The House of Israel and The House of Judah

[mxyzpt1k]

Who got rid of the Jewish people,nowhere in the article was that stated...They are of the tribe of Judah,those that returned to the nation state of Israel along with those that call themselves Jew's,but are not...

HEBREWS 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
HEBREWS 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
HEBREWS 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
HEBREWS 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

God took Jerusalem away from the Jewish people because God was not longer using "National Isreal" as a place for the "Abrahamic Covenant". The covenant God had with their fathers, that protected them from the egyptians and brought them out of egypt. God abolished "National Isreal", and any special significance with "Jerusalem" after the Crucifixion. The Crucifixion was the new Covenant where any person could be "Slain in the Spirit for the Sake of Righteousness" and be an "Adopted Son" of the "Abrahamic Covenant". This is impossible for some people, so they deny this had taken place.

As your stated, If God did not renounce "The State of Isreal, and the City of Jerusalem", the Jewish people that returned there would constitute the "Tribe of Juda", and the Jewish people displaced worldwide would become the "Adoped Son" of "The Tribe of Juda". Where God alone, in the New Testament intended a Remnant of the Twelve Tribes or the "House of Isreal", not National Isreal to become the "Adopted Son" of the Tribe of Ephraim the Jewish people, through the Church.

THE DIVISION WAS OF GOD ... ... ... Birthright People Are Not Jews

This is Antisemitism, God did not take the Jerusalem away from the Jews to reduce the importance of the Jewish people since the "Abrahamic Covenant" was established by any mechanism of any kind. And yes, the Jewish people do not see the day of Judgment, like Moses did not see past the Jordon river, because Moses "smote the rock" he killed a man when God commanded him not to (not to sacrifice by the burning bush, but Moses taught sacrifices to them because of their sin), and the Jewish people smote the rock, they crucified Jesus when Jesus commanded them not to. (by withering the barren Olive tree, Jesus rebuked his crucifixion).

(The Jewish people will not see the day of judgment, but they will be blessed none the less ... and the nations rebuked in their name 13 Principalities 13 Million Jews, no 5 months for the Jews - cities built to 8 million instead of 13 million, but the earth is welcome. So we can see where the contention comes from, but the law is the law, and this will be done, with 11 principalities standing in the day of judgment, etc.)

 

[KrAZeD]

I can only provide scripture...which Ezekiel 37 provides in the prophecy, as well as the fact that as you read the gospels the land is Israel, There is no Judah or Israel...just Israel.

However the most important point is the fact that when Jesus institues the New Covenant...the covenant with Israel is no more:

Hebrews 8:13:
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Respected. Though personal belief is they will unite as one people and as one nation. Unlike today where they do keep a small distinction to what was Judaea, and the old Israel, though one nation on a map. Leaving Ezekiel still possibly not completely fulfilled.

I don't argue they are under the same grace covenant as us, though they are blinded to that fact (as a whole) still.

History wise the 1948 events are the closest to them becoming one nation that I can find. Prior to that either one or the other was captive to enemies.

 

[mxyzpt1k]

The Command to Slay the Jewish People when they are counted with the Tribe of Juda in Revelations

ACTS 1:16 Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
ACTS 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
ACTS 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
.................

II SAMUEL 1:16 And David said unto him, Thy blood [be] upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed.
II SAMUEL 1:17 And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:
II SAMUEL 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow: behold, [it is] written in the book of Jasher.)

The Jewish People do not see the 153 Days of the Cosmic Shift, because they betrayed Jesus in the name of Judas. The Books of Acts Says King David spoke the Command to Kill Judas ... King David said to the "Young Man" a picture of the Holy Spirit, to "teach the Tribe Judah to use the "Rainbow", instead of the Tribe of Ephraim". In the Book of Revelations the Tribe of Juda is called the Lion and the servant of David, where as previously, the Tribe of Ephraim was called the servant of David in the Old Testament (I KINGS 11:32 (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel (it was only the Jewish people that obtained Jerusalem in the name of King David)

Because you do not see the Day of Judgment, that is you do not see the 5 Months when the Manchild is born, because the bowels of Judas bust open. The 13 Million is cut down by 5 Million for the 5 months, and you are thus circumcised with 8 million as Jesus was Circumcised in the 8th Day, and the Tribe of Juda along with the Tribes of revelations are circumcised in the name of King David.

