If Protestantism is true, why they are not united? (2)

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

All that to say, Bottom line ~ the new man is those who do not love the present age

2 Timothy 4:10
10 For Demas has abandoned me, having loved the present age, and has gone to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia; Titus to Dalmatia.
16 At my first defense no one was with me to support me, but all abandoned me. May it not be counted against them.

We cannot attain a unity of any kind if we do NOT realize the “hope of our calling”. That includes catholics.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I suppose everyone notices the references to the “hope of your calling”. I point out the reference of Ephesians 1:18.

2 Peter 1:12...be established in the.... present ….truth.
That verse is very important to consider. Over time God has dealt with man in different ways as He so chooses for His Divine purpose.

Rom 10:16-17 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord..... who hath believed our report?..... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As new messages come from God there are those that choose not to believe even though they claim to be Godly people. They ignore the message and continue with the status quo. Jeremiah was given a new revelation from God and that message was delivered. Here is how that message was treated:
Jer 36:23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
There is a Jehudi around every corner in Christendom today. Has been that way since the days of Adam and Eve.
There is only a small inner circle that believes the Truth for today and accept God at His Word.


The fact is that there are 3 churches/ekklesias mentioned in the Bible that are IN CHRIST.
Eph 3:15 Of whom ...EVERY.... family in heaven and earth is named,

There is more than one sphere of blessings in God's plan...one for each of the three named churches.
The first church is Israel:
Matt 15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 16:18....upon this rock I will build my... ISRAEL;

Their hope is the land of Canaan. "The meek shall inherit the earth"..the land of Canaan. That is ...the hope.... of Israel (Acts 28:20)

The second church is the church of the firstborn:

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven
The hope of that calling will be to inherit the New Jerusalem descending DOWN from heaven as seen in Revelation. They are listed in Hebrews chapter 11 and will include the martyrs/overcomers of Revelation. They will live and reign with Christ for a 1,000 years of His total reign as a reward for service. They have a ..BETTER... country (Hebrew 11:16) and a ...BETTER ...resurrection (Hebrews 11:35)....a BETTER hope (7:19)

Clarification before I proceed to the third calling and hope associated with that calling.

The NT and OT divisions are uninspired and are not in the original manuscripts. Malachi left off with Israel in view and Matthew picks up the narrative at the birth of their Messiah in the Person of Jesus Christ. Israel was the focus of the Lord's earthly ministry (Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, Hebrews 1:2). Israel was also the main focus of the Acts period (Acts 1:6 and 28:20). The good olive tree and the wild olive tree showed the Gentiles at a disadvantage. The epistles associated with the Acts period were also focusing on Israel.
The first two callings are located under the temporary Heaven that was spread forth as a tent called the firmament. The third calling is not under this temporary heaven and has yet to be revealed until AD 63.

Acts 28 is very important. Please take it to heart. There was a great rent in that chapter. Israel now had their last call to accept Jesus as Messiah but they did not and Israel was set aside as favored nation at that point in time. Paul, being the apostle to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1), was then given a new revelation concerning a new group/church/company/ekklesia of redeemed bound for a different and higher hope. This calling was never before revealed in any way, shape or form. It was hid IN God (Ephesians 3:9) and never revealed to anyone (Ephesians 3:5) before that point in time in 63AD. The olive tree was hewn to the roots at Acts 28 and Israel was temporarily set aside as prophesied in Hosea 1:9.

This revelation was for the church which is...HIS...body (Ephesians 1:22,23) and ….the hope …..of the calling today is to the Heaven far above all where Christ sits at the right hand of God (Colossians 3:1-4). This calling is the only one that pierces the temporary heavens to the throne of God back to the Heaven of Gensis 1:1. It is the only one associated with His fulness.
This new calling, that numbered Israel among the nations and being on the same plane as Israel, was rejected by all in Asia (2Tim 1:15). They forsook Paul and did not believe the latest report from God.

This new company of redeemed is called the One NEW Man and is not associated with the olive tree as seen in Romans nor is it asscociated with Israel and the Levitical priesthood. This calling is the only calling that was known BEFORE the (katabole/overthrow) of the world (Genesis gap destruction). Those in the earthly sphere are FROM and SINCE the foundation of the world.

