Young earth creationist questions

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PrincetonGuy

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Faith, my friend. Faith of a child....faith of a mustard seed.
Faith. The same faith that speaks to your heart and tells you Jesus died on the cross for your sins and rose again and sits at the right hand of the Father. The same faith that speaks to your heart and tells you that Jesus is preparing a place in heaven for you and that His fathers HOUSE has many MANSIONS.
Faith.

Faith has absolutely nothing to do with whether the flood occurred. It either occurred, or it did not—regardless of anyone’s faith. Faith does NOT turn an epic tale into an accurate account of an historic event. A careful study of the Hebrew text of Genesis 1-11 has incontrovertibly proven that Genesis 1-11 is a collection of severely redacted epic tales, sagas, myths, and/or legends. The evidence for this interpretation is so overwhelming that virtually every Old Testament scholar specializing in the study of Genesis and currently publishing research on Genesis in major, peer-reviewed biblical journals agrees with this interpretation. Moreover, we have billions upon billions of pieces of data from the natural sciences that prove that the flood of Genesis 6-8 did NOT occur. The only dissenters are people whose religious beliefs prevent them from believing an academically defensible interpretation of the Bible, and whose religious beliefs prevent them from believing even the very basics of the natural sciences.
 
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Saricharity

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I never listen to myself to stay out of these posts. I probably should. :)
I can't tell you what to believe and you can post hundreds of thousands of 'proofs' of studies done by men. I bet I can counter every one you post. It's a useless endless debate. I have read more about creationism and evolution the past few years then I ever thought possible. Nothing I will ever say will change your world view. I certainly don't intend to get into a debate either. I don't plan to continue posting in this thread anyways.
Probably my only last words will be this...get alone with God, His Holy word and read it for yourself. Don't look at any websites, don't look to men at all. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you read His word. Ask for discernment from Jesus. If you do that honestly from your heart and still believe Creation and the flood and Genesis 1-11 is still just an epic tale and not HIS STORY then that's between your creator and yourself. It's not a salvation issue. I just know for me and so many others, without a foundation (which Genesis is) there is no building. You take away the foundation and the building collapses.
God bless you :)
 
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mmksparbud

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It is nearly impossible to find even two public-arena advocates of the global flood story who agree on such issues as the number of animals aboard Noah’s ark, the kinds of animals aboard the ark, whether the they were infant or adult animals, where the water came from, where the water went to after the flood, how much water was needed, what and how much the animals ate, how the food was kept sufficiently fresh, how the animals got to the ark from distant continents, what the animals ate after the flood, and very many other issues. Some other issues are very seldom talked about at all, such as how the salt-water fish were able to survive in nearly fresh water. Nearly all of the public-arena advocates of the global flood story claim that Genesis 6-8 is a historical narrative that should be interpreted literally, but at the same time severely alter the story by adding to it a vast multitude of miracles that refute the very point of the narrative.

Students in high school have noted the following problems with the story:

• There are today about 2,000,000 genetically distinct populations of animals living on the earth. If we assume a date of about 2,349 B.C. for the flood (Bishop Ussher’s date), microevolution reduces the number of “kinds” of animals that must have been aboard the ark (to account for the about 2,000,000 genetically distinct populations of animals living on the earth today) to a few hundred thousand “kinds.”

• The several thousands of “kinds” of animals, including the dinosaurs, mammoths, giant ground sloths, etc., which have become extinct must also be considered. Did they all become extinct before the flood? If not, they were, according to the account in Genesis, aboard the ark.

• The ark, as literally described in Genesis, was much too small because the amount of water that it would be capable of displacing would weigh less than the animals on board, thus making it impossible for the ark to float.

• The floor space on the ark was too small to hold any more than a tiny fraction of the cages that would be necessary to keep the animals in place (and from eating each other).

• The amount of food required for the animals would weigh at least nearly as much as the animals, and would require a vast amount of storage space.

• Many of the animals aboard the ark would have required specific FRESH fruits, vegetables, leaves, grass, bark, roots, etc., including fresh fruits that are produced only on MATURE plants. Therefore, these mature plants would necessarily have been kept and maintained aboard the ark, and subsequently planted in the ground after the flood.

• Most of the genetically discrete populations of fish (including many VERY LARGE fish) would have to be taken aboard the ark and kept in tanks of water that met their very specific water chemistry needs in order to survive.

• The weight of the water on the earth would have crushed to death any of the land plants that did not drown in the water.

