Well, there's no end to the number of people who will try to tell us that "You can't do that!" Or those who say "Your version of Christianity is not valid."
Wouldn't really matter, if seeking Christ based on who He is and what he was about, as to the number of people saying things. People often go for the "Look at all the people saying this or that version of Christianity isn't valid" and yet rarely will they actually focus directly on what Christ said in the context he lived in.
Jack (if I understand correctly) was concerned that trying to stay orthodox, or meet the requirements of a particular group, was something that would stifle someone's spiritual growth. I think in most cases, it will.
When one assumes that being Orthodox (or in correct agreement with what Christ and the Apostles noted - the Church) is a matter of stifling spiritual growth, they actually go counter to what the Scriptures already noted when it comes to how growth was to occur. It's the dynamic of speaking on the subject of seeking Christ but ignoring what Christ spoke on and what he pointed to when it came to seeking Him. If not doing it the way he and the Apostles noted it, then in most cases one is doing it their way rather than God's.
Unless of course, we can open our minds and dream of the impossible! Christians throughout history have pushed beyond the limits, and formed new denominations while being labeled as heretics. Heck, Jesus suffered a similar problem with the religious leaders in his day!
There can be a BIG tendency to over-exaggerate the dynamic of considering differing realities (consistent with what Christ has said) and opening the mind - as if seeking to be Bereans (Acts 17 ) who examine everything in accordance with Scripture means that one automatically must assume they have to dream of impossible things. Over-simplifcation is never a good thing and not all people labeled "herectic" were automatically in the category of heroes wrongly accused for thinking outside the box. Be it claims of Christ being a symbol rather than fully God - or that Christ was openly for sexual immorality of no consequence due to the body not mattering and a host of other things.
Christians pushing "beyond limits" was never a matter of pushing past what Christ pointed to when he always pointed back to the Scriptures (John 5, John 7, Luke 24, etc.) - nor was it the case that all denominations were automatically good simply because they disagreed with whatever was different at the time. There were extensive deadly heresies that developed with people automatically assuming all things were "beneficial/a matter of pushing beyond the limits" because others never dealt with what Christ said the limits were to be. This is part of the battle found within the reality of the Protestant world with the extensive amount of differing denominations - many of which have actually gone counter to Jesus on many issues (be it Mormons or David Koresh's craziness), even as others have stayed faithful (more shared in
Major theological differences of Reformation & Evangelicalism? or
Church History)
Even when people claim the oft-repeated phrase of "Even Christ wasn't accepted by the religious leaders of his day!!", there can be a grave lack of understanding that even Christ agreed on NUMEROUS things with the religious establisbments of his day.He was a Jew living within a Jewish world - and He was never about being against those in authority since He already pointed to them (Matthew 23, Matthew 5, etc.) as those others should listen to. ...althou
gh whenever he did disagree, he pointed people back to the heart of God and always had a basis for it that others in the rabbinical world had already noted. ...but whenever there's an over-simplification on how things went, we end up
assuming things of Christ that simply were not there.
For reference:
Jesus was always one to speak within the context of the times/culture he lived in. And this is something that should not be surprising. Christ was not disconnected - and for historical reference, Jesus technically had a priestly connection (as did his cousin John the Baptist) due to how their mothers were within the line of Aaron (as
I noted long ago in the thread entitled
What tribe was Mary- Levite or Judah? )- thus giving them room to show the concept of the New Priesthood developing for all since Jesus was truly both Prophet, Priest and King - even though the reality of the matter is that he did not come in the Line of Aaron (as Hebrews 5-10 note with regards to the priesthood of Melchizeldek) since he was identified through the Line of Judah by his father Joseph - and Christ was still respectful of the priesthood even as the Chief Priest did not know nor respect him. This can easily be seen in why they had significant issue with him when he turned over tables in John 2 - as well as the division that came from him and many not knowing where Christ even came from in John 7 - and on the issue, more was discussed in thread such as
Priests (
#72 ) and
Is the Court of the Gentiles a bad place to be?
If "it's a relationship, not a religion" is a "doctrine" that means I'm allowed to forgo religious requirements in favor of spirituality... Then do please excuse me while I continue to walk my path despite your protests.
Anyone can walk whatever path they wish. Nonetheless, the concept of "it's a relationship, not a religion" isn't something that Christ advocated when speaking within the religious world he lived in - nor is it something the disciples themselves spoke of either.
As James 1:26-27 notes"
James 1:22-27
New International Version (NIV)
22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in itnot forgetting what they have heard, but doing itthey will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Also, for another..
1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their
religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.
1 Timothy 5:3-5
There is the reality that certain forms of religion were beautiful to the Lord...one that loved justice and mercy and kept oneself from spiritual compromise with worldliness.
There are other scriptures noting the reality of how false religion is worthless--especially when doing all of the outer aspects of what the Lord requires and yet completely missing the Spirit, such as when the Lord rebuked his people for doing as he commanded with sacrifices/temple worship and yet they couldn't care less for the Lord since they tolerated idolatry and injustice in the land...and to them, it was all good (
Jeremiah 7:1-3/
Jeremiah 7 , etc ).
The book of Amos is rather blunt on that issue, if seeing how much the Lord spoke through that prophet to declare how he was tired of buisness as usual/making a mockery of the religion he instituted:
Amos 5:21
I hate, I despise your
religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me. 22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.
24
But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!
Amos 5:20-22
Amos 8:10
Hear this, you who trample the needy
and do away with the poor of the land,
5 saying,
When will the New Moon be over
that we may sell grain,
and the Sabbath be ended
that we may market wheat?
skimping on the measure,
boosting the price
and cheating with dishonest scales,
6 buying the poor with silver
and the needy for a pair of sandals,
selling even the sweepings with the wheat.
7 The LORD has sworn by himself, the Pride of Jacob: I will never forget anything they have done.
8 Will not the land tremble for this,
and all who live in it mourn?
The whole land will rise like the Nile;
it will be stirred up and then sink
like the river of Egypt. 9 In that day, declares the Sovereign LORD,
I will turn your
religious festivals into mourning and all your singing into weeping. I will make all of you wear sackcloth and shave your heads. I will make that time like mourning for an only son and the end of it like a bitter day.
Amos 8:9-11
Also, with religion, there's no escaping ( as Paul noted in
Acts 26:4-6 /
Acts 26,
Hebrews 10:10-12 /
Hebrews 10 ) that Christianity was connected to it. And not all forms of religion were bad
Why I Love Religion, And Love Jesus || Spoken Word - YouTube
Talking on how "it's relationship, not religion" would be akin to saying "it's about peace with each other, not seeking to avoid strife/work together"