The Command to Kill the Jews is not given to mankind, God gives this Command and carries it out at the end of time, the bible once again does not support antisemitism, the holocaust, or the crucifixion of Jesus...(There's no language in the Bible that removes the Jewish people specifically from the covenant, anywhere, but there is language that says they will not see the 153 Days, and the nations are to be chastised, we have talked about this in the past but without much detail ... there is one more score I want you to settle, I can not do alone, we can take away the earth before it sees the 153 day period ... you were given instructions to these ends ... so we must be intelligent and maybe we can still pull this off while there is still time ... the antichrist can very easily take national and international attention before the time, and there is one response and one solution given the state of mind man is in and we must capitalize in this pretense, so this will be very easy, but I do not believe anymore signs like Flight 370 will be given, as their rest in peace is to remain)

 

[n2thelight]

mxyzpt1k

The Command to Slay the Jewish People when they are counted with the Tribe of Juda in Revelations

ACTS 1:16 Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
ACTS 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
ACTS 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
.................

II SAMUEL 1:16 And David said unto him, Thy blood [be] upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the LORD'S anointed.
II SAMUEL 1:17 And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:
II SAMUEL 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow: behold, [it is] written in the book of Jasher.)
​

The Jewish People do not see the 153 Days of the Cosmic Shift, because they betrayed Jesus in the name of Judas. The Books of Acts Says King David spoke the Command to Kill Judas ... King David said to the "Young Man" a picture of the Holy Spirit, to "teach the Tribe Judah to use the "Rainbow", instead of the Tribe of Ephraim". In the Book of Revelations the Tribe of Juda is called the Lion and the servant of David, where as previously, the Tribe of Ephraim was called the servant of David in the Old Testament (I KINGS 11:32 (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel (it was only the Jewish people that obtained Jerusalem in the name of King David)

I don't see how this is a command to kill the Jewish people

Acts 1:16 ""Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guided to them that took Jesus."

The Spirit of God spoke through the mouth of David, and told one thousnd years before Judas betrayed Jesus, that this event would come to pass. Pentecost day was not the first day that the Holy Spirit [Ghost] spoke through someone. Psalm 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trustd, which did eat of my bread, Hath lifted up his heel against me."

Remember what Jesus said to Judas? he that dips bread, [Christ bread] will betray Me. Judas was Christ's trusted friend, who carried the money bag, and stood by the Lord, did that. The Old Testament and the New being a witness to one another.

Acts 1:17 "For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry."

Judas was part of Jesus ministry, and he knew the truth, yet he still went astray.

Acts 1:18 "Now this man purhased a field wih the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

Do you know what this means? It means literally that Judah was murdered and cut to pieces, before he was then hung up to be killed. Have you ever seen someone hanged and their bowels just pour out? No, it just dosen't happen that way. This covers more then one scripture, for the field that Judas bought was the potters field. Those Jewish priests took the thirty pieces of Silver that they paid Judas to partake in their murderous plot to kill Jesus, and when Judas repented and threw those pieces of silver back at them, they used the silver to by the field. Blood money could not be used in the Temple. That was the price of a slave that was damaged or killed.

Then all the broken pieces of pottery would be cast into that field. This was symboolic that our Lord Jesus Christ is the only one that that can take these earthly vessels that we call our human body, and when they are broken and beyond repair, only Jesus can spiritually take those peises and put them back together. With the price of His death on the cross, His precious blood, can take those spiritual bodies and make them whole again, and a child of the Living God.

II Samuel 1:16 "And David said unto him, "Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, `I have slain the Lord anointed.' "

God has always said, "touch not mine anointed", and this man's lie and touching of God's anointed has cost him his life.

II Samuel 1:17 "And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:"

"Lamented with this lamentation" means that David wrote a song about the life of Saul and Jonathan, and this song would be well recorded and sung for many years to come. This was a song that David would insist that all the people learn and sing, much the same way as we respect our songs of heritage. David was always loyal to Saul the anointed of God, but David was also loyal to his best friend Jonathan. David was wise enough to know that it was the evil spirit of Satan that caused Saul to seek David's life.


