Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

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ebedmelech

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The purpose of the 3rd Temple is not for sacrifices. That's your misunderstanding. The 3rd Temple is where Jesus will reign from on earth.
The misunderstanding is on you, Once again the temple is THE CHURCH....not some building.

Paul made that clear as he preached in Acts 17:24:
24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

So now...what really is the temple??? It's God's people Jews and Gentiles as Paul CLEARLY teaches in Ephesians 2:19-22
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.


Now Peter in 1 Peter 2:4-6:
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For this is contained in Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”


Once again, reading scripture...and not READING INTO scripture make the point. You cannot find this temple of Ezekiel 40-48 AT ALL because it's a vision Ezekiel had. When John tells us more about in Revelation 21:22:
22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Did not Jesus already tell you He's the temple in John 2:19?:
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

It's very clear!!!
So the problem remains for you since Israel is a nation again exactly when Ezekiel prophesied, how does that make you feel that the Jews have reclaimed their land? How will you feel when construction on the 3rd Temple begins? Does this increase your hatred towards the Jews like Luther did or do you think that is a wrong attitude and esponse to our little brother the Jews?
You *think* it's a problem for me...and as usual the same old tired "you hate Israel stuff" is thrown because you can't read scripture properly!

The only people that hate Israel are you who want to heard Jews back to Israel for some imaginative tribulation you believe they have to go through where some antichrist is going to slaughter them. Something that is NOT in scripture! The scriptures don't teach that...you contrive it from scripture.

Furthermore you deny Jesus reigns, and you *think* Satan controls this world...it borders on blasphemy and certainly denies what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 before He ascended:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Your eschatology denies the facts!
 
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crosssaved

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Paul was speaking about the SECOND temple which was still standing. He had said that the man of sin was ALREADY SEATED in the temple.

who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God has sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- [the day doth not come]. Young's Literal Translation

Note that Paul said that the man of sin "is opposing" and "is raising" himself up and that he "has sat down" in the temple.

The man of sin was alive and ready to be revealed in Paul's day. The man of sin was to desecrate the second and FINAL temple.
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thess. 2.3).

I am not to let you deceive me by any means, for Paul said that day has not come yet.

You don't know who the man of sin who bears the number of the beast 666. You should know if it already happened.
 
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crosssaved

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The misunderstanding is on you, Once again the temple is THE CHURCH....not some building.

Paul made that clear as he preached in Acts 17:24:
24 The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

So now...what really is the temple??? It's God's people Jews and Gentiles as Paul CLEARLY teaches in Ephesians 2:19-22
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Now Peter in 1 Peter 2:4-6:
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For this is contained in Scripture: “Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”


Once again, reading scripture...and not READING INTO scripture make the point. You cannot find this temple of Ezekiel 40-48 AT ALL because it's a vision Ezekiel had. When John tells us more about in Revelation 21:22:
22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Did not Jesus already tell you He's the temple in John 2:19?:
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

It's very clear!!!

You *think* it's a problem for me...and as usual the same old tired "you hate Israel stuff" is thrown because you can't read scripture properly!

The only people that hate Israel are you who want to heard Jews back to Israel for some imaginative tribulation you believe they have to go through where some antichrist is going to slaughter them. Something that is NOT in scripture! The scriptures don't teach that...you contrive it from scripture.

Furthermore you deny Jesus reigns, and you *think* Satan controls this world...it borders on blasphemy and certainly denies what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 before He ascended:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Your eschatology denies the facts!
What Christian thinks the 3rd Temple is the Church?

Don't confuse the 3rd Temple with Jesus' body. Jesus' body was risen on the 3rd day, not the 3rd Temple. The 3rd Temple will take about 2 or 3 years to build.
 
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crosssaved

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The scripture in John 12 was speaking about the Jewish leadership. In the old testament the Jewish leadership was called "the prince." Christ's hearers would have understood the term "prince of this world" in tis old testament context.

