How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

[Oncedeceived]

Yawn. Bundy also blamed his killings on pornography, and just being a "cold son of a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]". I've never seen someone quote mine a serial killer before. Nice.

I imagine that was true of his motivations as well. However, it is not a mined quote. It was a letter to one of his victims. In case you weren't aware of it here it is:

“Then I learned that all moral judgments are ‘value judgments,’ that all value judgments are subjective [it just depends on how you think about them], and that none can be proved to be either ‘right’ or ‘wrong’…I discovered that to become truly free, truly unfettered, I had to become truly uninhibited. And I quickly discovered that the greatest obstacle to my freedom, the greatest block and limitation to it, consists in the insupportable “value judgment that I was bound to respect the rights of others. I asked myself, who were these ‘others?’ Other human beings with human rights? Why is it more wrong to kill a human animal than any other animal, a pig or a sheep or a steer? Is your life more to you than a hog’s life to a hog? Why should I be willing to sacrifice my pleasure more for the one than for the other? Surely, you would not, in this age of scientific enlightenment, declare that God or nature has marked some pleasures as ‘moral’ or ‘good’ and others as ‘immoral’ or ‘bad’? In any case, let me assure you, my dear young lady, that there is absolutely no comparison between the pleasure I might take in eating ham and the pleasure I anticipate in raping and murdering you. That is the honest conclusion to which my education has led me – after the most conscientious examination of my spontaneous and uninhibited self.” (Christian Research Journal, Vol 33, No 2, 2010, 32)

 

[Albion]

The question is whether creationism is growing within christianity. Also, it doesn't change the reason that some people are leaving.

It's hard to say if Creationism is growing or declining within Christianity, but it has very little to do with the membership figures. If you don't believe in Creationism there are dozens and dozens of well-known Christian denominations that accept evolution as true. The thesis of this thread, IOW, is bogus.

 

[RickG]

I knew God existed prior to becoming a Christian. God was the one who Claimed He was the Christian God.

Where in the bible did God claim to be a Christian God?

 

[Oncedeceived]

That is a post hoc rationalization. The only reason you are saying that they didn't have a relationship with God is that they left christianity.

If you knew God existed, why would you then leave the Christian faith?

How do you know that these people didn't have the same experiences you have had, yet still left christianity? You are making assumptions here.

If you know someone exists you don't then later not know they exist.

That's really a discussion for another topic anyway.

Ok.

 

[bhsmte]

It's hard to say if Creationism is growing or declining within Christianity, but it has very little to do with the membership figures. If you don't believe in Creationism there are dozens and dozens of well-known Christian denominations that accept evolution as true. The thesis of this thread, IOW, is bogus.

If you take seriously when people discuss the reasons they have left religion and or the church, the thread title is very appropriate.

 

[Albion]

Where in the bible did God claim to be a Christian God?

I think it's beyond debate that when the Bible identifies Christ as God and also records Christ claiming to be God (which he did in a number of places in Scripture) it means that he's claiming to be the "Christian" god (whatever that odd way of putting it is supposed to mean).

 

[Oncedeceived]

Review my previous post and the one I quoted in it, then apply the context.

You couldn't have just answered my post? I am annoyed by this change in the ifrst place and don't want to have to go and search for something you said previously.

 

[Albion]

If you take seriously when people discuss the reasons they have left religion and or the church, the thread title is very appropriate.

If you want to say, literally, that "dozens" of people have left Christianity for that reason, you might just as well say that "dozens" have left because they don't like to worship indoors. And you have no idea how many might have left within the past hour.

There's no logical reason for them TO leave, and we're not talking about anything even approaching a significant number of people.

.

 

[RickG]

I think it's beyond debate that when the Bible identifies Christ as God and also records Christ claiming to be God (which he did in a number of places in Scripture) it means that he's claiming to be the "Christian" god (whatever that odd way of putting it is supposed to mean).

Jesus is also identified as the son of God in many scriptures. Which is it?

 

[Albion]

Jesus is also identified as the son of God in many scriptures. Which is it?

Son of God = God.

But he's also identified as God apart from this particular title.

.