II Samuel 1:18 "(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)"

Within the footnotes of the Companion bible, we see that this verse had been added to the original writings. The "lamentation" is still the object being talked about here, and the "bow" is the subject of the lamentation. This verse has nothing to do with the teaching the Israelites how to shoot and the use of the bow. The title of the song is called "the bow", and David is going to teach the people the words and music of the song.

 

[mxyzpt1k]

(In the Book of Acts it says King David predicted the death of Judas who was a Jew, would fall head long in a pool of his own blood (a picture of the "Abrahamic Covenant" being poured out), and who had betrayed Jesus. ... ... In the Book of Acts it says King David commanded the "Rainbow" to be taken from the Jewish People, and given to the Tribe of Juda. ... ... In the Book of Revelations the Tribe of Ephraim that identifies with the Jewish people is not given, and the Tribe of Juda is called the servant. If the Jewish People are no longer the people of God they are Dead, this is why they do not see the 153 Days of the Cosmic Shift. ... The Bible Does not Support Antisemitism, but it does support this conclusion ... in this sense the Jewish people are not renounced and slain, they are slain and rewarded to the glory of god in the giving of his inheritance.)

(Comment Enclosed in Parenthesis - only the The Tribe of Dan is renounced and slain - remember the foolishness of Antisemitism is overturned very easily)

 

[n2thelight]

"The Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them out of His sight; there was none left but the Tribe of Judah only"
II Kings 17:18

"Thou shalt be called by a new name which the mouth of the Lord shall call."
Isaiah 62:2

"It shall come to pass in that day, that a great trumpet shall be blown; and they shall come which were LOST in the land of Assyria."
Isaiah 27:13 (marginal rendering)

My people hath been LOST sheep."
Jeremiah 50:6

"I will seek that which was LOST and bring again that which was driven away. "
Ezekiel 34:16

"I was not sent but unto the LOST sheep of the House of Israel."
Matthew 15:24

But go rather to the LOST sheep of the House of Israel."
Matthew 10:6

The Evidence Of Secular History

1. Josephus the famous Jewish Historian wrote in his book "Antiquities of the Jews":
   
   "The entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but TWO TRIBES in Asia and Europe, subject to the Romans; while the TEN TRIBES are beyond the Euphrates till now and are an immense multitude not to be estimated by numbers."​
   So the fate of Israel was well known in the First Century A.D., and they were not back in Palestine.
2. The ancient historian Kitto states:
   "After the captivity we hear very little of the territories of the Tribes for Ten of them NEVER RETURNED."​
3. In the Second Book of Esdras in the Apocrypha we read:
   "These are the Ten Tribes... carried away prisoners out of their own land... whom Shalmaneser, King of Assyria led away captive; and he carried them over the waters... but they took counsel among themselves that they would have the multitude of the heathen and go forth into a far country where never mankind dwelt. They entered into the Euphrates... for the Most High held still the flood till they were passed over."​
   This journey took the Israelites through a narrow gap in the Caucasus called the Dariel Pass or the Pass of Israel to the land of Arsareth in the steppes of what is now Southern Russia. Their gravestones are there to this day and we read, e.g.:
   "I am Jehudi, the son of Moses, the Son of Jehudi the Mighty, a man of the Tribe of Naphtali, carried captive with other tribes of Israel by Prince Shalmaneser... to Halah and Habor, to Gozan and to the Chersonesus."​
   Another Crimean gravestone reads:
   "Zadock the Levite died 785 years after our exile."​
   Prof. Chirolson of Petrograd deciphered over 700 of these epigraphs in the Crimea where Lost Israel passed through. Thence they migrated across Europe into these islands.
4. Henry's Commentary in its early editions written before there was any organised British-Israel movement says:
   "The greatest part of Ten of the Twelve Tribes were LOST in captivity."​
5. Dr. Scofield and the seven co-editors of the Scofield Reference Bible stated:
   "From the Assyrian captivity the Ten Tribes NEVER RETURNED."​
   Can all these authorities be wrong and Rev. Dunlop correct? Now to the evidence of Scripture and History we will add the statements of those so dear to the heart of Rev. Dunlop; the Jews. Surely even he must admit that they should know where Israel is today.