In 2 Corinthians 4:4 Paul was speaking about God. Paul used the term "ho theos" which is reserved for God only. Paul would NEVER have called satan "ho theos." That would have been blasphemous.

But here is the death blow to the idea that Paul was speaking about satan. Paul said that Christ is the image of "ho theos."

The God (ho theos) of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (ho theos).

The idea that satan is "ho theos" implies that Christ is in the image of satan. Satan is NOWHERE mentioned in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The idea that Paul was speaking about satan is superstition and blasphemous.
You think Satan who is the god of this world is the Trinity? The lexicon says "a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities". Satan blinds, not God. Christ and the image of God are contrasted to the first god mentioned.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4.4). Satan will no longer be the god of this world, ruler of this world, prince of the air, when he is thrown into the pit for 1000 years.

Why do you try to cast out God by changing this ruler who is Satan to God?

"Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out" (John 12.31).
 
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crosssaved

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The only people that hate Israel are you who want to heard Jews back to Israel for some imaginative tribulation you believe they have to go through where some antichrist is going to slaughter them.

Furthermore you deny Jesus reigns, and you *think* Satan controls this world...it borders on blasphemy and certainly denies what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 before He ascended:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Antichrist is going to slaughter Christians, Jews, the sheep nations, etc. Christians who do not overcometh are not first raptured but pass through the Tribulation. The Jews come back to the land, they are not herded. All your words are so Satanic misrepresenting reality. You try to stop the Jews. How evil. If you had your way you would shove the nation of Israel off into the Mediterranean. Are you sure you are not Muslim? Nazis wanted this too. You would have no place for them to live. You are evil. This is not how to treat our little brother. You don't know evil for evil of the Antichrist is coming. But you will embrace him because you will deny he is so bad.

Satan has no power over Christians because Christians have died on the cross rendering Satan impotent. But he still works in this world. We can cast out demons. Jesus has authority by the cross, but that doesn't mean He is reigning on earth right now. What kind of authority would that be that you suggest with Jesus unable to stop wars. But there are wars and rumors of wars, and 10,000 children die every day due to starvation, so what kind of millennial peace is that where you claim your god has authority? I detest your thoughts. Whereas my God says He has not returned yet, so He cannot yet reign with a rod of iron; He reigns above, but not yet on earth with a rod of iron for He has not yet returned whom you reject when He does so.

You forgot verse Matt. 28.19,20: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." It's not about reigning with a rod iron yet as is promised in Rev. 2.26,27 to those who overcometh.

You have a fantasy faith but reality is most people in governmental power and head of corporations are not Christians. That's quite a pathetic authority if you ask me if this was the millennial kingdom.
 
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crosssaved

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"Do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months (Rev. 11.2).

Rev. 11.15 is the 7th trumpet of the Tribulation. Rev. 9 holds the 5th and 6th Trumpets. These 3 trumpets are called the 3 woes and the 7th trumpet contains the 7 bowls of wrath in Rev. 15 & 16. Rev. 10 is an interjection. Rev. 11.2 mentions the physical Temple. Revelation was written by John 95 AD. This future event after 95 AD can't refer to 70 AD. Since when was Jerusalem invaded and the temple not destroyed? But here we see in Rev. 11.2 the Temple is not harmed.

Why not measure the court? Because it is overrun during the Great Tribulation, but the 3rd Temple will not be harmed so measure it certainly. Measure is reference to protection.
 
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crosssaved

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I am speechless how bizarrely amills read. They say 2 Thess. 2.4 already happened though they don't know who this person is. If it already happened why don't you know who it is?

It hasn't happened yet, for Jesus has not returned yet...

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (2 Thess. 2.1).
 
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"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Cor. 4.6).

Whereas Satan...

"...the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4.4).

So Amills, Postmills and Preterists follow Satan.
 
