This generation shall not pass away...

[vinsight4u]

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[A New World]

New World, Thanks for your note. It was a bit longer than I'm used to.

You're welcome. I admit I try to fit too much information in one post. I'm trying to learn how to edit them a little better to make them shorter.

Do you really believe that on every single occasion, during Jesus' time on earth, that His use of the word " generation" always spoke to the "evil and adulterous" 1st century generation of that time?
(Not that our generation is the righteous and sexually pure one.)

Most of them.

At this point a very serious misunderstanding is being made by the disciples AND the current Preterist community. This is an excellent example of how scriptural truth is constantly unfolding. Don't be too quick to assume that "the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age" was, as you say,"the judgment on that generation" and "the end of the Old Covenant age."

Remember that in a previous chapter Jesus mentioned how the angels would separate the just from the wicked at "the end of the world".

Matthew 13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just​

The word translated 'world' in each of the above verses is correctly translated 'age' in most modern translations. Read in the proper context they support the preterist view.​

So the disciples had previously been exposed to the concept of the "end of the age" or "the end of the world". Consider also that they had just spent all day inside the Temple complex, which was by far the largest and most magnificent structure of it's day. The disciples had, earlier in the same day, heard Jesus mention in Luke 21 "not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” So as He sat on the Mount of Olives that evening the disciples asked again: "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

I believe Luke 21 is parallel with Matthew 24 and Mark 13. They were all the same discourse.

We now have the luxury of knowing that the destruction of the Temple was in 70AD, quite some time prior to the end of the world. The disciples made the assumption that "not one stone shall be left upon another", of such a glorious structure, could only occur at "the end of the world". Jesus knew the real question that they were intending to ask which was what will be the sign of His coming at the end of the world when the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just.
(One will be taken and one left.)

The disciples asked about the end of the age not the end of the world. Again, I think the misunderstanding comes from a misfortunate translation.

Jesus answered and provided a long litany list of signs that would precede His coming and the end of the world. Don't forget, that fist century generation of Old Covenant Israel from Matt.12, 16 and 23 may have demanded for a sign on numerous occasions but Jesus said no way Hosea.

I like the "no way Hosea" comment. Never heard that one before.

Again, I believe the context of Jesus' answers was the end of the Old Covenant age.

It reads to me like Jesus is telling us that the generation who witnessed 1948 would not pass away until "all" is fulfilled. Which can be a little spooky because there's not allot of wiggle room between now and that day.

Since a biblical generation was closer to forty years I think the idea that 1948 is related to Scripture is losing credibility. I remember the hysteria over the approaching years of both 1981 (the imagined beginning of the tribulation) and then 1988 (the coming of Christ and the end of the age). The revision of these dates over the succeeding years continues even though we are at sixty seven years and counting from May 1948.

Here we go again. Ok, here's an added bonus to my Matthew wisdom. James has to be talking, for the most part, to us right now because he addresses his letter to "the twelve tribes scattered among the nations". Who he can't be addressing is "the twelve tribes" of "the generation of the Old Covenant age". That's because the old twelve tribes were history at the time of James writing. He's talkin' bout the New Twelve Tribes from Revelation 7 where the 144,000 will come from:

One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

These are not genetic Israel of any generation, these are from the Commonwealth of Israel, defined as believers in our Glorious Lord Jesus. Look again at how James addresses his chapter 1 and compare it with how he addresses chapter 2:

James 1 (NIV)
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

James 2 (NIV)
Favoritism Forbidden
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism.​

Did you see it? "The twelve tribes scattered among the nations" is the equivalent to "believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ". James is not speaking specifically to the guys at the DofJ or the last days of the Old Covenant age or the original Moses style twelve tribes. He's talkin' bout brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus. This means that the 144,000 aren't going to all be genetic Jews, most will be Chinese or Indian. All will be brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus from all the nations.

I do think James was referring to a first century audience. They were of the scattered twelve tribes and they were believers. I don't know why you believe this means James couldn't have been writing to his current generation. I've never heard a distinction between "old twelve tribes" and "New Twelve Tribes."

I believe both James and Peter were addressing the believing remnant being called out from all twelve tribes of Old Covenant Israel in the last days of that age.

James called his audiences firstfruits:

James 1:18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Notice James included himself with the firstfruits.

Peter wrote to those of the Dispersion (1 Pet. 1:1) who I believe were also the twelve tribes scattered abroad.

John called the 144,000 from the twelve tribes 'firstfruits' (Rev. 14:4). Notice they were "redeemed from among men" meaning they were a remnant.

Paul mentioned the remnant being saved out of Old Covenant Israel:

Romans 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved.

Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

He also referred to himself and his audience as firstfruits:

Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

I think the evidence points to the first century generation. That was the only time there could have been firstfruits of the gospel a remnant from the twelve tribes of Old Covenant Israel.

The real and most important question is do we understand Jesus, James and all the inspired new testament. Even more importantly are we assigning the relevant scriptures to their proper audience?

I do believe the writers words were directed to the first century audiences they identified.

