grace gospel message for those reading this may be familiar with some of them...

I could list many, many more teachers of the Grace Revolution, some known, some well known such as Joseph Prince, Clark Whitten, Steve McVey, Paul Ellis (Escape to Reality), Andrew Farley, Rob an Ryan Rufus, John Chowder, John Sheasby, Simon Yap, Andrew Wommack, Watchman Nee, Dudly Hall, Judah Smith, also (our own) Benjamin Conway (King Zzub). Has anyone listened to Creflo Dollar lately?​

So which is it (that is more in line) to cause millions to fall away from the end-time deception? The Gay Revolution or the Grace Revolution? Also consider this... (This is big!) Let's not forget the video I brought up earlier about the New Message and the New GOD. This group is really growing and has much of Holywood's elite. If the Body of Christ really speaks out about the "Gay Revolution" even in our mega-churches and they do get rooted out. "Where will they go?" The New Message of the New God movement will have open arms for them. This group along with other new age theologies will be a part of the end-time deception coupled with the Gay Revolution.

Back to my question above... What (could) be the Lord's plan to counter this "Gay Revolution" hypocrisy? "When sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20).

The current "status quo" isn't working too well Farm Truck. I believe Romans 5:20 is one major end-time scripture message the Lord wants us to embrace for the times just ahead of us. And, I believe this full grace message of the gospel is awakening the Body of Christ in preparation for the end-time harvest of souls.

​

 

[now faith]

Remove

 

[Farm Truck]

So, a homosexual (or fornicators or idolaters or ...) who do not yet know that their actions are wrong, have not yet been taught that they live in sin, can be allowed in for the purpose of instructing them in righteousness. But once they understand that they are practicing sin (1 John 3) and they continue in it, then they identify themselves as children of the devil and not prodigal children.

That's false teaching. True shepherds would not allow wolves in to try and teach them to not be wolves because the end result shall be sheep being hurt. This is a very basic concept that even a baby Christian should understand. I'm referring to those that think being gay is OK and they have no plans to repent because they see nothing wrong with it - they should be put out of the church.

Besides, there plenty of false gay churches they can attend, so the pastor needs to give them the left foot of fellowship!

Those that say they think it is in fact wrong and say they want help in overcoming need to be watched closely as many of them are lying and will need to be put out. God says mankind is responsible for their actions while in their body, so true shepherds put their sheep first.

Problem is... there's not too many true shepherds, and what you are describing will happen and a growing number of sheep will be introduced to this gay stuff and will fall for it, losing their salvation in the process. God clearly states that those who practice the sins of the flesh shall not inherit the Kingdom of God, meaning they will not be attending the marriage supper of the Lamb. It's not a nice subject, but it is scripture so it must be taught.

I believe this full grace message of the gospel is awakening the Body of Christ in preparation for the end-time harvest of souls.

That's already happening outside of the US and has been happening for several years now... we won't see too much of it in the US since people here have a lot of options and really don't need Jesus, or so the media and political correctness tells them which is what is choking the Word out of these people.

Think about the parable where the important people would not come to the feast so the Lord invited those that were shunned by society. That's how this is going to work out.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

That's false teaching. True shepherds would not allow wolves in to try and teach them to not be wolves because the end result shall be sheep being hurt. This is a very basic concept that even a baby Christian should understand. I'm referring to those that think being gay is OK and they have no plans to repent because they see nothing wrong with it - they should be put out of the church.

Besides, there plenty of false gay churches they can attend, so the pastor needs to give them the left foot of fellowship!

This attitude of yours is what is wrong with many churches in this country.

11 When the Pharisees saw this they said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
12 When Jesus heard this he said, "Those who are healthy don't need a physician, but those who are sick do. 13 Go and learn what this saying means: ' I want mercy and not sacrifice .' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matt 9:11-13 (NET)​

Stop the sinners at the door!! Kick them out before they ever come in. The altar calls will be empty, but, hey!, we will have a faultless and flawless church.

Except that Jesus said that we are to preach to the sinner.

Your attempted rebuke of my teaching is Pharisitical. It is exactly what they accused Jesus of doing.