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crosssaved

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One things for sure...all of us will be wrong about our eschatology in some way...but you futurist are really going to be speechless!!!
We don't have to be wrong if we are humble. Don't believe that lie. We can read the Bible correctly.

Are you saying you are going to be speechless when you see construction on the 3rd Temple begin no later than 2020?

Are you going to revile Jesus speechlessly when He returns to reign in the 3rd Temple?

Are you speechless when you observed the signs in Rev. 6.12 2010-2015 before the Tribulation?

Are you going to accuse the brethren day and night speechlessly (Rev. 12.10) who are first raptured?

When Antichrist erects himself in the 3rd Temple will you embrace him speechlessly because you claim he doesn't exist and it can't happen? He says he is God.

Some food for thought!
 
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I think the main reason "theos" is used in 2 Cor. 4.4 is because he attempts to "resemble" God to gain peoples' worship. The entire context is weird if the first "theos" is God. God is never called the "God of this age" as though just temporary.

"In whom the god of this age hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4.4).

Think how strange that would be if God blinds people "lest" meaning "for fear that" the gospel should shine on us. God wants to shine the gospel on us.

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (v.6).
 
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ebedmelech

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We don't have to be wrong if we are humble. Don't believe that lie. We can read the Bible correctly.

Are you saying you are going to be speechless when you see construction on the 3rd Temple begin no later than 2020?

Are you going to revile Jesus speechlessly when He returns to reign in the 3rd Temple?

Are you speechless when you observed the signs in Rev. 6.12 2010-2015 before the Tribulation?

Are you going to accuse the brethren day and night speechlessly (Rev. 12.10) who are first raptured?

When Antichrist erects himself in the 3rd Temple will you embrace him speechlessly because you claim he doesn't exist and it can't happen? He says he is God.

Some food for thought!
Then eat that food! You're believing a false eschatology. All you do is show how you don't understand scripture...but you do understand what you've been taught...and there is a difference.
 
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crosssaved

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Then eat that food! You're believing a false eschatology. All you do is show how you don't understand scripture...but you do understand what you've been taught...and there is a difference.
I am not sure how you could have been more vague.

How do explain the temple in Rev. 11.2 when Revelation was written 95 AD?

Why would God fear you receive the gospel in 2 Cor. 4.4?

The temple in 2 Thess. 2.4 is the one that built before Jesus returns so how can it be happening now?

There is no way to make sense of your faith without doing violence to the text.
 
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ebedmelech

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I am not sure how you could have been more vague.
I'm not vague...it's your "escatalogical paradigm"...it won't allow you to see things objectively.
How do explain the temple in Rev. 11.2 when Revelation was written 95 AD?
Because that is a belief...it's not a fact! The internal evidence of Revelation proves it was not written in 95 AD. The temple is not the Jerusalem temple. It says measure the "temple of God". God's temple was no longer Jerusalem, it's the church.

*Explain how John, who was there when Jesus gave the Olivet discourse, did not mention one thing about the temple being destroyed in 70 AD.

*Explain why John says he was IN THE TRIBULATION in Revelation 1:9, but you ignore that.
Why would God fear you receive the gospel in 2 Cor. 4.4?
First understand what the passage is saying. You're using a pretext to a context.
The temple in 2 Thess. 2.4 is the one that built before Jesus returns so how can it be happening now?
No. Paul is the primary one that teaches the temple is the church so "the temple of God" he refers to is the church. The Jerusalem temple was Ichabod the minute Christ died. Did you forget the veil was ripped in half when Jesus died? The veil is what separated the Holy of Holies. Now...if you understood Hebrews, you would realize the Holy of Holies is now in Heaven. Hebrews 9:24, 25:
24 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.


These are passages that show your error.
There is no way to make sense of your faith without doing violence to the text.
Eschatology is not my faith. My faith is in the all sufficient atoning blood of Christ...that's how I am saved! Eschatology is the study of the last things. My faith is in the gospel...1 Cor 15:1-4.

