The missing piece of the YOU ARE PETER puzzle

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Standing Up

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No, Jesus changed Peter's name to rock and on Peter's new name of rock is what Jesus built His church upon, Why would Jesus build His earthly church upon Himself when He knew that He would be returning to heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. A shepherd would never leave his flock without a tangible shepherd to command [ same commands ] the sheep.

You're familiar with the Holy Ghost?
 
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sunlover1

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barryatlake

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You need to think that which Jesus left us with, He never left us with a religious guide book [ the very inerrant Word of God meaning the completed Holy Bible ], but He did leave us His church which was formed on his apostles with Peter as the earthly teacher while Jesus being the Universal Teacher. Jesus told His Apostolic Church this: " I am with you all days, even unto the consummation of the world." [ Matt.28: 18-20 ]. God gave His Holy Spirit only to His Apostolic Church [ Luke 10: 16 ] for matters of Faith and Morals,

Further on in the Book of John, Jesus tells only His Apostles: " As the Father has sent me, I also send you." The Holy Spirit is also given to those who open their hearts up to Jesus, the Holy Spirit leads us to Jesus. The Holy Spirit was first upon the Apostles in the upper chamber with Tongues of Fire, the other 120 did not receive the HS. Then again later the Holy Spirit came again only upon the Apostles in the form of a Dove.
The Church received the Holy Spirit in matters of Church affairs, example, in guiding the Bishops of his Apostolic Church in selecting the correct canon of Holy Sacred Scripture [completed Holy Bible ] etc.
Both Apostolic Church along with the Holy Bible are necessary for the correct understanding of the Teachings of Jesus. Individual interpretation was never practiced by any Christian before the 16th. Century as per bible. " This, then, you must understand first of all , that no prophesy of Scripture is made by private interpretation ".
 
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Root of Jesse

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You're familiar with the Holy Ghost?

You mean the one which guides the Church in all Truth? THAT Holy Ghost? The one Jesus promised his successors would be with them until He returns?

Yes. How does that negate Peter as being the Rock the Church is built upon? And if that's true, how does it negate Jesus being the rock or cornerstone? The fact is, it doesn't.
 
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Standing Up

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You mean the one which guides the Church in all Truth? THAT Holy Ghost? The one Jesus promised his successors would be with them until He returns?

Yes. How does that negate Peter as being the Rock the Church is built upon? And if that's true, how does it negate Jesus being the rock or cornerstone? The fact is, it doesn't.

Okay, so we're in accord that the Spirit is given to believers. We're not left alone.

Does that mean only RC? Of course not, even your group recognizes EO as legitimate successors, even though EO and RC contradict each other at numerous doctrinal points (papacy for example). That in itself proves even RC (leadership) doesn't really believe Peter=Rock anymore; Unam Sanctum notwithstanding.
 
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Albion

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I agree.......such as the innovation of the "invisible church".

You can't see the "Communion of saints," either, but so long as that's a term the Roman Catholic Church uses...you're all for it and think it makes perfect sense. ^_^
 
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Albion

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Albion, you will need both the" Catechism of the Catholic Church" along with opening your bible to Matt. 25: 31 and 1 Cor.15: 26-27 to understand " Communion of Saints "

Try to understand the point of that post, barry.

You folks can ridicule the "invisible church," but you ought to be consistent and diss the "communion of saints" on the same basis. It also is invisible but real.
 
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concretecamper

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You can't see the "Communion of saints," either, but so long as that's a term the Roman Catholic Church uses...you're all for it and think it makes perfect sense. ^_^

I SEE.......Anglicans believe only what they can see? I'll let your own members take you up on that one.;)
 
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concretecamper

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Try to understand the point of that post, barry.

You folks can ridicule the "invisible church," but you ought to be consistent and diss the "communion of saints" on the same basis. It also is invisible but real.

Nice try....... The invisible church is rejected not because it is invisible, but because there is no basis for it in Scripture or Tradition.
 