Once we know that the sinner will not give up practicing his sin, then we know that he or she is not part of our assembly. But until that point -- until the point of wiping dust from our feet because they simply would not receive the Word -- until that point we are to sit and eat with them (listening to the Word for chastisement, correction and edification) and teach them right from wrong.

 

[hhodgson]

Remove

Hey John, Does your "remove" mean for me to "go away" or "remove my message" or, did you quote something that you shouldn't have said... and (removed), or... said something that you (removed) and should have said? Wow! That's a weird question! I'm allowed to pick on ya, right? Just curious... (It's time to stir the pot a little on some of these subjects).

​

 

[hhodgson]

That's already happening outside of the US and has been happening for several years now... we won't see too much of it in the US since people here have a lot of options and really don't need Jesus, or so the media and political correctness tells them which is what is choking the Word out of these people.

Think about the parable where the important people would not come to the feast so the Lord invited those that were shunned by society. That's how this is going to work out.

Gheesh Farm Truck... Is this all you got? It took me much seeking God to write my long post... of your concerns of the modern grace message that is being preached more "abundantly" today by many God loving modern grace teachers. I gave you a list of just some of the "big boys" and there was from you. Little disappointed. You mentioned nothing about about what Dr. Brown said that the grace teachers no doubt are Jesus loving "brothers" in the Lord. I believe we can safely say that these teachers are indeed bearing Good Fruit of the Spirit. Dr. Brown admits that, can you?

Did you know that one of these modern grace teachers is "one of our own" here on Word of Faith forum? He's Benjamin Conway, pastor of Tree of Life Church in England also know as (King Zzub) on our forum. He is very busy but he was here posting (for awhile) some months back. BTW, Pastor Conway and victoryword (Troy Edwards) have been close friends for years. I don't believe that victoryword shares the same grace message as King Zzub does but nevertheless they are good friends.

I'm guessing you noticed in my long post (if even read it)I mentioned Andrew Wommack on the list of grace teachers. He has been on national Christian programming of TBN, INSP, Daystar, TCT and others for years. Iv'e known Wommack since 1981 (guessing)... when he was in our area (Lima, Ohio) ministering. This may have been his first time at doing this. Wommack's message of grace got me started long before I heard of Joseph Prince. Wommack, also has a great grace book "Grace: The Power of the Gospel."

The one I follow the most is Dr. Paul Ellis who has a HUGE web teaching site called Escape to Reality. Google it and check it out. I also have several of Ellis's books. One of his books (Hyper-Grace Gospel), Dr. Ellis refuted (and quite well) Dr. Brown's book, "Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Hyper-Grace Message." Do a little research and you may find that his (Dr. Ellis and others) message on grace may not be as "distorted and dangerous" as been mentioned by Dr. Brown.

You didn't like my picture of the rainbow White House? Or, about Sodom and Gommorah? I thought you would at least agree with me on that.

on T. D. Jakes or Brian Houston of Hillsong Church? I have to repeat this again FT. Let's be extra careful about pre-judging these or any other ministry that struggles with this. Pre-judging could lead to unreliable credibility in these matters. I think we can agree that we need to keep an eye on all ministries from here on out. Must remember though... were being watched also!

Another comment I must make from several of your posts. You have quoted several times in different posts that "these modern grace teachers are just making money off of their books." I can find those quotes you made... if you want! Otherwise, I won't bother looking. The reason I bring this up is that you (appear) to be a "follower" (if you will), whether you know it or not... of Dr. Michael Brown. You both use similar words and phrases in you writings. I perceived this by reading many of your posts and many of Dr. Brown's articles in his web site. He has a ton of articles in his "Ask Dr. Brown" site which I have read many and enjoyed. They are very informative. But... what's very noticeable is Dr. Brown doesn't come across in his writings with a condenscending attitude. You portray that quite often in your posts. I am not alone, others have also noticed that also. All were asking is to please refrain yourself.

I do the same thing with Andrew Wommack, at times in mimicking his phrases and words, etc. But... to Dr. Brown, I would never say that he himself is writing his books "just to make money off of them." (as you did with the modern grace teachers). Dr. Brown has written to my knowledge 25 books, not to make money... but to share his beliefs and concerns. I may just purchase a few myself. Can you restate what you said about the grace teachers?