I also have faith that Jesus will return! I don't agree with how you believe he will return...there's a difference.
 
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crosssaved

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The internal evidence of Revelation proves it was not written in 95 AD.
Revelation was Written 95-96 AD, and Jesus Prophesied the Destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD in Matthew 24.3.

14 EXTERNAL EVIDENCES
1.All the writers of the first three and a half centuries agreed John’s exile was at the latter part of the reign of Domitian, the last of 12 Caesars, therefore Revelation was written in 95 or 96 AD. No writer in the first three and a half centuries suggested any other date.
2.It would not make much sense John wrote Revelation before 70 AD when nobody could get their hands on it to be warned about these things to come while he was imprisoned for thirty years.
3.If it was applied strictly to Nero’s time Revelation has no spiritual value for us in the church age, events leading up to the return of Christ and the future beyond so it is not already fulfilled.
4.The Antichrist cannot be a Teitan (a "latin man") even though equaling 666, for the Antichrist was never called such by early Christian writers, and surely John living so close to Latin times would have said something. Irenaeus says, therefore, the Antichrist will arrive in some distant era beyond his own time.
5.Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp who himself was one of John’s pupils, so he was in a better position to know when he stated that the Antichrist would not be Teitan.
6.Tertullian said Domitian was cruel like Nero, but often ceased from his attempts at killing Christians. Banishment as with John was the more likely avenue, whereas Nero would just put you to death. So it is highly unlikely Nero banished John.
7.Clement of Alexandria speaks of a "tyrant" after whose death John returns from exile. John did not return from Patmos a few years after Nero's death (68 AD), for if he had then he wouldn't have written Revelation before but most likely after 70 AD. Since Domitian died 96 AD, that would be when John was released or thereabouts, writing down all that he saw and heard.
8.Eusebius in three passages states the banishment of John took place in reign of Domitian and that the time of John’s revelation was in the fourteenth year reign of Domitian (95 AD).
9.Victorinus of Petau, the earliest extant writer on the apocalypse, said John revealed his revelation when he was released from Patmos at 95 AD or thereabouts. He explained the words: "prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings" (Rev. 10.11).
10.Victorinus, martyred in 303 AD, said Domitian was the sixth king reigning during when the apocalypse was written, who was not the seventh or eighth king talked about in Revelations 17.11.
11.The first 5 Caesars who died horrific deaths, not by natural causes, were Julius Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero. Augustus died of natural causes, the Year of the Four Emperors were short-lived. Vespian and Titus died of natural causes. Then comes Domitian the twelfth Caesar. "Five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come" (18.10). "The beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" (17.11). "Is not" refers to Nero at the time of John's writing since Nero had already died so he is not the sixth ("one is"); but Nero will come again as the Antichrist, taking the body of the seventh (the seventh appears for only short while). Of all the names of Caesars only Nero's name adds up to 666.
12.Jerome from the 4th century-somewhat later-said that the revelation John received was written down at Patmos and was written in the fourteenth year of Domitian's reign (95 AD) and was the second Caesar who persecuted Christians, Nero obviously being the first. Whoever is the first to throw the first stone is considered to be the most evil. Nero was the epitome of evil.
13.This harmony was ruined by Epiphanius of Salamis in the late 4th century whose testimony is worthless plus it is incredible. He was careless and an inaccurate ancient writer. Jesus died at the age of 37 1/2 April 3, 33 AD (Julian)*. He actually wrote that John at the age of 90 was released into the reign of Claudius. Claudius was assassinated in 54 AD. If this is true and assuming Jesus ministered for three years then John would had to have been at least 66 years old (90-(54-30)) when called to be an Apostle in 30 AD and 34 years older than Jesus.
14.Many other authors are also in favor of the Domitian date, but the evidence presented above is substantial.

