No Mr. Pratt, the second amendment is not about shooting political foes.

Aldebaran

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Am I the only one who sees that as the bigger problem?

What could be bigger than the fundamental right to defend yourself?

It was last year, trying to get my New Jersey certification reciprocated in New York.

It's possible that they did more work on the instant background check for gun purchases. No reason yours should have taken a month.

That's the other bigger problem I talked about earlier.

I know. I have problems with what the police are doing too.
 
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doubtingmerle

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It is, but then the definition of "reasonable" gets changed...When something is “subject to interpretation”, eventually it gets interpreted to mean something that it clearly doesn’t.

I see, so people can't be trusted with reason, so it is better that guidelines be cast in stone with no place for arguing nuance?

I am sorry but your reasons for not using reason are not convincing to me. If it is not reasonable to use reason, why use reason to show that reason will always become unreasonable?

Yes, people can use reason wrongly. Yes, people can have illogical arguments. Yes, people can take things to extremes. But the answer to that is not rigid, black and white thinking. The answer is correct reasoning.

Nobody is trying to ban all firearms or cancel the second amendment.

The right to free speech does not make it right to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre as a joke. Neither does the right to own guns make it right to announce that one has his gun in his hands, ready to shoot at those like the current administration, as Pratt does.
 
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Aldebaran

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...with guns. Never forget the guns, eh?

If you would personally rather have a less effective means to defend yourself, then go ahead and make that choice. I won't stop you from making that choice. In return, I would ask that you would respect my right to select the best means of defending myself. I'm assuming you can respect my right to make that choice for myself since you talk so much about not infringing upon the rights of others.
 
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TLK Valentine

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If you would personally rather have a less effective means to defend yourself, then go ahead and make that choice. I won't stop you from making that choice. In return, I would ask that you would respect my right to select the best means of defending myself. I'm assuming you can respect my right to make that choice for myself since you talk so much about not infringing upon the rights of others.

unfortunately, the gun dealers around here refuse to sell any guns to people like me... they say it's against their religious beliefs.
 
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Aldebaran

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unfortunately, the gun dealers around here refuse to sell any guns to people like me... they say it's against their religious beliefs.

Your fault for telling them your religious beliefs.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Your fault for telling them your religious beliefs.

Actually, it had nothing to do with my religion. I don't know why they refused, and it didn't seem prudent to ask a lot of probing questions to religious folks with lots of guns.

They have their freedom, I have a less-effective means of defending myself.
 
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doubtingmerle

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Sure they're not.


Uh, she is talking about assault rifles. Sure, people are trying to ban assault rifles. That is not what I said.

I said, "Nobody is trying to ban all firearms or cancel the second amendment."
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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Uh, she is talking about assault rifles. Sure, people are trying to ban assault rifles. That is not what I said.

I said, "Nobody is trying to ban all firearms or cancel the second amendment."

That law certainly was effective at curbing drive by bayonettings.
 
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Aldebaran

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Actually, it had nothing to do with my religion. I don't know why they refused, and it didn't seem prudent to ask a lot of probing questions to religious folks with lots of guns.

They have their freedom, I have a less-effective means of defending myself.

The only reason would be your felony record, your dishonorable discharge, your being adjudicated mentally ill, or some other box you checked "yes" on the BATFE form.
 
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Aldebaran

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Uh, she is talking about assault rifles. Sure, people are trying to ban assault rifles. That is not what I said.

I said, "Nobody is trying to ban all firearms or cancel the second amendment."

Fine. Let's go with a more recent example then. Gerald Ensley, democrat. Here's something he said:

"I'm not talking about gun control. I'm not talking about waiting periods and background checks.
I'm talking about flat-out banning the possession of handguns and assault rifles by individual citizens. I'm talking about repealing or amending the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution."

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/op...y/2014/11/22/stop-insanity-ban-guns/19426029/
 
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TLK Valentine

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The only reason would be your felony record, your dishonorable discharge, your being adjudicated mentally ill, or some other box you checked "yes" on the BATFE form.

I have no such records; they just told me it was against their religious beliefs to sell me a firearm.
 
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doubtingmerle

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Fine. Let's go with a more recent example then. Gerald Ensley, democrat. Here's something he said:

"I'm not talking about gun control. I'm not talking about waiting periods and background checks.
I'm talking about flat-out banning the possession of handguns and assault rifles by individual citizens. I'm talking about repealing or amending the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution."


http://www.tallahassee.com/story/op...y/2014/11/22/stop-insanity-ban-guns/19426029/

OK, you found somebody who wants to ban handguns and assault rifles. He still allows hunting rifles and shotguns, so even he does not qualify as a person who want to ban all guns. And he is certainly in a minority on the issue of banning all handguns.

The point is that there is no significant effort to ban all guns. People that panic because the government is coming to take their guns are worrying about something that certainly isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Wake up folks. The government isn't coming for your guns. They are coming for your Social Security and Medicare payments. That is what you should be worrying about.
 
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Panzerkamfwagen

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OK, you found somebody who wants to ban handguns and assault rifles. He still allows hunting rifles and shotguns, so even he does not qualify as a person who want to ban all guns. And he is certainly in a minority on the issue of banning all handguns.


So, he wants to allow people to have powerful sniper rifles capable of disabling planes and police vehicles from a mile away as well as weapons capable of blowing a door off of its hinges?

The point is that there is no significant effort to ban all guns. People that panic because the government is coming to take their guns are worrying about something that certainly isn't going to happen anytime soon.

You're arguing against three quarters of a century of increasingly restrictive legislative history. It's only relatively recently that the pendulum has started to swing back the other direction.

Wake up folks. The government isn't coming for your guns. They are coming for your Social Security and Medicare payments. That is what you should be worrying about.

I have no expectation that social security will exist by the time I'm ready to retire.
 
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Aldebaran

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I have no such records; they just told me it was against their religious beliefs to sell me a firearm.

Yet you said, "Actually, it had nothing to do with my religion. I don't know why they refused, and it didn't seem prudent to ask a lot of probing questions to religious folks with lots of guns."

The only reason a gun dealer wouldn't sell you a gun is because you have one of the things I mentioned afterwards. Those are the things that the government has deemed to be barriers to the right to self defense. If you don't have any of those things on your record, then they sold you a gun, assuming you tried buying one.
 
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Aldebaran

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OK, you found somebody who wants to ban handguns and assault rifles. He still allows hunting rifles and shotguns, so even he does not qualify as a person who want to ban all guns. And he is certainly in a minority on the issue of banning all handguns.

What if he wasn't for banning sticks, stones and slingshots? Would you consider the second amendment to still be intact if he got what he wanted?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Yet you said, "Actually, it had nothing to do with my religion. I don't know why they refused, and it didn't seem prudent to ask a lot of probing questions to religious folks with lots of guns."

The only reason a gun dealer wouldn't sell you a gun is because you have one of the things I mentioned afterwards. Those are the things that the government has deemed to be barriers to the right to self defense. If you don't have any of those things on your record, then they sold you a gun, assuming you tried buying one.

False -- don't you know that a businessman can refuse service if they feel they're being forced into an action which violates their religious beliefs?
 
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Aldebaran

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False -- don't you know that a businessman can refuse service if they feel they're being forced into an action which violates their religious beliefs?

Is that what you've been arguing all this time?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Is that what you've been arguing all this time?

Not at all -- I'm telling you what happened. You seemed to think that the gun store owner was somehow compelled to sell me a gun.

Awfully nice of you to tell me what happened when I was there.
 
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