My comment is that if you take time and research their web pages, you would see that these teachers are very sincere in preaching the full grace gospel. Dr. Brown acknowledged that, can you Farm Truck?

​

 

[now faith]

Hey John, Does your "remove" mean for me to "go away" or "remove my message" or, did you quote something that you shouldn't have said... and (removed), or... said something that you (removed) and should have said? Wow! That's a weird question! I'm allowed to pick on ya, right? Just curious...View attachment 162117 (It's time to stir the pot a little on some of these subjects).

View attachment 162118​

Everything is fine you can pick on me all you want,after all you know how gental I am when critized.
I just thought it wasn't right that's all.

 

[Farm Truck]

This attitude of yours is what is wrong with many churches in this country

Who said anything about not reaching out to sinners? I'm talking about preachers being soft on sin and leaving the implication that "once saved, always saved" which many impressionable Christians translates as "kool, I can keep smoking crack while loving Jesus", er whatever works of the flesh they are in to that they don't want to give up so they seek preachers to convince them they are OK.

Do I need to show you in God's Word where the Lord lists things that if one continues to do them the Lord plainly says they will not inherit the Kingdom of God??? We do need to honor the whole counsel of God, not just the ear tickling parts.

I don't believe that victoryword shares the same grace message as King Zzub does but nevertheless they are good friends.

Actually, Troy Edwards is no where near an extreme grace teacher... I've read some of his stuff and he is not in agreement with Prince, Osteen, et al

None of this really matters though... you think the world is just full of close to perfect teaching in spite of God's warnings concerning the false teaching that would come in the end times... not to mention a lack of knowledge of James 4:4 and Revelation 3:5 among other warnings of correction the Lord put in His Word that none of the so-called grace teachers would dare talk about for fear that it doesn't fit in with "their" doctrine.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Who said anything about not reaching out to sinners? I'm talking about preachers being soft on sin and leaving the implication that "once saved, always saved" which many impressionable Christians translates as "kool, I can keep smoking crack while loving Jesus", er whatever works of the flesh they are in to that they don't want to give up so they seek preachers to convince them they are OK.

If someone thinks that "love your neighbor" is all they need to be saved, do we correct their viewpoint or do we condemn "love your neighbor?" It takes a misunderstanding to get OSAS wrong.

Leaving behind these types of misunderstandings, "lost salvation" and OSAS actually result to the same conclusion, it's just that we would say he was never saved and you would say he lost it -- either way he's lost.

if does not understand a teaching and condemns it does not make that teaching wrong and unbiblical.

Do I need to show you in God's Word where the Lord lists things that if one continues to do them the Lord plainly says they will not inherit the Kingdom of God??? We do need to honor the whole counsel of God, not just the ear tickling parts.

Let's do it like Noah: two by two. I'll gander that the verses you bring up fit OSAS better than the verses I'll bring up fit a lost salvation model.

 

[Farm Truck]

If OSAS is true, then man was not actually created in God's image which is why seedtime and harvest applies to us just like it applies to God Who decided His entire Kingdom will work on this concept and said He cannot be mocked, whatsoever we so is what we reap... if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

Which is why God put Jesus in His High Priestly ministry because He knew we would still willingly sin even after we are born again (Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, 1 Corinthians 11:31, Hebrews 10:26)... which I understand the extreme grace people teach is wrong to go to God and confess our sins, which lets me know where that teaching came from because these folks are teaching that the Bible didn't really mean what it says. satan never changes, he's still trying to say that God did not mean what He said, ain't that something?

Not saying it is a pretty subject, but Jesus did say not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter in to the Kingdom, and even those who prophesied in His name, cast out devils, and in His name done many wonderful works (obviously charismatic folks here) will not enter into His Kingdom (Matthew 7:21-23 - maybe Jesus mispoke?)... and notice Jesus did not say those works were not done with and by the power of God.

Sure God's plan is for us to get saved and to never look back but based on what Jesus taught in Mark 4:14-20 it is entirely possible to allow things to enter in and choke the Word so we do not bare fruit. Then, in John 15 Jesus said those in Me who bare no fruit, the Father takes away - apparently if a person refuses to walk with the Lord and allow the Lord to be both Savior and Lord... they are not bearing fruit which means they have other things in their life they view as more important than the Lord which is idolatry.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It's quite evident by the friendliness with the world that many Christians exhibit today, that many of these folks are not walking in holiness which is being set apart unto the Lord and without that, nobody will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14), not to mention all the warnings in the New Testament about walking in the flesh results in separation from God (death) which Romans 8 is a good source for.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Funny the extreme grace teachers never want to talk about verse 13...