You must have missed this responce.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

It is far worse than a taunt to tell church members it is a mortal sin to miss mass when mass is a catholic concoction. It is not less than spiritual terrorism.

Spiritual terrorism. Although some people might mean well when talking about church attendance and the Lords supper, I agree that it can be like a spiritual terrorism. Here we are, sinners trying our best to obey the Lord, we are weak and need to see victory over our sins and these people add more to our yoke than we can bear. It can seem to terrify us. I think that fellowship isn't about the law, its not about going to hell or committing a deadly sin and that is the wrong way to see it. Fellowship is about being edified and strengthened, it can help us in our struggles. To think otherwise seems legalistic to me.

 

[Standing Up]

No, that would amount to heresy, but apostasy requires a real renunciation of the faith.

That begs the question; define "the faith"?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Spiritual terrorism. Although some people might mean well when talking about church attendance and the Lords supper, I agree that it can be like a spiritual terrorism. Here we are, sinners trying our best to obey the Lord, we are weak and need to see victory over our sins and these people add more to our yoke than we can bear. It can seem to terrify us. I think that fellowship isn't about the law, its not about going to hell or committing a deadly sin and that is the wrong way to see it. Fellowship is about being edified and strengthened, it can help us in our struggles. To think otherwise seems legalistic to me.

Gee! Saint Paul was a legalist eh?

Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise. Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good. Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer. For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us. Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destroy those who oppose God! (Hebrews 10:23-27 GNB)​

 

[By Faith Alone]

You must have missed this responce.

I don't believe it. I know you can read better than that.

Three different corporate bodies of believers whose hopes are in different spheres of blessings, and you come up with that?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

That begs the question; define "the faith"?

Yes, it does, I agree.

1 Tim 4:4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
6 If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.

1 Tim 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Gee! Saint Paul was a legalist eh?

Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise. Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good. Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer. For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us. Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destroy those who oppose God! (Hebrews 10:23-27 GNB)​

Hebrews. Types and shadows. Just as the Galatians were doing. Going back to the weak and beggardly elements of the law that brought them to faith.

The sin that was spoken of in Hebrews was the evil heart of UNBELIEF. a SPECIFIC sin. The wilderness wandering will give you that. It was the MAJORITY belief that led to wilderness wandering. I do not care how much you twist that passage, it does NOT apply.

Heb 3:8-12
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you.... an evil heart of unbelief...in departing from the living God.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't believe it. I know you can read better than that.

Three different corporate bodies of believers whose hopes are in different spheres of blessings, and you come up with that?

That is all that matters unless you happen to be law based which would then put a person into the category of recieving the earthly inheritance meant for Israel instead of the heavenly inheritance that is for those belonging to Christ.

Originally Posted by ~Cassia~ View Post
All that to say, Bottom line ~ the new man is those who do not love the present age

2 Timothy 4:10
10 For Demas has abandoned me, having loved the present age, and has gone to Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia; Titus to Dalmatia.
16 At my first defense no one was with me to support me, but all abandoned me. May it not be counted against them.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Gee! Saint Paul was a legalist eh?

Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise. Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good. Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer. For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us. Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destroy those who oppose God! (Hebrews 10:23-27 GNB)​

Paul is not terrorizing people with deadly warnings that failure to attend church is a deadly sin in that message, he is instead saying exactly what I was talking about, he's saying that we should come together in order to help one another. This is not a command to abstain from a deadly sin, its more of an loving exhortation. Paul is saying that we should encourage each other to not sin, he not saying that failure to attend Church on Sunday is a sin in itself.

 

[By Faith Alone]

That is all that matters unless you happen to be law based which would then put a person into the category of recieving the earthly inheritance meant for Israel instead of the heavenly inheritance that is for those belonging to Christ.

Wait a minute. ALL are IN CHRIST in that post. Three different families of believers.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It is far worse than a taunt to tell church members it is a mortal sin to miss mass when mass is a catholic concoction. It is not less than spiritual terrorism wrought by a lie. I have asked many time before about the post 200 on page 20 on this thread. I have never received a response from anyone except LLOJ and he said "Good question" when I asked what church someone was talking about.

You, and many others, know that post is there. No one has even offered to chip at it. It is as solid as a Rock and hammering would only produce noise. I don't even need safety glasses.

