Hate on Trial

[Followers4christ]

Scott Lively: Alien Tort Statute means LGBT Ugandans can sue him in America.

Anti-gay pastor Scott Lively will stand trial in federal court for crimes against humanity. He has tried for months to have the case dismissed on First Amendment grounds, but the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals in Boston has denied his last petition for dismissal. He’s going to court.

The heading of this thread should be Freedom Of Speech On Trial. Even if I don't agree with everything that he supports or believes in, he has a right to stand up for what he believes in. He never said that homosexuals should be killed according to other articles including Wikipedia. It just sounds like a lot of people on here hate freedom of speech unless it supports their views. But I do fully agree that homosexuality is sinful and is nothing to be celebrated. But soon pastors will be forced to marry and share in celebrating this disgraceful act.

Romans 1:26-28 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[TerranceL]

“They have taken over the United States, the United States government, and the European Union,” he declared. “Nobody has been able to stop them so far. I’m hoping Uganda can.” One Ugandan legislator said afterward, confirming the impact of Lively’s visit, “We must exterminate homosexuals before they exterminate society.”

Adapting Lively’s rhetoric, Ugandan parliamentarians immediately drafted the infamous Anti-Homosexuality Act—also known as the “Kill the Gays” bill because it included the death penalty for repeated “offenses” of homosexuality. Passage of this bill proved complicated (for good reason) and Uganda’s Constitutional Court ultimately struck down a revised version on a technicality. But a new bill, the Prohibition of Promotion of Unnatural Sexual Practices, stands to go before Parliament any day now.

Charming.

 

[Nithavela]

After reading a bit further, I have to retract some of my earlier statements. He didn't explicitly call for the death of gay people. He did put forth a lot of charged points, though, some of which are not supported by modern science. Calling "being gay" worse than mass murder, claiming that gay people were trying to recruit children into their ranks and destroy society as a whole. All while being introduced as western experts on homosexuality. He must have know that Uganda might react harshly, though he most likely didn't anticipate the extent of the reaction.

I don't think that he should be tried for crimes against humanity. I'm not sure if there is anything he COULD be tried for, at least in an US court, after all, he didn't even do this on US soil, and I doubt he broke a law of Uganda.

 

[MachZer0]

After reading a bit further, I have to retract some of my earlier statements. He didn't explicitly call for the death of gay people. He did put forth a lot of charged points, though, some of which are not supported by modern science. Calling "being gay" worse than mass murder, claiming that gay people were trying to recruit children into their ranks and destroy society as a whole. All while being introduced as western experts on homosexuality. He must have know that Uganda might react harshly, though he most likely didn't anticipate the extent of the reaction.

I don't think that he should be tried for crimes against humanity. I'm not sure if there is anything he COULD be tried for, at least in an US court, after all, he didn't even do this on US soil, and I doubt he broke a law of Uganda.

As I said before, the article is poorly written and I think intentionally so. The best thing I can figure is that the trial is a civil, not criminal trial. A homosexual group appears to be suing Lively for damages whereas the article wants it to appear that he is facing criminal charges

 

[MachZer0]

The heading of this thread should be Freedom Of Speech On Trial. Even if I don't agree with everything that he supports or believes in, he has a right to stand up for what he believes in. He never said that homosexuals should be killed according to other articles including Wikipedia. It just sounds like a lot of people on here hate freedom of speech unless it supports their views. But I do fully agree that homosexuality is sinful and is nothing to be celebrated. But soon pastors will be forced to marry and share in celebrating this disgraceful act.

Romans 1:26-28 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

He's being sued for what others said, not for what he said himself. He's being scapegoated

 

[JustMeSee]

The heading of this thread should be Freedom Of Speech On Trial. Even if I don't agree with everything that he supports or believes in, he has a right to stand up for what he believes in. He never said that homosexuals should be killed according to other articles including Wikipedia. It just sounds like a lot of people on here hate freedom of speech unless it supports their views. But I do fully agree that homosexuality is sinful and is nothing to be celebrated. But soon pastors will be forced to marry and share in celebrating this disgraceful act.