Today's modern teaching presents the Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ as a one way street, but it's not... it's a two way street and our primary purpose for existing is to allow the Lord to live in us (2 Corinthians 6:16), and if we do not have His Spirit actually being allowed to live in us we are not His (Romans 8:9).

I know, I know... none of these scriptures mean what they actually say and you'll want to explain them away like some of the TV preacher guys who claim some parts of the Bible are not for Christians since they apparently never read 2 Timothy 3:16,17

I'm not going to change you, and you're not going to talk me in to throwing God's Word down and join the modern lukewarm church, so good "luck" with all that as they say

 

[katerinah1947]

I read a devotion about how God can use the pains in your life. Can anyone share how God has used the pains in your life to help others?

Hi,
It is now my life sometimes. Let me start, like Brinny. For a few days prior, I was feeling utterly horrid. Maybe it was useless. Maybe it was that compared to everyone, I am horrid and disgusting.
Two days later maybe, a commotion starts. I listen. I react, without thinking. That is a PTSD trait. As I approach, I see a man down. He is on his back. No one is doing anything but standing around looking at this guy on the ground. Yes, he is large. Yes he probably had a heart attack.
Horrible, disgusting, worthless me quiclky jumps on him. All time ceases. I amm pumping his chest. This was 1970 something, and the procedures have changed. Soon, I know that he needs air. I give him air. Back and forth I go, exhausting myself. In about 15 minutes the Paramedics arrive. The paramedic, slams his chest, then pumps harder than I did. I am devastated. I killed him. I wasn't good enough.
Agony gripped me. If only I did it his way, the paramedics way he would still be alive. I was at my other job. I went back to work feeling horrible.

Time passed. It was hours. The family came to tell my mother something. Yes that second job, was helping my mom and dad out, at their business.
I did not know the family came. I did not. It was horrible, until I was given the report.
"He lived for five hours. The family wanted us to know."

People sometimes fear me. Many times I want to be dead, for some of the horrors, that I have seen, or heard of. I have no emotions some of the time. I have been dead inside. A man is before me. I have been working with him for years. He is telling me now, what he had to do for our country. "And each one of those hurt, didn't it?" Recognition came. Many more months passed. One day, he is all smiles, and this man has never smiled.

*** Trigger Warning. I will be careful. You still may be triggered. Be careful!***

I am having a bad PTSD day, he is fine. "Whats up?" I asked him. "I was at a party. I listen to a guy. I knew he was me. I told him, lets go outside. I asked him what his problem was. He told me what it was. I just did what you did with me, and now he is okay also. He was a sniper like me. He was in Aphghanistan....."

A woman comes up to me one day. "My boyfriend just died last night. I want to kill myself. my whole life has been miserable." (And it was. I already knew how bad) "We were at a bar last night. His stool tipped back. He hit his head on the cement, and it killed him."

I will not tell you which technique I used. She then said to me. I am not going to kill myself, and she did not.

This can go on and on and on. Yet, each time it is the pain of my experiecing what each of those people have gone through, that allowed me to have them, not hurt as much.

I am pleased with God, exceptionally pleased with Him, that somehow He keeps me alive, with me totally opposed to the idea some of the time, as also somehow with all the wounds, each of them heals someone else, that has a similar wound.

"Your life just ended", I said to a younger blond girl in the minimum security psychiatric ward. She self admitted herself. I am in full PTSD mode, full PTSD protective mode, full PTSD healing mode. She has said something. Later, I would ask the psychiatric nurse, after I came out of this mode, if she saw what I had done, so she could do it also, later. She said no. She said it looked like a form of shock therapy. Dissapointed, I said nothing more.

The younger woman left the facility all smiles, the next day. She is the second one there I treated like that. He left the maximum security section of the Psychiatric ward, after he said something, and I gave him what I gave her. Their first look at what PTSD really is, how it's handled, and their and it's benefit to society.