Matt.12,16 AND 23 is the same generation. Matthew 24 is a completely different end time generation that will be alive at the time the signs begin and also not pass away until ALL is fulfilled.

I disagree.

Look, you might be right, but I highly doubt it. I'd estimate a 99.9% chance that I'm right and the Preterist view is, unfortunately erroneous.

Many share your opinion but I'm trying to remain as close to Scripture as I can.

My big tip off was a year ago when a guy at worthy mentioned that Matt.24 and Luke 21 were different. One was in the morning in the Temple, the other's in the evening on the mount called Olivet. "As he sat on the Mount of Olives" is the true discourse.

I'm suspicious of the motive behind this idea. I've heard it but I don't think it's supported by the text.

I'm afraid that from Matt.24:7 to Matt.24:14 Jesus runs through a fast pace synopses of the 1260 days of our end time tribulation which concludes with the 7th trumpet end of salvation.

The gospel went out to all the Roman world and the end of the age did arrive.

Peaceful rest of the Sabbath

Thank you and may God bless

 

[kingdomwitness]

Jesus probably referred to the generation that would see all the signs stated by Him.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[grandvizier1006]

It's not this generation, that's for sure. People need to quit believing in young people. I'm young and I see nothing good coming from my generation. Just a bu ch of selfish idiots who want their bread and circuses

 

[vinsight4u]

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[A New World]

Jesus Christ was not speaking as to the end of age, but the end of the world
on the mount of Olives. This is why Matthew 24 begins to refer to when heaven
and earth shall pass away as to that day and hour no man knows. Jesus then gave
several parables to show how people on the earth would not know when He is to
come. The sheep and goats judgment time is after the time of the final Gog attempt
on Jerusalem. The sheep are noted as righteous and gain eternal life. The wicked are
lashed the amount of time they deserve and taken to be burned.

Matthew 24:35-36
Matthew 24:51
Matthew 25:46

Jesus answered the question: "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

So, there's no reason to think He was speaking of anything other than the end of the age in which they were living.

 

[Straightshot]

"Jesus probably referred to the generation that would see all the signs stated by Him."

Yes He is for sure

And in the first century as well

All humans regenerated, Israel and the Gentiles [the other nations] alike, from Noah after the flood are included in the scope

Judgment ................. to judgment [Matthew 24:33-39]

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Straightshot]

"So, there's no reason to think He was speaking of anything other than the end of the age in which they were living"


So what is your reasoning to tell otherwise .... got proof?

And what makes you think that the Roman incursions can be considered and ending to one of the Lord's dispensations? .... be specific

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus probably referred to the generation that would see all the signs stated by Him.

Unless He was taping it for later playback, I'd bet He was referring to the people He was talking to.

 

[Jipsah]

"So, there's no reason to think He was speaking of anything other than the end of the age in which they were living"
So what is your reasoning to tell otherwise .... got proof?

Was He facing them when He said it, or had He turned with His back to them so as to face the audience?

And what makes you think that the Roman incursions can be considered and ending to one of the Lord's dispensations? .... be specific

Sorry, I must have missed the many references to the Lord's Dispensations in Scripture. How precisely does the Bible say they're to end?

 

[Straightshot]

"Sorry, I must have missed the many references to the Lord's Dispensations in Scripture. How precisely does the Bible say they're to end?"


You have obviously missed them Jip

So why not take some time and find them for yourself .... every one is in the Bible

.... better for you to take on the task than for me to explain

Essential for understanding Bible prophecy correctly .... otherwise you never will

 

[Jipsah]

You have obviously missed them Jip

I don't feel too bad about that, though, since all the translators of the Bible appear to have missed them as well.

So why not take some time and find them for yourself .... every one is in the Bible

Is this like The Bible Codes? Such wow!

.... better for you to take on the task than for me to explain

Yeah, I can certainly see that from your standpoint. <ROFL>

Essential for understanding Bible prophecy correctly .... otherwise you never will

Which means I won't know the exact date and time of "The Rapture" like y'all do? Dang, I hate that. <Laugh>

 

[BABerean2]

Are these the same "generation"?


Mat_3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?



1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


Are those spoken to in these two verses alive during the same "generation"?

.

 

[Straightshot]

From Noah to this very day and including the populations of the earth during the time of the end of this present age

 

[parousia70]

during the time of the end of this present age

The age of the everlasting Gospel has an end?

 

[A New World]

Are these the same "generation"?


Mat_3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?



1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


Are those spoken to in these two verses alive during the same "generation"?

.

Yes. The terminal generation of Old Covenant Israel in the first century AD had become faithless, crooked and perverse (Mt. 17:17; Acts 2:40; Phil. 2:15). This was in fulfillment of Moses prophecy concerning Israel's latter days (Deut. 31:29; 32:5,20). Her judgment was imminent and would arrive at the end of the Old Covenant age in AD 70.

Peter referred to the generation of believers being called out of Old Covenant Israel during her last days. They were being raised up as the corporate body of Christ. They were receiving the promises of the age to come by faith.