Joint Chief, Admiral Thomas Moorer: USS Liberty Was "Act of War" by Israel Againt US

[ManFromUncle]

The continued drum-beating against Israel because of the accidental attack on the USS Liberty is nothing more than an effort to discredit the U.S. foreign policy of continuing to support Israel. If Israel knowingly attacked and killed Americans, the views of radical critics of the country are confirmed with graphic clarity. These views include: a) the belief that Israel will turn against the U.S. whenever it suits its interests; b) the belief that Israel's control over the American political and military structure is so great that it can openly kill Americans because it knows that officials at every level will work together to cover up the crime; and c) the belief that Israel is a terrorist state.

It's garbage. In 1999, moreover, a National Security Agency report from 1981 was released claiming that "the tragedy resulted not only from Israeli miscalculation but also from faulty U.S. communications practices." Since July 2003, this report has been available on the NSA Web site accompanied by a recording of radio communications between Israeli pilots made by a U.S. spy plane on the scene throughout the episode.

The NSA report and other documents declassified since the incident - including a trove of government materials released in January 2004 - support findings that the bombing was a case of mistaken identity. Some of the different investigations and their conclusions are listed below.

If you want to continue hating Israel, fine. But stop lying about the USS Liberty.

Why are you relying on the NSA report? A man who survived the attack and who was there on that day is right here, and has given his full name and position. Furthermore you are calling this survivor, behind your guise of anonymity, a liar. I apologize to Mr. Meadors on behalf of Christian Forums for your foul manners.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Why are you relying on the NSA report?

Because, unlike you -- obviously someone who has never served this nation in any capacity -- I understand the risks of combat and that mistakes happen. The day before the accidental attack on USS Liberty, the Israelis hit one of their own armored columns in the Sinai by accident. These things happen. "Friendly fire" is a well-known occurrence in times of combat.

A man who survived the attack and who was there on that day is right here, and has given his full name and position. Furthermore you are calling this survivor a liar.

You're putting words in my mouth. I haven't called anyone anything. I couldn't say about anyone "right here." I do know that James Ennes lied in his book, and if Meadors is telling the same story as Ennes, then he's a liar, too. Ennes claimed Israel wanted to keep the Liberty from telling U.S. intelligence that Israel planned a "secret attack" on Syria. Israeli officials had already informed the U.S. of the pending attack, so it wasn't "secret" at all. I don't know what the personal agendas of Ennes and anyone else who claims it is all a giant conspiracy might be. I do know they're at best "mistaken," and perhaps more than that.

 

[ManFromUncle]

Because, unlike you -- obviously someone who has never served this nation in any capacity -- I understand the risks of combat and that mistakes happen. The day before the accidental attack on USS Liberty, the Israelis hit one of their own armored columns in the Sinai by accident. These things happen. "Friendly fire" is a well-known occurrence in times of combat.You're putting words in my mouth. I haven't called anyone anything. I couldn't say about anyone "right here." I do know that James Ennes lied in his book, and if Meadors is telling the same story as Ennes, then he's a liar, too. Ennes claimed Israel wanted to keep the Liberty from telling U.S. intelligence that Israel planned a "secret attack" on Syria. Israeli officials had already informed the U.S. of the pending attack, so it wasn't "secret" at all. I don't know what the personal agendas of Ennes and anyone else who claims it is all a giant conspiracy might be. I do know they're at best "mistaken," and perhaps more than that.

Mr. Meadors has said nothing about why Israel deliberately attacked the USS Liberty. Only that it was beyond doubt deliberate, which is the view of every other survivor of the attack. 34 sailors cannot give an opinion because they were murdered by Israel. You owe him an apology.

 

[DebarkTango]

The continued drum-beating against Israel because of the accidental attack on the USS Liberty is nothing more than an effort to discredit the U.S. foreign policy of continuing to support Israel.

In point of fact, our outrage is not directed at Israel although they DID commit war crimes during the attack on our ship but at the US government for allowing them to be committed with impunity and without remorse.

stop lying about the USS Liberty.

Please do.

The 1981 NSA report was just that -- a report. Not the result of an investigation of the attack merely the conjecture of the author of the report.

The recording of the radio communications available at the NSA website have nothing to do with the attack. They are between IDF helicopter pilots and their headquarters as the helos approached the Liberty after the firing portion of the attack was complete and do not provide any evidence regarding the intent of the forces who attacked us.

