Saddleback Church supports wife batterers

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,925
8,039
✟575,142.44
Faith
Messianic
  • Like
Reactions: psalms 91
Upvote 0

jiminpa

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 4, 2004
4,080
760
✟282,507.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
MichaelMyNameIs, I usually respect you, even when I disagree with you. I strongly disagree with you. I have been free from an abusive wife for decades now, and there are still places that it has a negative effect on my spirit. Persecution and martyrdom from outside sources is not the same as an abusive marriage.

Unfortunately, separation gives no legal relief, and leaves the victim even more vulnerable in other areas. An abusive spouse can do irreversible financial harm as long as the marriage is legally intact, and during separation the abused spouse is not around to be manage the damage. An experienced abuser can use the separation to actually tighten the control, and assure that the victim will never try to be free again.

To the victim, like others have said, being forced out of a church that is willing to join with an abuser is not a bad thing. You were in an organization that was more corporation than congregation, and they forcefully gave you the opportunity to find a true church. They did you a favor and I hope you took advantage of it.
 
Upvote 0

Messy

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
10,027
2,082
Holland
✟21,082.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Synogogue attendees still get divorced too....

Variation in divorce rates by religion:

Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%


U.S. divorce rates: for various faith groups, age groups and geographical areas
Sorry I meant SCOAN Synagogue Church of all Nations from T. B. Joshua. I saw a movie: wife beats me up, marriage from hell. Wish we had gone there. They can't help with the real hard cases here.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,254
20,262
US
✟1,450,958.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well done RDKirk. That is a movement in the church that holds tremendous merit. Would love to learn of the results as well. Were those unions restored? Did they remain separated? Should be in a how to book if you ask me! I was a member on Pastors.com because I was a leader in the church at the time and no one there had any tips even close to what you have laid out. Mostly they wanted to shift in their seat and not address it properly.

Names, dates, results, and numbers were kept confidential, but generalities about the use of the "House of Ruth" were released at times that it couldn't be traced to particular people. The "House of Ruth" was also used by the church's ministry to the Honolulu prostitutes as a place to take a woman immediately off the street and into care and treatment (and away from her pimp) when she gave her life to Christ.
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,925
8,039
✟575,142.44
Faith
Messianic
Sorry I meant SCOAN Synagogue Church of all Nations from T. B. Joshua. I saw a movie: wife beats me up, marriage from hell. Wish we had gone there. They can't help with the real hard cases here.
Hard core cases are often the worse without any salvageable answers.
 
Upvote 0

SFerber

Newbie Saved By GRACE
Nov 21, 2014
11
10
Visit site
✟15,286.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
May you all enjoy a wonderful Thanksgiving for those living in the States. For those living elsewhere have an inspired week. I want to thank every single one of you who took time to converse on this subject. It can be a very hot topic and it can trigger a lot of unhealed wounds. My hope is that each of you would take a half a step back and realize we are all on the same team, we play different positions but we all ultimately want the same thing. At the end of the day, may we see that our differences are small and our love and compassion is great.

I truly with all of my heart thank you for taking the time to have an opinion here even though it was skewed to your own personal experiences. Keep in mind. my husband and I separated after 1 altercation. Not all persons are that fortunate. If you suspect there is anything like this going on...it is our duty to reach out and help the family heal, however the Holy Spirit leads. Not according to pride on anyone's part.

and for those who have PM'd me. I am unable to respond until I reach the threshold of 15 posts or so. I am not intentionally ignoring you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟101,992.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
MichaelMyNameIs, I usually respect you, even when I disagree with you. I strongly disagree with you. I have been free from an abusive wife for decades now, and there are still places that it has a negative effect on my spirit. Persecution and martyrdom from outside sources is not the same as an abusive marriage.

Unfortunately, separation gives no legal relief, and leaves the victim even more vulnerable in other areas. An abusive spouse can do irreversible financial harm as long as the marriage is legally intact, and during separation the abused spouse is not around to be manage the damage. An experienced abuser can use the separation to actually tighten the control, and assure that the victim will never try to be free again.