For her though. "You stopped sexually maturing. You are stuck at that age. Your sexual life ended. That hapoened to me when I was a Sophmore in High School. I have been stuck sexually at that age, that ********* happened to me. You have PTSD. Mine is from********. (I always, because that is the only thing that works with other PTSD's, share the details of mine and some of my friends in what caused their PTSD and my PTSD. With all others sharing hurts them, so I have learned over the years, to not give details to thise who are not injured in this or similar ways.)". "You feel better now, or you are better now, and you don't know why."

This can go on and on. At some point, now, it will be too much for me, recalling, and I will get flashbacks. Please, if this helps you, Many are helped by pepole like me, because we are hurt, we know, and then for me, God makes all the connections, so I bump into the ones He wishes to help.

Last night. "You were so calm" she said. "'Sure I was. I have been through all this before. I panicked the first time. I gave him a glucose shot then. He took too long to come out if it. I calked the paramedics. They calmed me down when they were here and told me I did just fine. This time, he could talk to me. So, I knew how bad it was. It wasn't that bad. The last time, he could not even talk to me."' "I was a mess." she said. "' You are supposed to be. Your his wife."'
Stunned, I kept wondering why I went over there. His wife seems to know. I don't
It took another hour or so to get him stabilized. He is 80, so it takes longer. And now, telling this and feeling her words. "you were so calm" They hurt me, and I know why. My only worth, then, is them, not me. I exist for them, but feel dead. Yes I am calm and I know why. Combat bores me, as I am that dead inside when engaged. It is a job.

Okay, that is enough. Yes, I have heard that after this life is all over, I won't feel like this anymore. I hope God said that, as I don't want to be a horror forever, just so God can keep those He assigns me to, in better help or joy, UNLESS that too, is His Will, and then that also is mine.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Hi Farm Truck,

Nice post. Stay with me here, as I'll stay with you through this discussion. Remember, we are talking, discussing, not fighting (as your last sentiments seem to say). There are many places in this post where you make my argument for me so that you can knock it down. That's called a straw man. Better if you simply make your point and respond to my points instead of making my argument for me.

You are likely right that I won't convince you and you won't convince me, but we will plant seeds, and the good seeds of the Word will grow. We both love the Lord and desire His will, so the ground is fertile and good.

Let's have a good discussion (passion is ok!) and not let that slip away.

------

One other point I'd like to make is that while I believe God's Grace is wonderful, and I am OSAS, but there is a difference between a teacher of Grace and a teacher of "extreme Grace." You are correct that the extreme grace person seems to think that they have a license to sin. We know this isn't the case for Paul told us so in Romans 6. So please, don't count me in that crowd.

So, are you up for discussion?

If OSAS is true, then man was not actually created in God's image which is why seedtime and harvest applies to us just like it applies to God Who decided His entire Kingdom will work on this concept and said He cannot be mocked, whatsoever we so is what we reap... if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

Not quite sure why OSAS's truthfulness stands or falls on God's image. As far as sowing and reaping is concerned it is correct.

7 Do not be deceived. God will not be made a fool. For a person will reap what he sows, 8 because the person who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.
Gal 6:7-8 (NET)​

If we sow to the flesh we reap ... what? "Corruption from the flesh." Sickness. Disease. Galatians 6 is not speaking of salvation, but our walk, our deeds, carrying our load. This is speaking of physical matters.

Which is why God put Jesus in His High Priestly ministry because He knew we would still willingly sin even after we are born again (Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, 1 Corinthians 11:31, Hebrews 10:26)... which I understand the extreme grace people teach is wrong to go to God and confess our sins, which lets me know where that teaching came from because these folks are teaching that the Bible didn't really mean what it says. satan never changes, he's still trying to say that God did not mean what He said, ain't that something?

Yes, Jesus is the High priest. But unlike the OT priests He doesn't make atonement for our sins daily (or yearly).

11 And every priest stands day after day serving and offering the same sacrifices again and again - sacrifices that can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet . 14 For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.
Heb 10:11-14 (NET)​

The OT priests stood day after day. Jesus took away our sins with ONE sacrifice for all time. Perhaps, maybe, this was one sacrifice but we repent over and over for our sins. But that's not what verse 14 says: one offering has perfected all whom are made holy for all time.