I would hardly call the documents posted on the NSA website to be "a trove of government materials." Indeed, none of them is a report based upon an investigation of the attack on our ship. You may notice that one of the documents tells us that one of the NSA stations has voice tapes. For some reason the NSA doesn't feel it appropriate to release those voice tapes.

As for "the different investigations" that I assume you are going to refer to, none of them are as a result of an investigation of the attack on our ship so any conclusions contained in the reports that address the intention or actions of the attackers is without foundation since the US government has NEVER conducted an investigation of the attack on our ship.

That said, I do hope you will follow your own advice and "stop lying about the USS Liberty."

Respectfully,

Joe Meadors
USS Liberty Survivor
Director of Operations, USS Liberty Veterans Association
Email: joeATusslibertyDOTcom

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Joe:

I''m going to start this off by apologizing to you for calling you a liar. I don't believe that for an instant. It was a rash and uncalled-for assessment. But as you will see from this reply, I don't agree with your assessment of Liberty. I'm sorry.

In point of fact, our outrage is not directed at Israel although they DID commit war crimes during the attack on our ship but at the US government for allowing them to be committed with impunity and without remorse.

Since it wasn't a deliberate attack but an accident as happens in war, your "outrage" is unfortunately ill-conceived.

Please do.

I haven't. The 1981 NSA report was supported by literally hundreds of documents declassified and placed on the NSA website in 2004. Bias prevents you from seeing the evidence before you. I can't help you with that.

As for "the different investigations" that I assume you are going to refer to, none of them are as a result of an investigation of the attack on our ship so any conclusions contained in the reports that address the intention or actions of the attackers is without foundation since the US government has NEVER conducted an investigation of the attack on our ship.

That's a rather misleading statement to make. You will of course dismiss out of hand the thirteen investigations that have been conducted into the Liberty incident, but that's understandable as a member of the ship's crew, even though it is also extreme head-in-the-sand bias. Cristol's own investigation -- and it was just that, by a qualified legal investigator with literally thousands of hours experience as a Navy JAG -- reached the same conclusion as NSA.

Forgive me, Joe, but I'll take the word of an experienced investigator. I know for a fact from first-hand experience that you can have a half-dozen combat reports filed regarding the same incident and get a half-dozen widely varying versions. Eyewitnesses such as yourself, to an accidental attack, particularly when they are at ground zero of that attack, are not going to be able to accurately discern the intent of the ones firing at them. Your training and instinct told you one thing: Defend yourself. So you did.

That doesn't mean you understood the course of events leading up to the assault on the Liberty, and in fact, I don't believe you are capable of doing so. The U.S. and Israel are certainly to blame -- but not for collusion after the fact. Poor communications, grave judgmental and procedural errors and an unfortunate case of mistaken identity on the part of Israel is at the center of it all. The only reason you don't agree is because Cristol and the other thirteen investigations confirm the NSA's conclusions, which you don't like. I'm sorry.

That said, I do hope you will follow your own advice and "stop lying about the USS Liberty."

As a fellow combat veteran, I respect your right to believe what you think happened. But as that same combat veteran, I know your perceptions are certainly colored by the incidents of 8 JUN 67 and don't expect you to be able to rationally or accurately analyze the event. God bless, Joe. Fair winds and following seas. May you find peace.

 

[Michael]

That doesn't mean you understood the course of events leading up to the assault on the Liberty, and in fact, I don't believe you are capable of doing so.

Do you? Are you?

Israel?s Attack on USS Liberty ? The Full Story | Veterans Today

There's typically more than one side to every story. I wouldn't put anything past Zionists. I'll grant you that it's "easier" to believe it was an accident, but somehow we're to believe that those targeting radar incidents *prior* to the attack, and those multiple flyovers prior to the attack were all purely "on accident" as well? Something sure doesn't add up when you look at the series of events leading up to the incident, including all the flyovers that were done *prior* to the attack.

I'll be watching al-Jazerra on Friday night.

FYI, thanks Joe for your participation in this thread and for your service to our country.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

I wouldn't put anything past Zionists.

This right here tells me more than I need to know about you. Or wanted to know, for that matter. You probably see "a Zionist" under every rock.

I'll be watching al-Jazerra on Friday night.

Yeah, that's certain to be a very unbiased account!

I'll leave you to your delusion. I'd urge you to stop badgering a true American hero into supporting your efforts to undermine the U.S. government's relationship with our greatest ally in the Mideast. People make mistakes, countries make mistakes. That doesn't mean there's a conspiracy behind it all.