To the victim, like others have said, being forced out of a church that is willing to join with an abuser is not a bad thing. You were in an organization that was more corporation than congregation, and they forcefully gave you the opportunity to find a true church. They did you a favor and I hope you took advantage of it.
then sadly you have simply missed what i said.. everyone ,bar one,(who has been most gracious),read into it from a emotional and carnal legal political worldview stance.

not a a spiritual biblical stance of faith,, the west does appear to believe words like .. i called unto the lord in my distress and he delivered me or call unto me and i will answer thee... and because it does not believe god is able to help,heal, restore ,deliver..it teaches them, not scripture ,but worldly philosophy..and in this the church is failing them .
..
and my ex (shes remarried) and i are now brother and sister in our lord and get on wonderfully being restored to peace in our heavenly fathers house..with God all things are possible.. restoring marriage is not the end game..restoring right standing in God through christ jesus ,who, while we were yet dead in sin- ,haters,malicious,murderers,spiteful,lovers of self ,violent and base..- laid down his life for us.. is the end game .(being in a happy marriage does not save ones soul)
you see i'm simply promoting a love that exceeds worldly concept ..a love that desires nothing but that all be saved...

folks must not add things ,by assumption, that i did not say.
 
Upvote 0

jiminpa

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jul 4, 2004
4,080
760
✟282,507.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Marriage does not save one's soul, but an abusive enough marriage can destroy one's faith.

I've had 20 years to look back on my first marriage, and I the only times I regretted the divorce were times that I was listening to the lies of The Accuser. My ex-wife almost killed me once. Letting that continue to escalate would have served only Satan.

To her credit, my first wife is not that same person now, but I would never have seen that if we had stayed married.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: bèlla
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟101,992.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
but an abusive enough marriage can destroy one's faith
.
i long to find words so gentle to point out that this type of thinking is the very crux of what im saying in regard to love and faith and the western error.
it ,the sentiment, opposes scripture ..nothing can separate us, ..
note i have not ever suggested a person remain in a position to be cruelly beaten ..our god given common sense seeks to avoid such blows..im not really addressing that aspect of the topic at all,but rather the spiritual precepts of godly love which sees the offender as demonically imprisoned in self hate shame and sin and desires their salvation at any cost..even death on a cross .
all else is minor in comparison.scripture says so..our present sufferings being not comparable to the glories to come..,and we must note the setting this was written was a time where being dragged off and put to death was a reality.yey we are taught to pray for our captives.. the same adversary who inspired men to so beat and murder works today in the sinful hearts of men who wickedly bash others.
some inferred i was trying to encourage a victim become a martyr.. on the contrary..because of the spiritual evil attacking them i honor them with the recognition that..they already are.. and agree with the holy script that their escape is into God .. for with him ..all things are possible ..BELIEVE only BELIEVE..

i will leave it at that because expounding more risks perceptional misunderstanding..
and these words summarize it well enough Love Hope faith.. ..Only believe
 
Upvote 0

Messy

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
10,027
2,082
Holland
✟21,082.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I know what you mean.
If some devils had been kicked out instead of my ex and me fighting each other we would still be married. He hit me physically and I did it verbally. Oh well we're good friends now and the demons are gone and we can help others now in that situation.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SFerber

Newbie Saved By GRACE
Nov 21, 2014
11
10
Visit site
✟15,286.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Well HELLO all those who have opined on this very real case. I am THE PERSON IN QUESTION. Sheri Ferber I do not go by a code name. The article was written years after the fact for good reason. I was an active participant of the Family Life Forum now defunct. People walked the journey with me. I was healing along side of others and offering myself where possible. I served GOD in and out of the church. I have nothing what so ever to hide. I wanted my then church to understand the cancer that was festering and how they were behaving like a corporation or a mob. Rick Warren was insulated from ever having to face what was happening under his leadership. I have a long list of people I knew personally, some I worked with who were part of the coverup.