So who are the ones being made holy? Well, we missed that by one verse above. Let's back up one to see:

By his will we have been made holy through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:10 (NET)​

We are made holy. How? Through the offering of Jesus Christ. How long does it last? For all time (v14).

You mention verse 26 in your quotes. Let's take a look.

26 For if we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins is left for us, 27 but only a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume God's enemies .
Heb 10:26-27 (NET)​

What does this say? "Deliberate, repeated sin." Understand one thing as we look at this phrase, that "receiving the knowledge of the truth" is NOT salvation -- it is simply hearing the Gospel message. Look at Matthew 13:18-23. The Word is sown AND it is heard, received. The seed on rocky ground was even "received with joy!". But it had no root. There is no salvation resulting from it. People receive the knowledge all the time and do nothing with it.

So, these people commit "deliberate, repeated sin." They practice sin. They do not desire to stop. Well, the Word tells us about such people:

7 Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Jesus is righteous. 8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was revealed: to destroy the works of the devil.
1 Jn 3:7-8 (NET)​

Practice righteousness, you are of God. Practice sin, you are of the devil.

Note, this is willful practice and not just the act therein. We all sin. It is important whether you willfully practice it or not. For the child of God, the person who is truly saved... well, let's let scripture tell us:

Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.
1 Jn 3:9 (NET)​

Catch that? If you are fathered by God -- if you are His child -- then you do not practice sin. In fact, you are "not able to sin" BECAUSE you are born of God. Here is another translation:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 3:9 (KJV)​

Whoever is born of God "cannot sin."

1 John 1:9-10 tells us where we came from. We were sinners. We lie if we do not admit that we were sinners. Notice verse 10 in chapter 1 says "if we say we HAVE NOT sinned." It does NOT say, "if we say we DO NOT sin." 1 John 1:10 is in the past. We were sinners. If we are now truly saved, born of God, His child, then we cannot sin now.

But we commit sin daily, do we not? Yes, we do. But Jesus blood already washed it away and it's effects, according to Hebrews 10:10, is to make us holy and this, according to Hebrews 10:14 is to last for all time.

Not saying it is a pretty subject, but Jesus did say not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter in to the Kingdom, and even those who prophesied in His name, cast out devils, and in His name done many wonderful works (obviously charismatic folks here) will not enter into His Kingdom (Matthew 7:21-23 - maybe Jesus mispoke?)... and notice Jesus did not say those works were not done with and by the power of God.

But nothing here speaks of losing salvation. It speaks of Mormons, JWs and the like. The phrase I bolded seems to say that you think charismatics are fakes? And since Word of Faith is certainly charismatic, this would tell me that you are not Word of Faith. In this congregational forum, only members of the forums group (Word of Faith) may teach here.

What Jesus "did not say" is preaching from silence. Its a guess to be making doctrine from what is not written. Other parts of scripture tell us that there are many false teachers who perform signs, but it is not of God.

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:24 (NET)​

Sure God's plan is for us to get saved and to never look back but based on what Jesus taught in Mark 4:14-20 it is entirely possible to allow things to enter in and choke the Word so we do not bare fruit. Then, in John 15 Jesus said those in Me who bare no fruit, the Fatherh takes away - apparently if a person refuses to walk with the Lord and allow the Lord to be both Savior and Lord... they are not bearing fruit which means they have other things in their life they view as more important than the Lord which is idolatry.

We've covered Mark 4:14+; those who hear and receive have simply heard and listened. But if there is no root, there is no salvation. John 15 is parallel to his epistles in 1 John. If you practice sin you do not remain in Him. You were never saved.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Yes, of course. Those who are not saved will face hell. Nothing here about losing salvation.


So it's getting late here...let me cut to the chase to give you something to explain in a lost salvation model:

27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father's hand. 30 The Father and I are one."
John 10:27-30 (NET)​

"No one can snatch them from my Father's hand." Jesus gave them eternal life. "They will NEVER perish."

When you are given salvation, you are changed, and NO ONE can take it away. Not even you! You will NEVER perish.

Can't lose it.

Once you are saved, you can't perish. Once you are saved you are always saved.