* Watchman Nee said Epiphaneus' erroneous view that John was 90 years old when released into the reign of Claudius would mean Jesus was 63 years old when called to be an Apostle. Nee assumed Jesus began his ministry in 27 AD at the age of 30 and rounded off His death on the cross at 30 AD which is a common practice. Gary R. Habermas does the same for ease of calculation, and he is the leading expert in the world on the death and crucifixion of Jesus. The 30 AD death on the cross date doesn't fit because that would be on a Wednesday, Nisan 14, 30 AD, leaving Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday (4 evenings in the tomb) and Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday (4 mornings in the Tomb). Jonah was only in the belly of a whale for 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus was captured into the belly of earthly Israel on Thursday so that constitutes 3 days and 3 nights perfectly. We are also told Jesus was resurrected not after the third day but on the third day which could only apply if Jesus died on Friday. And the other problem is why would the women wait till Sunday, 4 day later, to go see Jesus in the tomb to put spices on His body when they could have done so on either Thursday or Friday if the Wednesday crucifixion were true? The Roman Church gets many things wrong, but they at least properly acknowledged when Jesus died on the cross on Easter Good Friday.
 
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crosssaved

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20 INTERNAL EVIDENCES
1.The state of the seven churches in Revelation 2 & 3 would have required development over 20 or 30 years far beyond the 5 or 6 years allowed by the Neronic date and condition of the new churches in Paul’s time.
2.It is evident persecution was throughout Asia Minor at the time. There was at least one martyr in Pergamum, whereas in Nero’s time it does not extend beyond immediate neighborhood of Rome.
3.Smyrna was about to undergo the trial of her faith even to that of death, and there was the intense martyrdom during the Smyrna church period in the second century.
4.The Neronic persecution would not have produced a banishment of John, but capital punishment. We are told in Scripture John was banished not executed.
5."But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality" (Rev. 2.14). Ballamites had time to establish themselves in Pergamum.
6.Jezebel had not only risen to influence in Thyatira, but time for repentance had also been given to her (according to Rev. 2.20,21). "...I gave her time to repent...." (v.21).
7.Revelations is definitely a book of prophecy (see 1.3, 22.7,18,19) about end-times for us to be aware of and prepare for. A day with the Lord is like a thousand years, so only two days passed since Christ. "Shortly come to pass" simply means not to be delayed, yet we are just too neglectful and procrastinating about these things. Some are so impatient they change from the premillennial (earliest view was chiliast or dispensational) to the preterist, amillennialist or postmillennialist views then proudly claim Jesus won't return in the next 50 or even 100 years when He very well could. They will not be ready and likely were never saved. How is that being watchful? As long as this evil generation persists (Matt. 24.34) so will He be delayed. This is an application of the exponential progression of conscience because Jesus wants to return to improved conditions or at least some progress. These things "must occur" (v.6) not subject to any change, so there are things that will come to pass before He returns.
8.The Bible tells us Jesus will return for the sake of the elect, so while the world is about to destroy itself, the elect stand strong. That does not play well for the Preterists and Postmillennialists since they say things just keep getting better and better so no need for concern about a Great Tribulation or a coming Antichrist and his deception. Surely, they are already deceived by the people of the prince that is to come. I think these well off folks should come down from their high perch and spend some time in the slums of the world, overflowing prisons, and acclimate themselves with the countless evils this world has to offer to appreciate Satan is the god of this world. With thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other, I think they are taking this evil generation too lightly. After all don't they say Satan is in the pit right now? How can he be in the pit of he is still the god of this world? Does it really sound like Satan is in the pit right now with over 10,000 people dying per day due to starvation, over 50,000 dying per day unnecessarily and over 200,000,000 deaths due to war in the 20th century alone? Historicism is a view introduced by the Roman Church and the Calvinist Augustine to threaten their adherents with obedience to them or come under damnation.
9.The Rationalistic and Romanistic view of Preterism does not round out the concluding portion of God’s word concerning future events like Genesis does for us about beginnings. We are left empty handed about end-times if we follow after historicists.
10.Revelation is neither a book of allegorical history nor already fulfilled, for who can say in history when 1/3 of the people of the earth died (Rev. 9.18) in the last two trumpets or woes (after 5 months of the 1st woe, leaving 13 months of the 2nd woe and 24 months for the 3rd woe)? When did this occur around 70 AD? And when did it occur the 200 million fighting units congregated in the middle east (v.16) over oil?