The Jewish Evidence

1. The famous Rabbi Kimchi who lived in the 13th century wrote commenting on Hosea 1 v. 11:
   "This will come to pass in the days of the Messiah: for unto the Second Temple there only went up Judah and Benjamin who were carried away captive to Babylon, and the children of Israel were not gathered together at that time."​
2. The Jewish Chronicle of May 22nd, 1879:
   "While not a link is missing of the historical chain so far as the romance of the House of Judah is concerned, the Israelites who were subjected by the Assyrian power disappear from the page of history as suddenly and completely as though the land of their captivity had swallowed them up... the Ten Tribes are certainly in existence, all that has to be done is to discover which people represent them."​
3. The Jewish Quarterly Review of July 1903:
   "The career of the Jews can be traced without difficulty... until the present day. Of that of the Israelites... nothing authoritative is known after their departure from the fatherland, to Habor and Halath... they seemed to have passed from human knowledge."​
4. The Jewish Religion by Isaac Leiser, Vol. 1, page 256:
   "By the return of the captives from Babylon, the Israelites were not restored, since the Ten Tribes... were left in banishment and to this day the researches of travellers and wise men have not been able to trace their fate."​
5. C. and A. D. Rothschild in History and Literature of the Israelites, Vol. 1, page 489:
   "The Ten Tribes of Israel were not even permitted like the sister kingdom of Judah, to bequeath to later ages... the memory of rich and varied destinies. They were irretrievably LOST."​
6. Rabbi Gershom:
   "We are longing to find our LOST brethren who for two thousand years have baffled all our efforts to discover their whereabouts, and are at this time a riddle to the greatest of our illustrious Rabbis."​
7. Former Chief Rabbi - Dr. H. Adler:
   "You are quite right to assume that the Ten Tribes did not return to the Holy Land."​
8. Dr. Hertz - Chief Rabbi in 1918:
   "The people known as Jews are the descendants of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date."​
9. Rabbi Aaron Werner of Spokane, U.S.A., when asked by the late Dr. Schiffner - "Do the Jews represent all Twelve Tribes?" replied:
   "No, the Ten Tribes of Israel were carried away by Sennacherib King of Assyria and have become LOST. The Jews of today are but a remnant made up of the Tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi."​
10. Rabbi A. H. Fink of Temple Immanuel - Spokane, U.S.A., in reply to the same question stated:
    "The Jews do not claim to represent the Twelve Tribes for the Ten Tribes never returned from captivity and are LOST to history"​
11. The Authorised Daily Prayer Book of the United Hebrew Congregations of the British Empire contains this prayer:
    "As for our brethren, the whole House of Israel, such of them as are given over to trouble or captivity... have mercy on them and bring them from trouble to enlargement, from darkness to light, from subjection to redemption, now, speedily and at a near time."​
12. Rev. Elieser Bassin - born of wealthy and pious Jewish parents in Russia, in his book "British and Jewish Fraternity" says:
    "The Hebrew Scriptures point to the British Isles as the home of God's first-born."​
    "It is my conviction that Britain is the nation with whom God has from first to last identified Himself. I an Israelite of the House of Judah, claim you (British) as Israelites of the House of Ephraim. As believers in the faithfulness of our Covenant keeping God I call you to awake from your sleep."​

 

[JohnRabbit]

Amazing how none of this is in the NT. Who are we following?

amazing that it doesn't have to be in the NT!

 

[Rev20]

It is very important for every student of prophecy, in fact, it is absolutely necessary for their understanding, to see the distinction the Bible makes between the Jews and the other Tribes of Israel. The Bible Distinction Between"The House of Israel"and"The House of Judah"

All you really need to know about the twelve tribes is they were joined back together after their return from Babylon under the leadership of Judah, similar to the way it was prior to them splitting into two nations. Moses prophesied of this gathering, or restoration:

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." -- Gen 49:10​

The Septuagint (LXX), which is the Greek version of the old testament often quoted by Jesus and his disciples, was translated about 275 BC during the restoration. It explains the gathering of the people under Judah, which fulfilled the prophecy of Moses:

"Then shalt thou say to them, Thus saith the Lord; behold, I will take the tribe of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel that belong to him, and I will add them to the tribe of Juda, and they shall become one rod in the hand of Juda." (Eze 37:19 LXX)​

You will not find that kind of understanding from the newer Masoretic text that most modern translations use, such as the King James Version. But since the narrative of the Septuagint does not fit many of the more recently invented doctrines, such as dispensationalism, it is often ignored or even written off.