 

[bhsmte]

If you want to say, literally, that "dozens" of people have left Christianity for that reason, you might just as well say that "dozens" have left because they don't like to worship indoors. There's no logical reason for them TO leave, and we're not talking about anything even approaching a significant number of people.

.

Younger people are leaving the church in high numbers and one of the major reasons they give, is the church's rejection of science. Barna group did a study on this very topic.

 

[Papias]

It's hard to say if Creationism is growing or declining within Christianity, but it has very little to do with the membership figures. If you don't believe in Creationism there are dozens and dozens of well-known Christian denominations that accept evolution as true.

And, as has been pointed out, those are the very denominations which are dying the fastest.

However, that makes sense when one realizes that as soon as one accepts evolution, and is in one of those denominations, they are attacked relentlessly by Christians who claim they "aren't true Christians (TM)" or "must not have a real relationship with God".

From there, it becomes harder and harder every day to see Christianity as anything other than a hate club. So - big surprise - they leave.

The data showing that the evolution accepting denominations are the ones that are dying even faster than the fundamentalist denominations supports the same finding found by Barna, Libby, etc - that the most effective tool today for destroying Christ's church is creationism.

In Jesus' name-

Papias

 

[Albion]

Younger people are leaving the church in high numbers and one of the major reasons they give, is the church's rejection of science.

Do you want to discuss that? Or shall we pretend that "Creationism" is the issue?

Barna group did a study on this very topic.

It's still an unknown but certainly relatively small number. And since Christianity is NOT against science, their reasons probably are something else, regardless of what they might have told a pollster.

 

[Oncedeceived]

How can young earth creationism be a fundamental belief when it is not found in the Nicene Creed? The Creed says that God is the creator, but it never requires a literal Genesis or any of the other requirements that creationists put on the Bible.

YEC was not specified. It said Creationism not YEC.

 

[RickG]

You couldn't have just answered my post? I am annoyed by this change in the ifrst place and don't want to have to go and search for something you said previously.

dad had previously made a comment concerning the bible, and I told him that I worship God, not the bible. I have a very non-literal view of the bible as there are few if any actual contemporary writers of scripture in it.

 

[bhsmte]

Do you want to discuss that? Or shall we pretend that "Creationism" is the issue?



It's still an unknown but certainly relatively small number. And since Christianity is NOT against science, their reasons probably are something else, regardless of what they might have told a pollster.

You are then in a position, to tell someone else the reasons they give are not valid and it must be something else? Wow, you must have ESPN.

 

[Albion]

And, as has been pointed out, those are the very denominations which are dying the fastest.

However, that makes sense when one realizes that as soon as one accepts evolution, and is in one of those denominations, they are attacked relentlessly by Christians who claim they "aren't true Christians (TM)" or "must not have a real relationship with God".

From there, it becomes harder and harder every day to see Christianity as anything other than a hate club. So - big surprise - they leave.

What a fabulous, if unfounded, theory.

The data showing that the evolution accepting denominations are the ones that are dying even faster than the fundamentalist denominations supports the same finding found by Barna, Libby, etc - that the most effective tool today for destroying Christ's church is creationism.

That's completely illogical. Since the majority of Christians belong to churches that believe in Evolution, the idea that such people--even if there were very many--would feel that Christianity was on the wrong side does not even make sense.

And then there's the unfounded and false suggestion that these denominations are losing members BECAUSE of anything related to this issue here. It's well known that their decline owes to OTHER reasons.

 

[SkyWriting]

The data showing that the evolution accepting denominations are the ones that are dying even faster than the fundamentalist denominations supports the same finding found by Barna, Libby, etc - that the most effective tool today for destroying Christ's church is creationism.

Soooooo......would that support the growth of world creationism due to the Muslim community? Perhaps they are converts?

 

[RickG]

Son of God = God.

But he's also identified as God apart from this particular title.

.

Then explain, "Father, why have you forsaken me"
Then explain, "This is my Son..."
Then explain, "Jesus sits at the right hand of God"
Etc.......

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus is also identified as the son of God in many scriptures. Which is it?

Both. Jesus was complex.