• After 150 days when the water abated, there would be no vegetation on the earth for the herbivores to eat, and no meat for the carnivores to eat, therefore a vast amount of food would necessarily have been kept aboard the ark to sustain the animals AFTER the flood.

• The Animals could not all be released all at once or in the same place because many of them would eat each other.

• The coming of the animals to Noah from all over the earth would have been a physical impossibility no less impossible than Santa Clause delivering presents to every boy and girl on the night before Christmas. The polar bears and penguins, not to mention all of the unique kinds of animals in Australia, would have posed more than a few special difficulties.

• After the flood, the animals could not be returned to their original habitat because all habitats would have been destroyed by the flood.

• Many of the necessary habitats would take 50 years or more to be reestablished and their reestablishment would have required the effort of many thousands of persons.

• Until all the necessary habitats could be reestablished, the animals requiring these habitats would have to be kept and cared for by Noah and his family.

• There was not enough water to cover the entire earth, and even if there was, where did it go after the flood?

• If the reported sightings of the Ark are factual, the Ark came to rest on a VERY high mountain on VERY rugged terrain from which the large majority of the animals would not have been able to descend.


A literal reading of Genesis 6-8 includes only four miracles:

1. God spoke to Noah (Gen 6:13-21; Gen. 7:1-4; Gen 8:17-18)

2. The LORD shut Noah in the ark (Gen. 7:16, KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, NAB, etc.)

3. “all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.” (Gen. 7:11, NRSV)

4. “God made a wind blow over the earth” (Gen. 8:1, NRSV)

Therefore, the narrative of Noah’s Ark cannot be a literal account of an historic event. Indescribably huge and very numerous miracles would have been necessary, and a literal interpretation of Genesis does not allow for these miracles because the point of the narrative is that through the natural, physical means of an ark built by Noah and his family, mankind and all the kinds of animals were saved from the floodwaters.


The problem is that you are trying to make human sense of something that is in of itself, wholly miraculous. The whole of creation is a miracle of God and so is the flood. God made the light first, to separate darkness, before He made the sun. Sounds weird, huh.--Well, just do a google search on the word "light"--it's very interesting what science has to say about it--light, not "sunlight". Do a word search on "sound"--the power of it. Science has some interesting things to say about that, also. God's word is power. What He says is. That is why He can not lie. If He says the grass is blue and the ocean is pink, they would immediately change to that, if He says 4+4=10--then it does. He invented physics, it did not invent Him. The rules of physics that apply to this world do not apply to other worlds and God is not bound by anything, everything is bound by what He says. The very waters obey His voice, every cell obeys Him--He made them.

You believe that the bible is a bunch of fairy tales so you are not going to believe that Elijah was given something to eat and he went on that for 40 days and 40 nights--it's impossible you say,--God says otherwise. You think it's impossible for a bunch of animals to survive without massive amounts of food present--God can do otherwise. Daniel was thrown into a den of lions and he was not eaten, but spent the night there and was fine in the morning, yet when his enemies were thrown down into the lions den, they were grabbed by the lions before they hit the ground. The animals when they were first created did not eat each other--you think God can not keep them from eating each other even now? One day, it will be as it was. You think that nothing could have existed after the flood, I say you have no idea what God allowed to exist after the flood and during the flood. God gave permission for man to eat meat after the flood because there was not much vegetation--and mans lifespan was severely shortened after that. But you have no idea what God had allowed for the animals to eat--What He says is--period. That is not something you can understand.

There is enough evidence to suggest a world wide flood, there are sea shells even on the high mountains--but it wouldn't matter if there was even much more evidence, you still would not believe for you choose not to believe what is there. You think a fresh water fish could not exist in salt water, or a saltwater fish in fresh water--if God says it, it will be, in spite of what you believe. God can take a bunch of animals on top of a high mountain and bring them down to the valley--God formed and spoke a whole planet into existence in 6 days--nothing is impossible for Him!

Look up "diamond planet"--there can be a whole planet out there that is a solid diamond--a huge gate in the new city made from one pearl is no big deal for God. I am so so very sorry that you have not even my simple believe in the mighty power of God.
 
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Metal Minister

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I got a question(I must preface this by saying I do not mean to offend any body), are there any creditable young earth creationists, that have creditable evidence?The reason I ask is that I would like to look at some creditable source because some YEC have been accused or guilty of lying and falsifying evidence.I need some good solid answers and please no fighting please thanks.

http://evolutionfairytale.com/forum//index.php?act=idx

While I disagree with the site owner's view on Christological issues, there are many good threads and a lot of good information there. I highly recommend starting a discussion with either gilbo1234, or Bonedigger, or lifepsyop. Life posts here from time to time as well.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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There is enough evidence to suggest a world wide flood, there are sea shells even on the high mountains--but it wouldn't matter if there was even much more evidence, you still would not believe for you choose not to believe what is there.