I don't even see a question on post 200 on page 20.

There is only one Church, the universal church of Jesus.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Wait a minute. ALL are IN CHRIST in that post. Three different families of believers.

No they are not and your wording below seems to clarify this very well

Acts 28 is very important. Please take it to heart. There was a great rent in that chapter. Israel now had their last call to accept Jesus as Messiah but they did not and Israel was set aside as favored nation at that point in time. Paul, being the apostle to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1), was then given a new revelation concerning a new group/church/company/ekklesia of redeemed bound for a different and higher hope. This calling was never before revealed in any way, shape or form. It was hid IN God (Ephesians 3:9) and never revealed to anyone (Ephesians 3:5) before that point in time in 63AD. The olive tree was hewn to the roots at Acts 28 and Israel was temporarily set aside as prophesied in Hosea 1:9.

This revelation was for the church which is...HIS...body (Ephesians 1:22,23) and ….the hope …..of the calling today is to the Heaven far above all where Christ sits at the right hand of God (Colossians 3:1-4). This calling is the only one that pierces the temporary heavens to the throne of God back to the Heaven of Gensis 1:1. It is the only one associated with His fulness.
This new calling, that numbered Israel among the nations and being on the same plane as Israel, was rejected by all in Asia (2Tim 1:15). They forsook Paul and did not believe the latest report from God.

You'll have to come up with a better post than your fabulously acclaimed post #200 to have anyone believe otherwise imo

 

[By Faith Alone]

You must have missed this responce.

BTW. I do appreciate the response and sorry I missed it. Sometimes I have to take a break to clean my nose-print off the monitor.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Paul is not terrorizing people with deadly warnings that failure to attend church is a deadly sin in that message, he is instead saying exactly what I was talking about, he's saying that we should come together in order to help one another. This is not a command to abstain from a deadly sin, its more of an loving exhortation. Paul is saying that we should encourage each other to not sin, he not saying that failure to attend Church on Sunday is a sin in itself.

You think not? So how do you read verses 25-27? Isn't that a dyer warning?

Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise. Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good. Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer. For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us. Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destroy those who oppose God! (Hebrews 10:23-27 GNB)​

 

[MoreCoffee]

The quote below doesn't address anything in Hebrews 10:23-27. It is irrelevant.

We cannot attain a unity of any kind if we do NOT realize the “hope of our calling”. That includes catholics.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I suppose everyone notices the references to the “hope of your calling”. I point out the reference of Ephesians 1:18.

2 Peter 1:12...be established in the.... present ….truth.
That verse is very important to consider. Over time God has dealt with man in different ways as He so chooses for His Divine purpose.

Rom 10:16-17 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord..... who hath believed our report?..... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As new messages come from God there are those that choose not to believe even though they claim to be Godly people. They ignore the message and continue with the status quo. Jeremiah was given a new revelation from God and that message was delivered. Here is how that message was treated:
Jer 36:23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
There is a Jehudi around every corner in Christendom today. Has been that way since the days of Adam and Eve.
There is only a small inner circle that believes the Truth for today and accept God at His Word.


The fact is that there are 3 churches/ekklesias mentioned in the Bible that are IN CHRIST.
Eph 3:15 Of whom ...EVERY.... family in heaven and earth is named,

There is more than one sphere of blessings in God's plan...one for each of the three named churches.
The first church is Israel:
Matt 15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 16:18....upon this rock I will build my... ISRAEL;

Their hope is the land of Canaan. "The meek shall inherit the earth"..the land of Canaan. That is ...the hope.... of Israel (Acts 28:20)

The second church is the church of the firstborn:

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven
The hope of that calling will be to inherit the New Jerusalem descending DOWN from heaven as seen in Revelation. They are listed in Hebrews chapter 11 and will include the martyrs/overcomers of Revelation. They will live and reign with Christ for a 1,000 years of His total reign as a reward for service. They have a ..BETTER... country (Hebrew 11:16) and a ...BETTER ...resurrection (Hebrews 11:35)....a BETTER hope (7:19)

Clarification before I proceed to the third calling and hope associated with that calling.