But the Masoretic text does contain a good understanding of the rejoining of the two nations and the restoration in the historical book of Ezra, beginning with the decree of Cyrus where he proclaimed that all of God's people could return to the land to help build the temple:

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem. And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem. Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the Lord which is in Jerusalem." -- Ezra 1:1-5​

"So the priests, and the Levites, and some of the people, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, dwelt in their cities, and all Israel in their cities." -- Ezra 2:70​

"And when the seventh month was come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem." -- Ezra 3:1​

At the temple dedication, Ezra recorded that there was a sin offering for all twelve tribes:

"And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king. And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house of God with joy. And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." -- Ezra 6:15-17​

And this passage explains that those of the Assyrian captivity--the northern ten tribes of Israel--were also part of the return and restoration:

"And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the Lord God of Israel, did eat, And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: for the Lord had made them joyful, and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, the God of Israel." -- Ezra 6:21-22​

That last passage could only be referring to the northern ten tribes of Israel who were carried away by the Assyrians prior to Judah being carried away by the Babylonians (which was prior to the Babylonians defeating Assyria). Therefore, all twelve tribes were allowed to return; and many did.

Note that Ezra was not referring to every child of Israel, since some did not return, but preferred to remain in the areas of their former captivity. That is confirmed by the second regathering, which occurred during the ministry of the Lord and his Apostles when they sought out the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 10:6 & 15:24):

"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people. . ." - Isa 11:10-11​

After the return and rejoining of the kingdom, Israel experienced many years of peace (about 300 years), until it sinned and broke the covenant (again). Then, about 175 BC, the Lord sent Antiochus IV (aka, Gog, the chief prince of Magog) to punish them (Eze 38 & 39).

Notice that sometimes Ezra mentions the children of Israel and the rest (the Jews); and other times he mentions the Jews and the rest (Israel). Therefore, Ezra still recognized the two separate kingdoms at that time (as Israel and Judah), even though they had been combined under the banner of Judah (Eze 37:19 LXX).

By the first century, they were all called the generic name of "Jew", regardless of tribe. But the tribes other than Judah were singled out in the New Testament, individually or all, from time to time:

"And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;" -- Luke 2:36​

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." -- Jas 1:1​

Paul included himself as an "Israelite", first, and in particular made a point that all twelve tribes were already part of the Church:

"And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews." -- Acts 26:6-7​

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew." -- Rom 11:1-2​

But the most revealing is Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost, and shortly thereafter. Peter spoke as if all the tribes were present:

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven . . . Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: . . . Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. . . For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." -- Acts 2:5, 22, 36, 39​

"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." -- Acts 3:25-26​

.

 

[JohnRabbit]

The Lord prophesied through Ezekiel He would make Israel and Judah one house. He did that after the 70 year Babylonian exile. Ezekiel 37.

Furthermore the only remaining point was that the scepter not depart from Judah until Shiloh came.

Now what?

if what you say is true, then why isn't david king over in israel right now instead of benjamin nettanyahu (i know he's not a king, just talking about the head of state), per ezek 37:24?

 

[Rev20]

In the Book of Revelations the Tribe of Juda is called the Lion and the servant of David...

I have not read of anyone in the New Testament being the servant of David. I have read that Christ is the root and the offspring of David (Rev 22:16); which interpreted means that Christ is the father of Adam, who was David's ancestor, and is also a direct descendant, or seed, of David.


.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Abraham was a Jewish Person, the Genealogy of Luke that recounts Jesus, recounts the BloodLine of the Jewish People, also called the Hebrew People, specifically.

how could abraham be a jew, when judah hadn't even been born in his time?

notice:

Hebrews 7:14(NKJV)
14For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah (Jesus was a jew), of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

remember that the all priest came from the tribe of levi!

moses was a levite, not a jew (see ex 2:1, it speaks of moses' parents)!

Hebrews 7:5(NKJV)
5And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham;


and this:

Hebrews 7:9-10(NKJV)
9Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak,
10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.


so if levi was still in abraham's loins, and levi and judah are brothers, then guess where judah was at the same time!

 

[JohnRabbit]

I can only provide scripture...which Ezekiel 37 provides in the prophecy, as well as the fact that as you read the gospels the land is Israel, There is no Judah or Israel...just Israel.