Ocean beds were lifted up due to the shifting of the tectonic plates that make up the crest of the earth, and the sea shells were lifted up with the ocean beds. During the last 55 years, this has been one of the most researched and well documented geological processes—largely because the shifting of these plates is now known to be the most frequent cause of earthquakes, especially the strongest ones. Unfortunately, some people are so committed to their erroneous religious beliefs that they choose not to believe what God has made known to the rest of us through a very careful and detailed study of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament and through the natural sciences.
 
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Bluelion

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Faith has absolutely nothing to do with whether the flood occurred. It either occurred, or it did not—regardless of anyone’s faith. Faith does NOT turn an epic tale into an accurate account of an historic event. A careful study of the Hebrew text of Genesis 1-11 has incontrovertibly proven that Genesis 1-11 is a collection of severely redacted epic tales, sagas, myths, and/or legends. The evidence for this interpretation is so overwhelming that virtually every Old Testament scholar specializing in the study of Genesis and currently publishing research on Genesis in major, peer-reviewed biblical journals agrees with this interpretation. Moreover, we have billions upon billions of pieces of data from the natural sciences that prove that the flood of Genesis 6-8 did NOT occur. The only dissenters are people whose religious beliefs prevent them from believing an academically defensible interpretation of the Bible, and whose religious beliefs prevent them from believing even the very basics of the natural sciences.

Yeah that is all untrue. I am taking Genesis right now. We are in the first 1- 11 It is taught literal at not only the largest Christians college in the world but Baptist at that. Your argument is also a fallacy Appeal to intelligent.

We are learning about the flaws with gap theory and that if you have any Hebrew understanding you can see between verse 1 and 2 there are no gaps.

Now you are debating core beliefs. are SOF says we hold the Bible with out error and you are saying it error. Its ok my understand the rules now say you can debate the statement of Faith if you are of that faith. DO you intent to debate the Bible?

Fact and you can look to science to this every indication is that there was a great flood and that all of land was under water at one time. You know how they know this because they have found fish and things of the sea in fossils on the highest mountains. Now How did they get there? Fact if you can not believe God's Word you can not believe in Jesus for He is The Living Word. SO do you believe in Jesus?

Science is not my God, but it is fun to watch and entertaining, like all good lies is mixs truth in in with it, but see truth is always truth and can be separated, and a lie is always lie and can be separated, so what they do is attach a lie to a truth and bam science. Some men want to create there own God they can control and worship how they please. Ahhh the rebellious son who rebels against authority how short your days truly are. But I ramble that was about science and not necessary directed at you.:)
 
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Bluelion

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I never listen to myself to stay out of these posts. I probably should. :)
I can't tell you what to believe and you can post hundreds of thousands of 'proofs' of studies done by men. I bet I can counter every one you post. It's a useless endless debate. I have read more about creationism and evolution the past few years then I ever thought possible. Nothing I will ever say will change your world view. I certainly don't intend to get into a debate either. I don't plan to continue posting in this thread anyways.
Probably my only last words will be this...get alone with God, His Holy word and read it for yourself. Don't look at any websites, don't look to men at all. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you read His word. Ask for discernment from Jesus. If you do that honestly from your heart and still believe Creation and the flood and Genesis 1-11 is still just an epic tale and not HIS STORY then that's between your creator and yourself. It's not a salvation issue. I just know for me and so many others, without a foundation (which Genesis is) there is no building. You take away the foundation and the building collapses.
God bless you :)

Hi friend, sorry you had a bad time posting. It is a salvation issues. Take this parallel God said if you hate your brother but claim to love God you are a lair that if you can not love your brother who you see you can not love God who you do not see. So you see that is a salvation issue. Now look at this if you can not believe all of God's word you can not believe Jesus who is literally God's living Word. So you see it is a salvation issues. Its very much an all or nothing deal. You must surrender your self to God. That mean you must except all God's word but you don't have to understand it all no one does. What that looks like is when I come across something where the bible seems to contradicted its self I say I do not understand and I pray God please show me and he does. My Faith, I have faith God is perfect and makes no errors and his word is with out any, so you see when I don't understand I say I am wrong not God.