11.Preterism, Partial Preterism, Postmillennial and Amillennial adherents will surely go to Hell according Rev. 22.18,19 and for their anti-Semitic beliefs of Systematic Replacement Theology. They reject the Jesus who will return to reign for 1000 years on earth with His overcomer believers. Is Jesus reigning with an iron rod right now? Of course not.
12.Are the nations no longer deceived (see Rev. 20.3)? Of course not. We still hear of wars and rumors of wars. Satan is the god of this world. Satan is only immobilized because Christians have died on the cross with Christ in the first Seal where we see the Rider on the white horse who has a bow without an arrow that was shot because Satan has been given a deadly wound. If your flesh, your old man, has died with Christ on the cross what can Satan do? He can not operate in dead flesh. Jesus brought us to sure death with Him on the cross. Yet Satan still freely roams 2nd heaven to continue to deceive the nations.
13.Are the overcomers, the first resurrection, reigning today (Rev. 20.4)? Absolutely not! Where are the the faithful in executive positions such as president, prime minister, governor, mayor and so forth as a David or Solomon? Will Jesus spare Preterists the rod of His wrath? Not unless I am a monkey's uncle.
14.Do you feel dejected because Jesus didn't return last year? Don't be. Jesus said to live as though He could return at any moment. This is the life that shall be rewarded. Do not invent another eschatology because of your impatience or failed predictions. Such souls are showing they were never born-again to begin with because they could not remain steadfast in the faith that they allegedly were in. It would have been better they had never known about Christ considering the pitiful state they are in now (2 Pet. 2.21).
15.Rationalistic schemes to take away this fearful book serving as one of the keenest of the swords of God’s Spirit have long since been defeated.
16.Who is the 8th in Revelation 17.10-11? The five Caesars have fallen (v.10). Domitian was the sixth. The seventh is a person who is to be the forerunner to the eighth (v.11), and the eighth is a living soul who is one of the five which is resurrected Nero, the Antichrist (v.11). Because he already died once and we are appointed once to do die, he can't be killed in the Tribulation. He is the first person who is thrown into Hell (v.11). We can't switch back and forth from persons to nations in the analysis of who these 8 figures are.
17.The world is not in a desperate situation to sell their goods to Israel in one interpretation by a historicist. The truth is though only United States or Europe qualify with the highest GDP in the world (a combined 30 trillion). The GDP of the EU is 16 trillion and the US 14 trillion (2009). Rome, the 7 hilled city, is the location of the Parliament of the European Union. As the US dollar collapses ship merchants will no longer be able to sell their goods to America which is self-evident even before the Tribulation. 'Political Rome' (Rev. 18) which is the European Union sets up 10 kings on the 7 hilled city. Rome will no longer be able to buy the goods of the world (v.11) because of the greatest war the world has ever seen. The Vatican and Rome will burn with fire (Rev. 17.16,18; 18.18). In the first half of the Tribulation religious Rome is destroyed (Rev. 17). In the 2nd half of the Tribulation political Rome is destroyed (Rev. 18). The Antichrist overtakes three of those horns and consolidates them: Greece, Italy and Spain have massive depbt/GDP ratios. US has 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities and its debt/GDP ratio is even worse. Spain, Italy and Greece make up just a small fraction of the overall EU GDP. If the horns are the financial elite then the seven horns (reduced from 10) would manage the implementation of the mark of the beast over the 7 regions (heads) of the world.
18.The prophecy Israel would become a nation has been fulfilled (Matt. 24.32-33). It is yet to be fulfilled Israel's land extends to the Euphrates River (Gen. 15.18) and their Messiah the Son of Man Jesus steps down on the mount of olives (Zech. 14.4). Preterists, Postmillennialists and Amillennialists don't apply very well all the verses that talk about Israel becoming a nation again shortly before the return of Christ. They prefer for Rome or some other location, I suppose, to be the center-certainly not Jerusalem-since they hold to replacement theology and anti-Semitic rhetoric.
19.There is a Temple on Earth when Jesus reigns in Person. He returns just as He left (Acts 1.11, Rev. 1.7). He does not return to only rapture us, but to reign with His overcomers (Jude 14,15; Rev. 20.4-6). The overcomers make up about 1/7th of those who are saved since Abel, typified by the Philadelphia church--one of the seven churches that had "overcometh" so all they needed to do was keep what they had. The millennial kingdom, time of recompense and peace when the nations are no longer deceived (v.3), is the transitionary period with Jesus' very presence in Person from the dispensation of grace to eternity future in the New City and New Earth.
20.What is meant by “measure” in Rev. 11.1 (cf. Num. 35.2,5; Ez. 45.1-3; 42.15,20; 48.8,12,15)? Measure means protection or a setting apart for God. How can those in an earthly temple be protected when the outer court is overrun and the Antichrist is reigning from the temple? Obviously that did not happen in 70 AD. In 70 AD who can say the Temple was measured while the court outside the Temple was not? "Do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months" (v.2). Yet not trample over the Temple in 70 AD? Clearly, therefore, Rev. 11.1 in the future is referring to the saints in Heaven and v.2 is referring to the EU over-running the nation of Israel but leaving the Temple intact.
 