However the most important point is the fact that when Jesus institues the New Covenant...the covenant with Israel is no more:

Hebrews 8:13:
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

may i suggest that you read jeremiah 30, (read the whole chapter)!

it's a prophecy about the "end time".

here's to whom it is addressed:

Jeremiah 30:4(NKJV)
4Now these are the words that the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah.

pay particular attention to verses 9 and 24 to your time frame!

 

[JohnRabbit]

All you really need to know about the twelve tribes is they were joined back together after their return from Babylon under the leadership of Judah, similar to the way it was prior to them splitting into two nations. Moses prophesied of this gathering, or restoration:

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." -- Gen 49:10​

The Septuagint (LXX), which is the Greek version of the old testament often quoted by Jesus and his disciples, was translated about 275 BC during the restoration. It explains the gathering of the people under Judah, which fulfilled the prophecy of Moses:

"Then shalt thou say to them, Thus saith the Lord; behold, I will take the tribe of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel that belong to him, and I will add them to the tribe of Juda, and they shall become one rod in the hand of Juda." (Eze 37:19 LXX)​

You will not find that kind of understanding from the newer Masoretic text that most modern translations use, such as the King James Version. But since the narrative of the Septuagint does not fit many of the more recently invented doctrines, such as dispensationalism, it is often ignored or even written off.

But the Masoretic text does contain a good understanding of the rejoining of the two nations and the restoration in the historical book of Ezra, beginning with the decree of Cyrus where he proclaimed that all of God's people could return to the land to help build the temple:

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem. And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem. Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the Lord which is in Jerusalem." -- Ezra 1:1-5​

"So the priests, and the Levites, and some of the people, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, dwelt in their cities, and all Israel in their cities." -- Ezra 2:70​

"And when the seventh month was come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered themselves together as one man to Jerusalem." -- Ezra 3:1​

At the temple dedication, Ezra recorded that there was a sin offering for all twelve tribes:

"And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king. And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house of God with joy. And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel." -- Ezra 6:15-17​

And this passage explains that those of the Assyrian captivity--the northern ten tribes of Israel--were also part of the return and restoration:

"And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the Lord God of Israel, did eat, And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: for the Lord had made them joyful, and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, the God of Israel." -- Ezra 6:21-22​

That last passage could only be referring to the northern ten tribes of Israel who were carried away by the Assyrians prior to Judah being carried away by the Babylonians (which was prior to the Babylonians defeating Assyria). Therefore, all twelve tribes were allowed to return; and many did.

Note that Ezra was not referring to every child of Israel, since some did not return, but preferred to remain in the areas of their former captivity. That is confirmed by the second regathering, which occurred during the ministry of the Lord and his Apostles when they sought out the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 10:6 & 15:24):

"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people. . ." - Isa 11:10-11​

After the return and rejoining of the kingdom, Israel experienced many years of peace (about 300 years), until it sinned and broke the covenant (again). Then, about 175 BC, the Lord sent Antiochus IV (aka, Gog, the chief prince of Magog) to punish them (Eze 38 & 39).

Notice that sometimes Ezra mentions the children of Israel and the rest (the Jews); and other times he mentions the Jews and the rest (Israel). Therefore, Ezra still recognized the two separate kingdoms at that time (as Israel and Judah), even though they had been combined under the banner of Judah (Eze 37:19 LXX).

By the first century, they were all called the generic name of "Jew", regardless of tribe. But the tribes other than Judah were singled out in the New Testament, individually or all, from time to time:

"And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;" -- Luke 2:36​

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." -- Jas 1:1​

Paul included himself as an "Israelite", first, and in particular made a point that all twelve tribes were already part of the Church:

"And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers: Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews." -- Acts 26:6-7​

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew." -- Rom 11:1-2​

But the most revealing is Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost, and shortly thereafter. Peter spoke as if all the tribes were present:

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven . . . Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: . . . Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. . . For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." -- Acts 2:5, 22, 36, 39​

"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." -- Acts 3:25-26​

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read my post#32!

 

[Rev20]

read my post#32!

Okay, I read it. You are not interpreting verse 9 literally, are you?


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[Danoh]

Rev20, you make some fine points, but you're greatly confusing "churche"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7833971/

 

[JohnRabbit]

Okay, I read it. You are not interpreting verse 9 literally, are you?