On another not in another thread we were in some one was attempting to protect you from me. Indeed I have been called a danger to souls, I think I will wear that like a badge, but the question is which souls am i danger too?
You have to question any one who would tell you stay away from your brother or sister in Christ. That person is actively engaged in warfare with there brother, now we know God's house is not divided, so one of the two fighting brothers is no child of God, because God's children do not fight each other.

Don't take my word for it God says measure everyone who comes in His name with His word. Compare my words to what God says and see how I measure is all I ask Google them and if that doesn't work point them out to me or question me and I will show you where. My words can not stand but God's will never sway an inch.

Indeed I am a danger to some souls. :) sorry in a v for vendetta moood:p
blu
 
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Bluelion

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Ocean beds were lifted up due to the shifting of the tectonic plates that make up the crest of the earth, and the sea shells were lifted up with the ocean beds. During the last 55 years, this has been one of the most researched and well documented geological processes—largely because the shifting of these plates is now known to be the most frequent cause of earthquakes, especially the strongest ones. Unfortunately, some people are so committed to their erroneous religious beliefs that they choose not to believe what God has made known to the rest of us through a very careful and detailed study of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament and through the natural sciences.

care to kick around your Hebrew knowledge with me? what word in piratical points to it is all a lie? I call your bluff, at any give time I can ask any number of people with Phd in the field, it would not be the first time I gave a statement of a professor on here, I can think of the debate if this country was founded on Christians principles for one, and your references are?
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Princeton, I appreciate you sharing your testimony and the amazing transformations of other lives. It has blessing to see those things yourself.

I'm still a bit unsure of how you would answer some of the questions i had, and i certainly don't expect answers to all of them. I'll take one you stated and an old test story:
1. Do you believe their is a scientific explanation for Jesus' resurrection or was it completely of the Godhead, 3 in 1?
2. When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into the fiery furnace, was this an act of God they survived? Or do you reject this happened? Do you think a scientfic explanation can explain this? What about the Jesus(the fourth person seen) in there too? What about the man who died outisde?

I'm just trying to understand how you decide what is a miracle and what is testable in a science lab.

Science, because of its very nature, can neither affirm nor deny miracles. The Bible depicts the resurrection of Jesus as a miracle. It also depicts the absence of harm to Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego while in the furnace as a miracle. As a Christian, I believe in miracles; as a scientist, I ignore them.

The Bible does NOT depict the survival of marine life during the Genesis flood as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the survival of Noah’s family and the animals with them after the flood as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the abating of the waters after the flood as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the coming of the animals to Noah as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the survival of the animals on the ark as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the unsustainable weight of the cargo on the ark as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the animals having their dietary needs met as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the there being enough floor space on the ark as a miracle. The Bible depicts ALL of these events as being explainable WITHOUT any miracles being involved. Therefore, ALL of these events SHOULD BE explainable by science—but NONE of them can be! Therefore the story, as written, CANNOT be an accurate account of an historic event! However, it need not be an accurate account of an historic event in order to be the word of God—for God is He who is sovereign, and not the fundamentalist Christian or Muslim.
 
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Bluelion

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Science, because of its very nature, can neither affirm nor deny miracles. The Bible depicts the resurrection of Jesus as a miracle. It also depicts the absence of harm to Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego while in the furnace as a miracle. As a Christian, I believe in miracles; as a scientist, I ignore them.

The Bible does NOT depict the survival of marine life during the Genesis flood as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the survival of Noah’s family and the animals with them after the flood as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the abating of the waters after the flood as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the coming of the animals to Noah as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the survival of the animals on the ark as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the unsustainable weight of the cargo on the ark as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the animals having their dietary needs met as a miracle. The Bible does NOT depict the there being enough floor space on the ark as a miracle. The Bible depicts ALL of these events as being explainable WITHOUT any miracles being involved. Therefore, ALL of these events SHOULD BE explainable by science—but NONE of them can be! Therefore the story, as written, CANNOT be an accurate account of an historic event! However, it need not be an accurate account of an historic event in order to be the word of God—for God is He who is sovereign, and not the fundamentalist Christian or Muslim.

call God a lair while calling him God interesting, been done before :)
 
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AmericanChristian91

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call God a lair while calling him God interesting, been done before :)

He is not calling God a liar. Noah's flood story was not written God but by men. The bible being inspired by God does not mean that every story in the bible is supposed to be as historically/scientifically accurate as possible. God also allows some freedom to the writers in what goes In the bible. The main purpose of the bible is not that of a history book (in other words not everything is intended to be factual history) nor a science book.
 