Joe, if you're still reading this thread, first, I'd ask you why? Secondly, if you ask me why that question, I'd point out to you that Michael is an anti-Semite as evidenced by his multiple anti-Israel, anti-Jewish posts. He will tell you he isn't anti-Semetic but just questioning our relationship with Israel. I would urge you to check out his numerous posts and threads and see for yourself. It is it worth your reputation and that of your organization to be associated online with this person? I'll leave that answer to you.

 

[Michael]

This right here tells me more than I need to know about you.

I'm fine with that had you actually been honest about what I've said. Alas, you weren't honest about what I said as I'll demonstrate:

Or wanted to know, for that matter. You probably see "a Zionist" under every rock.

Yeah, that's certain to be a very unbiased account!

Did you bother to read that link, and/or watch the accounts of the people that were there, or did you simply ignored it all?

I'll leave you to your delusion.

Speaking of delusions, you have more than a few of your own.

I'd urge you to stop badgering a true American hero into supporting your efforts to undermine the U.S. government's relationship with our greatest ally in the Mideast.

Israel under Netanyahu isn't anyone's ally. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. That's in contrast to Rabin who was in fact an honest man, and willing to negotiate for peace. Unfortunately he was also killed by a *Zionist*.

People make mistakes, countries make mistakes. That doesn't mean there's a conspiracy behind it all.

Apparently you didn't bother to watch that video. Pity.

Joe, if you're still reading this thread, first, I'd ask you why?

I'm sure he knows why as that website explained, and as the movie also explained.

Secondly, if you ask me why that question, I'd point out to you that Michael is an anti-Semite as evidenced by his multiple anti-Israel, anti-Jewish posts.

Now you stoop to simply bearing false witness against me? I've explained to you *repeatedly* that I am an *anti-Zionist*, and Palestinians are also a "Semitic" people. I've explained to you that I have and I will continue to support *Israel's right to exist*, as well as *Palestine's* right to exist. It's the latter issue and point that you can't handle, so you accuse me of something that simply isn't true. How pitiful of a debate tactic. You simply see Antisemitism behind ever corner, and you refuse to acknowledge the difference between *anti-Zionism* and an *antisemitism*.

He will tell you he isn't anti-Semetic but just questioning our relationship with Israel.

Yep. And Hamas and everyone else we support that has no desire for compromise or peace.

I would urge you to check out his numerous posts and threads and see for yourself. It is it worth your reputation and that of your organization to be associated online with this person? I'll leave that answer to you.

Please do. I think you'll find that my stance toward Israel is both sound and rational. I support the right for *both* sides to exist, whereas Zionists and Hamas refuse to accept the others right to exist. You'll also find that TBOH is simply ignorant of the difference between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, starting with the fact that Palestinians are also a *Semitic* people. In his arrogance he simply ignores that point, just like Zionists ignore that point.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

I'm fine with that had you actually been honest about what I've said. Alas, you weren't honest about what I said as I'll demonstrate:

Doubtful, as I will demonstrate.

Did you bother to read that link, and/or watch the accounts of the people that were there, or did you simply ignored it all?

I don't need to, in order to know quite well from past "news stories" on al-Jezeera, that it is nothing more than a propaganda arm of radical Islam.

Speaking of delusions, you have more than a few of your own.

And you can "demonstrate" that how ... ?

Israel under Netanyahu isn't anyone's ally. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. That's in contrast to Rabin who was in fact an honest man, and willing to negotiate for peace. Unfortunately he was also killed by a *Zionist*.

Your opinion. Your biased opinion that refuses to take into account Israel's right to exist. And Rabin was an idiot for thinking he could reach a compromise with nations and movements that openly speak of the total destruction and annihilation of Israel.

Apparently you didn't bother to watch that video. Pity.

See above comment regarding al-Jezeera.

I'm sure he knows why as that website explained, and as the movie also explained.

See above comment regarding al-Jezeera.

Now you stoop to simply bearing false witness against me? I've explained to you *repeatedly* that I am an *anti-Zionist*, and Palestinians are also a "Semitic" people. I've explained to you that I have and I will continue to support *Israel's right to exist*, as well as *Palestine's* right to exist. It's the latter issue and point that you can't handle, so you accuse me of something that simply isn't true. How pitiful of a debate tactic. You simply see Antisemitism behind ever corner, and you refuse to acknowledge the difference between *anti-Zionism* and an *antisemitism*.