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ok, you tell me what "And David their king, Whom I will raise up for them." means then.


and what about verse 4?

 

[Rev20]

ok, you tell me what "And David their king, Whom I will raise up for them." means then. and what about verse 4?

The references to David in Jer 30, Eze 34 & Eze 37, and Hos 3:4-5 all refer to the son of David, Jesus Christ:

"But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." -- Jer 30:9​

"And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods." -- Eze 34:23-25​

"And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever." -- Eze 37:24-25​

"For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days." -- Hos 3:4-5​

There were Pharisaic Jews who understood this: that David in the prophecy was referring to the son of David, who would be their Messiah (Matt 22:42). But what followed is where their understanding failed, in that they were expecting an earthly king, with the son of David sitting on an earthly throne as their Messiah.

It appears there may have been some Jews who believed a resurrected David was to be their king, succumbing to a literal interpretation of figurative scripture. They failed (or refused) to understand that God never promised David a permanent throne, but his seed, which was Christ:

"And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his [David's seed's] kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever." -- 2Sam 7:12-16​

"The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne." -- Ps 132:11​

Whatever they believed, Peter tried to explain to them that Christ was the fulfillment of the prophecies regarding David:

"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool." -- Acts 2:29-35​

I believe this to be the best description of the son of David named Jesus Christ:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." -- Isa 9:6​

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Regarding verse 4, Jeremiah was referring to the return from Babylon, when members of all twelve tribes converged under the leadership of Judah, as it was before the split. This actually began under Hezekiah before Judah was carried away into Babylon:

"So the posts went with the letters from the king [Hezekiah] and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria." -- 2Chr 30:6​

Many mocked Hezekiah's generous offer, but:

"Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem." -- 2Chr 30:11​

And,

"For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good Lord pardon every one" -- 2Chr 30:18​

So, when Judah was carried away into Babylon, it included the remnant from the 10 tribes that escaped the Assyrian captivity and had rejoined to Judah.

At the end of the 70 years, the decree of Cyrus (Ezra 1:1-5), which ask the children of Israel to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple, went out to all of God's people: not just to those of Judah.


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[Rev20]

Rev20, you make some fine points, but you're greatly confusing "churche"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7833971/

There is only one Church: the bride of Christ; the one Christ died for:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" -- Eph 5:25​

And the church will be around forever, along with the earth:

"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." -- Eph 3:21

"Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations." -- Ps 145:13

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecc 1:4​

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[Danoh]

There is only one Church: the bride of Christ; the one Christ died for:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" -- Eph 5:25​

And the church will be around forever, along with the earth:

"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." -- Eph 3:21

"Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations." -- Ps 145:13

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecc 1:4​

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How do you get "Bride of Christ" out of Eph. 5?

Paul's point is that "men ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones," Eph. 5:28-30.

He then relates that principle through an example familiar to the Bible student, but even then, he is not talking about the Body of Christ as His Bride, rather, as His Body.

Compare his use of the next passage, verse 31's "For this cause shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh," compare that with his use of it in 1 Cor. 6:

15: Know ye not.that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them members of an harlot? God forbid.

Certainly, he is neither speaking of Brides of Christ plural] nor of marriage to an harlot; of an harlot as a bride.

16. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17. But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
18. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

And how does this Great Mystery oneness come about as to this church - this new creature which is His Body?



1 Cor. 12:

12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one: so also is Christ.
13. FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and HAVE BEEN ALL MADE TO DRINK INTO one Spirit.

Paul goes on to continue to attempt this issue of loving one another even as Christ loves the Body, He gave Himself FOR.

But for your having fused together God's Two-Fold Purpose, you did well in your above article in those areas you approached with fresh eyes. But then you allowed the bias of traditional view to creep in unawares, which is why you basically hold to the overall position you do as to the Eschatology of these things as not Two- Fold Purpose, rather, one people.

Just some food for thought as you at least apparantly do invest time in Scripture, over most.

For that, I commend you. While, also, because of that, that we might perhaps actually "reason together."

In the true spirit of Acts 17: 11, 12, brother

 

[Interplanner]

How can you miss the bride in Eph 5?

there are not two programs running in the Bible.