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Rick Otto

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The invisible church isn't invisible, per se. The term is used in service of a distinction it makes between the real spiritual church composed of every individual bound for heaven vs any of the various organizations that claim to be "the one true Church", as if faith could be franchised, licensed as it were; scriptural advice against including:
Luke 9:49: And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
[50] And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
 
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concretecamper

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Luke 9:49

AMBROSE; Now why does He in this place say that they are not to be hindered, who by the imposition of hands can subdue the unclean spirits, when according to Matthew, He says to these, I never knew you? But we ought to perceive that there is no difference of opinion, but that the decision is this, that not only the official works but works of virtue are required in a priest, and that the name of Christ is so great, that even to the unholy it serves to give defense, but not grace. Let no one then claim to himself the grace of cleansing a man, because in him the power of the eternal Name has worked. For not by your merits, but by his own hatred, the devil is conquered.
 
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Optimax

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15 Jesus then said to them, “But [you], who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God!”
17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 I also tell you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he commanded his disciples not to tell anyone that he was Jesus, the Christ. - The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (Mt 16:15–20). Laurent A. Cleenewerck (2011).

"The Greek phrasing of this declaration, when compared with that of v. 16, conveys a reciprocity which can be rendered in English only by heavy overtranslation. Simon has declared “You are the Messiah,” to which Jesus now responds “And I in my turn have a declaration for you: You are Peter.” - France, R. T. (2007). The Gospel of Matthew (pp. 620–621). Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publication Co.

Because "You are the Christ" is connected to "the Son of the living God", symmetry implies "You are Rock (petros)" is connected to "and upon this the Rock (petra) I will build my church."

But that ignores the change in gender καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ (female) requiring it refers back to the female object revealed to Peter, the revelation (ἀποκάλυψιν, female) Jesus is the Christ, "the Son of the living God" he confessed. Compare Καὶ ἐπὶ τούτῳ ἦλθον οἱ μαθηταὶ (Joh 4:27 STE), "And upon this [word λόγος] came the disciples."

"You are PeTeR ( compare Strong's 6363)

"And upon this [revelation that gave you life] the [water gushing] Petra, I will build my church."

Therefore parsimony requires PETROS in Aramaic is not Kepha but PETROS, a homonym to the Greek PETROS "stone", meaning "First" or "First born".

compare:

πρῶτος Σίμων ὁ λεγόμενος Πέτρος (Mat 10:2 STE),
"First Simon, the one called PETROS"

Where "First" is not followed by "Second" or "Third" so this is not a numbered list.

Simon is "the first" born of the gospel of Christ and that is why he gets the keys having the binding and loosing power first, before everyone who follows born again by confessing the gospel of Christ, that He is the Son of the Living God.

That Simon was called PeTeR before he met Christ, is clear:

And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. (Mat 4:18 NKJ)

40 One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's (PETROS) brother.
41 He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, "We have found the Messiah " (which is translated, the Christ).
42 And he brought him to Jesus. Now when Jesus looked at him, He said, "You are Simon the son of Jonah. You shall be called Cephas " (which is translated, A Stone). (Joh 1:40-42 NKJ)

Therefore the Orthodox are correct it is the specific point of faith Peter confessed that is the Rock upon which the church is built, as in the parallel building upon a PETRA in Mat 7:24-25.

The "rock" that the church is built on is not Peter.

The "rock" is the knowledge that was revealed to Peter by The Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit reveals the truth of the word of God to "the church".

The church is people who are saved/born again/from above (Rom 10:9)

It is the strength of that revealed knowledge to the saved/born again/from above (Rom 10:9) people that the gates of hell cannot prevail against.

Those who have not that revealed knowledge from the Holy Spirit saved/born again/from above (Rom 10:9) or not will not be able to prevail against "the gates of hell".

They are deceived and taken captive by the devil whenever he wants.
 
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