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ebedmelech

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Revelation was Written 95-96 AD, and Jesus Prophesied the Destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD in Matthew 24.3.

The utter disregard of what the passage says leads me to not even read what you posted. The fact that you're believing what someone wrote without putting in the study.

Matthew 24:1-35 is primarily Jerusalem's destruction. To even try to argue it is not...is just disregard for scripture!

If you believe Watchman Nee, that's fine. Watchman Nee is a Christian but that's where I leave it. His teaching will be tested in light of scripture like everyone else by me. I believe he has it wrong. If you think he has it right, so be it for you. I've been where you are. I let scripture itself lead me to my eschatological view.

Revelation was written in 68 AD as I see it. John said at Revelation 1:9:
9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

John said he was IN THE TRIBULATION...so guess what? HE WAS IN THE TRIBULATION!
 
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crosssaved

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The utter disregard of what the passage says leads me to not even read what you posted. The fact that you're believing what someone wrote without putting in the study.

Matthew 24:1-35 is primarily Jerusalem's destruction. To even try to argue it is not...is just disregard for scripture!

If you believe Watchman Nee, that's fine. Watchman Nee is a Christian but that's where I leave it. His teaching will be tested in light of scripture like everyone else by me. I believe he has it wrong. If you think he has it right, so be it for you. I've been where you are. I let scripture itself lead me to my eschatological view.

Revelation was written in 68 AD as I see it. John said at Revelation 1:9:
9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

John said he was IN THE TRIBULATION...so guess what? HE WAS IN THE TRIBULATION!
You're going to shut your mind down to these 34 reasons why Revelation was written 95 AD and not before 70 AD?

The only verse in Matt. 24 about the destruction of the Temple 70 AD was verse 2: "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Matt. 24.4-31 are about the Jews in Israel.
Matt. 24.32-25.30 is about the Church.
Matt. 25.31-46 is about the nations.

A line by line study of each of these verses proves it.
The Gospel According to Matthew Chapters 24 and 25

Expand your horizons. Reserve judgment and read this deeply then decide. That will be you showing God you are searching Him out with all your heart and soul so you shall surely find Him.