Nothing about the story is fabricated, everything is provable. But this is not about that. This is about a church body who allows abuse, covers it up and hushes up the person speaking out. It was quite painful, especially given how plugged into the ministry there I had been. I started in 1993/1994, served in several ministries for which the church has proper records an I have certificates of. This isn't the point. Again the point is, there was a cancer allowed to be there but covered up. I had others contact me about their experience as well. There came a point in 2009 where I chose to let the story be told in hopes healing would begin. For the church - and perhaps give our son access to his father. Another stain on the church, being how they kept an innocent child from his father who was serving on the worship team.

in 2017 ish Tom Atkins a pastor and someone directly involved had a surprise encounter with me and my son at one of the satellite churches Laguna Hills. My son was there serving on the worship schedule singing, Tom was a lead pastor. So they met, Tom and our son took a photo together and I trusted that GOD would deal with Tom's heart for the role he played as my once small group leader, turned, judaslike by going to my husband to report that I had come to him about being assaulted. The facts of what happened have multiple witnesses, including Mark and I.


We do have a son who is now 16 years old and a stunning gift straight from heaven.

Mark and I were reunited on or about November 17/19th 6ish years ago. Angela helped make it happen. GOD is faithful and is a Redeemer. In the years after whilst speaking with Mark on the phone he put the phone over to his mother Miss Charlotte, the woman who introduced me to her son 4 years prior to our marriage.

By the grace of GOD Mark and I are co parenting.

When the article was written it was in part because the church was protecting themselves and hiding Mark (who was not a member but did begin serving in ministry there after our separation) He and I both feel that what the church did and did not do in our case still needs to be accounted for. I wanted the church to CLEAN ITSELF UP and I wanted my son to have access to his father and their blood line.

Kathryn was not the only person to write an article. There are 2 articles written. Diane Sawyer was in touch with the 2nd author and was asking me to give her an interview. I have all of the correspondence for this.

Mark and I did not have an abusive relationship. We had a train wreck tragedy hit us, and hit us hard.

The church did not help us fix it, as much as I wanted, needed, begged and pleaded. They wanted to be protected and I was censored.

The real story is STILL exists.
The church = Saddleback Valley Community Church in Lake Forest California under the leadership if Rick Warren.
The church has a position on physical abuse in a marriage that is not GODLY
The church has not taken steps to correct this position
The church still has time to fix it and I still hold out hope that they will reach out to me to learn the facts.

For all those here who opined, judged, doubted - that is your right and duty. I invite you to go to the source. I am a real person, with a real faith, and real experience that really needs to be looked into so it stops.
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,813
10,794
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟831,404.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Well HELLO all those who have opined on this very real case. I am THE PERSON IN QUESTION. Sheri Ferber I do not go by a code name. The article was written years after the fact for good reason. I was an active participant of the Family Life Forum now defunct. People walked the journey with me. I was healing along side of others and offering myself where possible. I served GOD in and out of the church. I have nothing what so ever to hide. I wanted my then church to understand the cancer that was festering and how they were behaving like a corporation or a mob. Rick Warren was insulated from ever having to face what was happening under his leadership. I have a long list of people I knew personally, some I worked with who were part of the coverup.

Nothing about the story is fabricated, everything is provable. But this is not about that. This is about a church body who allows abuse, covers it up and hushes up the person speaking out. It was quite painful, especially given how plugged into the ministry there I had been. I started in 1993/1994, served in several ministries for which the church has proper records an I have certificates of. This isn't the point. Again the point is, there was a cancer allowed to be there but covered up. I had others contact me about their experience as well. There came a point in 2009 where I chose to let the story be told in hopes healing would begin. For the church - and perhaps give our son access to his father. Another stain on the church, being how they kept an innocent child from his father who was serving on the worship team.

in 2017 ish Tom Atkins a pastor and someone directly involved had a surprise encounter with me and my son at one of the satellite churches Laguna Hills. My son was there serving on the worship schedule singing, Tom was a lead pastor. So they met, Tom and our son took a photo together and I trusted that GOD would deal with Tom's heart for the role he played as my once small group leader, turned, judaslike by going to my husband to report that I had come to him about being assaulted. The facts of what happened have multiple witnesses, including Mark and I.