The NT and OT divisions are uninspired and are not in the original manuscripts. Malachi left off with Israel in view and Matthew picks up the narrative at the birth of their Messiah in the Person of Jesus Christ. Israel was the focus of the Lord's earthly ministry (Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, Hebrews 1:2). Israel was also the main focus of the Acts period (Acts 1:6 and 28:20). The good olive tree and the wild olive tree showed the Gentiles at a disadvantage. The epistles associated with the Acts period were also focusing on Israel.
The first two callings are located under the temporary Heaven that was spread forth as a tent called the firmament. The third calling is not under this temporary heaven and has yet to be revealed until AD 63.

Acts 28 is very important. Please take it to heart. There was a great rent in that chapter. Israel now had their last call to accept Jesus as Messiah but they did not and Israel was set aside as favored nation at that point in time. Paul, being the apostle to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1), was then given a new revelation concerning a new group/church/company/ekklesia of redeemed bound for a different and higher hope. This calling was never before revealed in any way, shape or form. It was hid IN God (Ephesians 3:9) and never revealed to anyone (Ephesians 3:5) before that point in time in 63AD. The olive tree was hewn to the roots at Acts 28 and Israel was temporarily set aside as prophesied in Hosea 1:9.

This revelation was for the church which is...HIS...body (Ephesians 1:22,23) and ….the hope …..of the calling today is to the Heaven far above all where Christ sits at the right hand of God (Colossians 3:1-4). This calling is the only one that pierces the temporary heavens to the throne of God back to the Heaven of Gensis 1:1. It is the only one associated with His fulness.
This new calling, that numbered Israel among the nations and being on the same plane as Israel, was rejected by all in Asia (2Tim 1:15). They forsook Paul and did not believe the latest report from God.

This new company of redeemed is called the One NEW Man and is not associated with the olive tree as seen in Romans nor is it asscociated with Israel and the Levitical priesthood. This calling is the only calling that was known BEFORE the (katabole/overthrow) of the world (Genesis gap destruction). Those in the earthly sphere are FROM and SINCE the foundation of the world.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

BTW. I do appreciate the response and sorry I missed it. Sometimes I have to take a break to clean my nose-print off the monitor.

With few precious posts left before Chrisbot sends the thread into oblivion I humbly accept your apology and offer you the preverbial as an alternative to nose prints.

 

[By Faith Alone]

No they are not and your wording below seems to clarify this very well

You'll have to come up with a better post than your fabulously acclaimed post #200 to have anyone believe otherwise imo

Try again:

The fact is that there are 3 churches/ekklesias mentioned in the Bible that are IN CHRIST.
Eph 3:15 Of whom ...EVERY.... family in heaven and earth is named,

There is more than one sphere of blessings in God's plan...one for each of the three named churches.

"Fabulously acclaimed". Figures.

 

[By Faith Alone]

The quote below doesn't address anything in Hebrews 10:23-27. It is irrelevant.

It was addressed to the Hebrews in the "last days" of THAT dispensation. "As a hen gathers her chickens under her wings". The wilderness wandering.

 

[MrMoe]

Arrrrrrrrrrrr me arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrties, 'e be writen words aint got no sense in 'em

Negative particles repel each other, So do positive particles. The church was not united in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 that must mean it was not true according to the OP's logic.

I give you the nucleus, where positively charged particles are held together thanks to gluons.

Quantum physics, messing with people's heads since the 1940's

What would the nucleus of protestism be?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

You think not? So how do you read verses 25-27? Isn't that a dyer warning?

Let us hold on firmly to the hope we profess, because we can trust God to keep his promise. Let us be concerned for one another, to help one another to show love and to do good. Let us not give up the habit of meeting together, as some are doing. Instead, let us encourage one another all the more, since you see that the Day of the Lord is coming nearer. For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us. Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destroy those who oppose God! (Hebrews 10:23-27 GNB)​

Im not completely clear to its full meaning, some people think its a warning against legalism. I think it may be encouraging us to meet together so we can encourage each other to follow the commands of the Lord, but I don't think that its about failing to attend church, or that failing to meet together is a sin. However I think we need fellowship and the more we grow the more we desire it. BTW, I also think that fellowship can be achieved without actually meeting together in the flesh, maybe the internet isn't the best way but it helps me a lot. I love fellowshipping every day. Praise the Lord.