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Bluelion

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He is not calling God a liar. Noah's flood story was not written God but by men. The bible being inspired by God does not mean that every story in the bible is supposed to be as historical accurate as possible. God also allows some freedom to the writers in what goes In the bible.

and you don't understand what inspired by God means, Fact is if you don't believes God's word you can not Believe in Jesus the Living Word.

It's called faith.

Inspired by God does not mean, man thought of God and wrote this. It means man wrote it under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.
 
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AmericanChristian91

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and you don't understand what inspired by God means, Fact is if you don't believes God's word you can not Believe in Jesus the Living Word.

It's called faith.

Inspired by God does not mean, man thought of God and wrote this. It means man wrote it under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.

Yes God did guide them, but what does "guidance" mean in this case? Does it mean God spoke to them directly and told them word for word what to write down? Or can it mean another method?
 
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Bluelion

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Yes God did guide them, but what does "guidance" mean in this case? Does it mean God spoke to them directly and told them word for word what to write down? Or can it mean another method?

The what that mean by my school and many others is this. The Holy Spirit filled them, they spoke the words by way of The Holy Spirit but retained their own personality traits in the writings. Does that mean God said write this like a voice, no. It means they wrote by way of The Holy Spirt if you have never done it you might not understand that. When you write by The Holy Spirit you are learning just as much as the person will when they read it, so simplified God wrote it, but retain the personality of the writers. That is what they teach those going into ministry, at my college any way.
 
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Bluelion

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Paul said in cor not to follow those who come preaching something different then him, and again God tells us check everyone who comes in the name of the Lord With The Word of God. So if some one claims to be a teacher yet rejects any part of God's word, what does that say? My God says if they reject the Word they reject Jesus who is the Living Word.
 
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AmericanChristian91

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My God says if they reject the Word they reject Jesus who is the Living Word.
I'm not rejecting it, I just have a different interpretation then you do. I don't believe the main reason of the Noah's flood myth to be put into the bible, is the reason of historical accuracy. God does not Always teach through history.
 
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Bluelion

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I'm not rejecting it, I just have a different interpretation then you do. I don't believe the main reason of the Noah's flood myth to be put into the bible, is the reason of historical accuracy. God does not Always teach through history.

and hence i say again you call God a lair while calling Him God.

Yeah interpretation there can only be one, we are of one mind. Those who claim to be teachers and say The Flood is myth and did not happen are false teachers according to God. We may not always understand, or see things differently but we don't call Prefect God and say He made a mistake. You are blaspheming God.

Ever hear a preacher say if one word in the bible is unture it all is? That is because if one word is wrong there is no way to tell what is true and what is not so the whole Bible must be thrown out.

Those kind of false teachers are not the worse in fact they are probably the lost on the false teacher scale. To come out and deny God is easy to see.
 
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Bluelion

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I'm not rejecting it, I just have a different interpretation then you do. I don't believe the main reason of the Noah's flood myth to be put into the bible, is the reason of historical accuracy. God does not Always teach through history.

and hence i say again you call God a lair while calling Him God.

Yeah interpretation there can only be one, we are of one mind. Those who claim to be teachers and say The Flood is myth and did not happen are false teachers according to God. We may not always understand, or see things differently but we don't call Prefect God and say He made a mistake. You are blaspheming God.

Ever hear a preacher say if one word in the bible is untrue it all is? That is because if one word is wrong there is no way to tell what is true and what is not so the whole Bible must be thrown out.

Those kind of false teachers are not the worse in fact they are probably the lost on the false teacher scale. To come out and deny God is easy to see.
 
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Bluelion

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I'm not rejecting it, I just have a different interpretation then you do. I don't believe the main reason of the Noah's flood myth to be put into the bible, is the reason of historical accuracy. God does not Always teach through history.

and hence i say again you call God a lair while calling Him God.

Yeah interpretation there can only be one, we are of one mind. Those who claim to be teachers and say The Flood is myth and did not happen are false teachers according to God. We may not always understand, or see things differently but we don't call Prefect God and say He made a mistake. You are blaspheming God.

Ever hear a preacher say if one word in the bible is unture it all is? That is because if one word is wrong there is no way to tell what is true and what is not so the whole Bible must be thrown out.

Those kind of false teachers are not the worse in fact they are probably the lost on the false teacher scale. To come out and deny God is easy to see.
 
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