We do have a son who is now 16 years old and a stunning gift straight from heaven.

Mark and I were reunited on or about November 17/19th 6ish years ago. Angela helped make it happen. GOD is faithful and is a Redeemer. In the years after whilst speaking with Mark on the phone he put the phone over to his mother Miss Charlotte, the woman who introduced me to her son 4 years prior to our marriage.

By the grace of GOD Mark and I are co parenting.

When the article was written it was in part because the church was protecting themselves and hiding Mark (who was not a member but did begin serving in ministry there after our separation) He and I both feel that what the church did and did not do in our case still needs to be accounted for. I wanted the church to CLEAN ITSELF UP and I wanted my son to have access to his father and their blood line.

Kathryn was not the only person to write an article. There are 2 articles written. Diane Sawyer was in touch with the 2nd author and was asking me to give her an interview. I have all of the correspondence for this.

Mark and I did not have an abusive relationship. We had a train wreck tragedy hit us, and hit us hard.

The church did not help us fix it, as much as I wanted, needed, begged and pleaded. They wanted to be protected and I was censored.

The real story is STILL exists.
The church = Saddleback Valley Community Church in Lake Forest California under the leadership if Rick Warren.
The church has a position on physical abuse in a marriage that is not GODLY
The church has not taken steps to correct this position
The church still has time to fix it and I still hold out hope that they will reach out to me to learn the facts.

For all those here who opined, judged, doubted - that is your right and duty. I invite you to go to the source. I am a real person, with a real faith, and real experience that really needs to be looked into so it stops.
It is a real shame that the godly, genuine believers in that church do not speak up against the ungodly attitude of some of the leaders of that church who are not representing Christ to those who are suffering through abusive relationships. It is an example of godless hypocrites calling the shots while good people do nothing. What that church needs is some godly prophets who will raise their voices like trumpets and be watchmen who will use the sword of the Spirit and be valiant for truth allowing the Word of God to be alive and powerful to cut right into the lies and coverups.

Rick Warren is the senior pastor of that church. He can't make the excuse that he doesn't know what is going on with the leadership under him. As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, the buck stops with him. This is why his church is based on the wisdom of man in the way it practices. His book "Purpose Driven Life" is based on worldly wisdom, using business practices to grow his church. He is not about the Gospel of Christ, but more bums on seats. All he can accomplish is to fill his church with disciples like himself, full of religiosity and worldly wisdom.

His church is working to protect its reputation, when Christ Himself became of no reputation. Reputation meant nothing to Him. He was concerned with seeking and saving the lost, and if that meant that most saw Him as a blasphemer and deceiver, and then being crucified as a common criminal, then so be it.

Do you know the church groups that have the most effect for the Gospel and saving those who are lost? The relatively unknown and despised by other more "respectable" churches and the world. Why? Too many sinners, ex-criminals, ex-prostitutes, homeless tramps, and other "dregs" of society attending and being converted to Christ. I don't think you would get many of those people anywhere near Warren's church. Too much dirt to soil its "showcase" reputation.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

hislegacy

Memories pre 2021
Site Supporter
Nov 15, 2006
43,852
14,000
Broken Arrow, OK
✟699,426.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Is Andrew Wommack's son, Jonathan Peter Wommack, still in jail?
Are either of them part of Sattleback? And what is the connection between him and this 12 year old thread?
 
  • Like
Reactions: jiminpa
Upvote 0