Romans 1:26-28 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

It was the title of the article. There was a time that its use was required.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Now the truth comes out. Lively is being charged with something that someone else said.

People can go to prison for that sort of thing. Did Charles Manson actually kill anyone? I don't recall that he personally did.

 

[MachZer0]

People can go to prison for that sort of thing. Did Charles Manson actually kill anyone? I don't recall that he personally did.

Apples to oranges

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Apples to oranges

Both are still fruits, none the less. I am not making a total 1 to 1 comparison. I am noting its similarities.

We don't know the whole story with Lively and Uganda.

 

[MachZer0]

Both are still fruits, none the less. I am not making a total 1 to 1 comparison. I am noting its similarities.

We don't know the whole story with Lively and Uganda.

Odd that someone can be sued when the whole story is not known

 

[keith99]

Odd that someone can be sued when the whole story is not known

That is what trials are for. To give both sides a chance to bring their side of the story to light.

 

[Paulos23]

Oh that guy. I remember his breef rise to fame here in the PNW. Appsolute loon was my impression when he came to Seattle to try to pass anti-gay laws. One good thing was he got the gay community here orginized to fight him and his ilk.

And he is being sued, not being tried for jail. Still, I imagine they are going to try to put him in the poor house.

 

[MachZer0]

That is what trials are for. To give both sides a chance to bring their side of the story to light.

If both sides are able to give their side of the story, then the whole story is known. The information we have is only hearsay and innuendo.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Oh that guy. I remember his breef rise to fame here in the PNW. Appsolute loon was my impression when he came to Seattle to try to pass anti-gay laws. One good thing was he got the gay community here orginized to fight him and his ilk.

And he is being sued, not being tried for jail. Still, I imagine they are going to try to put him in the poor house.

I don't think money is going to fix the possible irreversible cultural change that he caused with his preaching. I guess they have to fight back somehow, but it is probably fruitless, those kind of charismatic preachers will have millions, if not more, in donations pouring in to pay for the lawsuit and probably enough left over to let him retire, but judging by his conviction to his agenda he won't.

 

[MachZer0]

I don't think money is going to fix the possible irreversible cultural change that he caused with his preaching. I guess they have to fight back somehow, but it is probably fruitless, those kind of charismatic preachers will have millions, if not more, in donations pouring in to pay for the lawsuit and probably enough left over to let him retire, but judging by his conviction to his agenda he won't.

If cultural change in a country is actionable in court as crimes against humanity, then we have a pretty good case against every pro-homosexual group in this country

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

If cultural change in a country is actionable in court as crimes against humanity, then we have a pretty good case against every pro-homosexual group in this country

I haven't heard of any homosexuals pushing for "Kill the Whoever-is-against-homosexuality" bills, like apparently his preaching was the catalyst for. Unless you know something I don't?

 

[MachZer0]

I haven't heard of any homosexuals pushing for "Kill the Whoever-is-against-homosexuality" bills, like apparently his preaching was the catalyst for. Unless you know something I don't?

I'm not sure why you would want to hold Lively responsible for the acts and speech of others when it can't be demonstrated that he actually encouraged such

 

[Maynard Keenan]

I'm not sure why you would want to hold Lively responsible for the acts and speech of others when it can't be demonstrated that he actually encouraged such

The point of the trial will be to try to demonstrate that he did encourage it. That all potential evidence hasn't been presented publicly doesn't necessarily mean that such evidence does not exist.

 

[MachZer0]

The point of the trial will be to try to demonstrate that he did encourage it. That all potential evidence hasn't been presented publicly doesn't necessarily mean that such evidence does not exist.

+
Then people are siding against Lively when they haven't seen or heard the actual evidence. That seems odd

 

[Inkachu]

This is an example of how NOT to oppose homosexuality.