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crosssaved

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IN THE TRIBULATION...so guess what? HE WAS IN THE TRIBULATION!

7.14 The phrase "the great tribulation" is not the Great Tribulation of three years and a half duration. The reasons are as follows.

(1) At the earliest, the Great Tribulation should commence at the sounding of the "woe" trumpets, the first of which is the fifth (8.13, 9.1a). Yet 7.9 is an intimation of a rapture having taken place before the seventh seal. Some of these people must have arrived at the throne without passing through the time of the "woe" trumpets.

(2) The Great Tribulation cannot begin before Satan is cast down to earth. Satan will be cast down at the sounding of the fifth trumpet (9.1); and before the horrible situation of the 42 months prevails on earth (13.5), the man child is already raptured to the throne (12.5). Though this man child may not include all the people referred to in 7.9, nonetheless we dare say that it embraces a part of that great multitude.

(3) As soon as the seventh bowl is poured, the kingdom arrives. During the kingdom age we do not see the temple in heaven, instead we see the temple on earth as described in Ezekiel. Who will have the time and opportunity to serve God during the Great Tribulation? Yet 7.15 clearly states that God’s servants serve Him day and night.

(4) There cannot be so many people saved at the Great Tribulation. Since the great multitude mentioned in 7.9 is said to have come out of the great tribulation (7.14), this great tribulation must be different from that which comes at the fifth and sixth trumpets.

(5) According to 11.1, there are those who worship in the temple of God in heaven. Aside from the people cited in 7.9, where can there be found any who worship God in heaven? For at that time the Great Tribulation as predicted in the book of Revelation has yet to begin. In the new heaven and the new earth, no temple is seen (21.22) because the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are the temple thereof. (God and the Lamb form the center of the new city. Following the mentioning of the temple of God in 3.12 are found the words "he shall go out thence no more", for the simple reason that God and the Lamb are the temple in the new heaven and the new earth.)

(6) The Bible expressly says that there are believers who do not pass through the Great Tribulation (for example, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10).

(7) Suppose these people mentioned in 7.9 did in fact pass through the Great Tribulation of three and a half years; then they must have died at the time when the temple is trodden underfoot by the nations. But according to what is given in 11.2 it is impossible to include the church therein. So how can it be held that the multitude cited in 7.9 comes out of the Great Tribulation of three and a half years?

(8) The Great Tribulation of three years and a half spoken of in Revelation is especially related to the Jews. Both Daniel 12.1—"And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered . . ."—and Matthew 24.16-18 depict particularly the situation of the Jewish people. God’s primary purpose is to make use of the Great Tribulation to deal with the Jews. "The time of Jacob’s trouble" spoken of in Jeremiah 30.7 manifestly points to the Jews. But in the book of Revelation reference is made to the subject of tribulation several times in connection with the church, such as in 1.9 and 2.9-10,13. According to John 16.33 tribulation seems to be the earthly portion of the church for she must pass through a prolonged duration of sufferings. Accordingly, this tribulation may also be described in the same way as Revelation 7.14 itself literally does in the Greek original, namely: "the tribulation the great". Nevertheless, the great tribulation cited in Revelation 2.22 is very different from that in 7.14, nor is it the same as that of the three and a half years mentioned elsewhere in Revelation. (The words "through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God" in Acts 14.22 has reference to the common experience those who enter the kingdom of God will share on earth.)
 
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ebedmelech

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Crosssaved, you're just not comprehending what you're posting. Do yourself a favor, and read and compare what you're posting against scripture.

My mind is not "closed" *except* when you're creating an "eschatalogical maze", which you are.

Revelation is John's version of the Olivet Discourse, only Jesus gives John more information. Matthew, Mark and Luke all included it in their gospels with Matthew giving the greatest details. However The Revelation provides the most complete details.

It's ok if you want to believe the things you're posting....but when will you study what you're posting and compare that to scripture?
 
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