That would be a well-ordered and probably deserved diatribe if not for the evidence of your anti-Semetism throughout this board, and this forum and others as well.

Yep. And Hamas and everyone else we support that has no desire for compromise or peace.

"We" don't support Hamas. Our current administration does, thus exposing their naïveté or stupidity, one or the other.

Please do. I think you'll find that my stance toward Israel is both sound and rational.

If your posts throughout this board are what you consider "sound and rational" I have to question your definition. There is nothing "sound and rational" about supporting a two-state solution when the immediate legitimacy of the Palestinian state will be to encourage radical Islam to attempt to attack and destroy Israel. Anyone who cannot see that is willfully deluded or actively supporting the common enemies of Israel and the U.S.

 

[Michael]

I don't need to, in order to know quite well from past "news stories" on al-Jezeera, that it is nothing more than a propaganda arm of radical Islam.

Oh for crying out loud, that link and that video with interviews from many US Naval officers had *nothing* to do with Al-Jezeera in the first place! You're just making things up as you go apparently.

Your opinion. Your biased opinion that refuses to take into account Israel's right to exist.

Absolutely and completely false. I have and do accept Israel's right to exist. in fact I've supported them with my tax dollars for my entire adult life. I also accept Palestine's right to exist. It's the later issue that you can't handle.

And Rabin was an idiot for thinking he could reach a compromise with nations and movements that openly speak of the total destruction and annihilation of Israel.

How are the Zionists any different? They openly speak of the total destruction and annihilation of Palestine. It's six of one, half dozen of the other. Only Abbas seems to be acting rationally. Rabin was apparently antisemitic in your mind as well for supporting a Palestinian state as the UN also insists?

See above comment regarding al-Jezeera.

What in the world of your talking about? What does that link or that video have to do with Al-Jezeera? You're ignoring history and blaming it on nonsense.

Now you stoop to simply bearing false witness against me? I've explained to you *repeatedly* that I am an *anti-Zionist*, and Palestinians are also a "Semitic" people. I've explained to you that I have and I will continue to support *Israel's right to exist*, as well as *Palestine's* right to exist. It's the latter issue and point that you can't handle, so you accuse me of something that simply isn't true. How pitiful of a debate tactic. You simply see Antisemitism behind ever corner, and you refuse to acknowledge the difference between *anti-Zionism* and an *antisemitism*.

That would be a well-ordered and probably deserved diatribe if not for the evidence of your anti-Semetism throughout this board, and this forum and others as well.

Demonstrate that statement with a real quote from me or retract it. You're blaming me for being antisemitic simply for supporting both Palestine *and* Israel as the UN also supports. The whole world (other than Zionists) are somehow antisemitic for supporting the creation of a Palestinian state?

"We" don't support Hamas. Our current administration does, thus exposing their naïveté or stupidity, one or the other.

Their naivate also applies to the support of Zionists and Zionism. It's simply the Jewish version of Hamas.

If your posts throughout this board are what you consider "sound and rational" I have to question your definition. There is nothing "sound and rational" about supporting a two-state solution when the immediate legitimacy of the Palestinian state will be to encourage radical Islam to attempt to attack and destroy Israel.

Boloney. Abbas has not attempt to attack or destroy Israel. You're *oversimplifying the problems*!

Anyone who cannot see that is willfully deluded or actively supporting the common enemies of Israel and the U.S.

Translation: "Anyone that disagrees with me personally I will label and antisemite, whether it applies or not.

Unbelievable. You can't even admit that there a difference between Judaism and Zionism!

 

[Michael]

FYI TBOH... If you want to see what an antisemitic person looks like and acts like, just look in the mirror. Whereas I support *all* Semitic people's right to exist and to live in their area of origin, you play favorites based strictly upon their religious affiliations. That makes you guilty of antisemitism.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

If Israel knowingly attacked and killed Americans, the views of radical critics of the country are confirmed with graphic clarity. These views include: a) the belief that Israel will turn against the U.S. whenever it suits its interests;

The USS Liberty is hardly the only example of that. Johnathan Pollard?

 

[Michael]

The USS Liberty is hardly the only example of that. Johnathan Pollard?

U.S. Furious With Israel After Sale of Advanced Military Technology to China | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com

There are *plenty* of examples of Zionist's acting *against* US interests.