If Protestantism is true, why they are not united? (2)

[Tzaousios]

Catholicism is not Biblical and I have no right to judge anyone's personal standing in Christ.

How do you know it is "not Biblical?" Because you have interpreted Scripture correctly, free from any other influences or prejudices, and decided that Catholics are not Biblical?

If you judge Catholicism not to be Biblical, that is making a judgment on a Catholic's personal standing with Christ since they tie ecclesiology and soteriology close together.

I NEVER said Catholics were not Christian. You are bearing false witness! I leave that to God too. I have never said Catholicism or Catholics are evil.

Again, did you ever think that when you say Catholicism is unbiblical, it also means to Catholics that you are indicating that they do not have biblical beliefs and are something less than Christian?

 

[MoreCoffee]

squint get's hit by stray stone

You are for stoning?

Stoning - Monty Python's Life of Brian - YouTube

 

[By Faith Alone]

How do you know it is "not Biblical?" Because you have interpreted Scripture correctly, free from any other influences or prejudices, and decided that Catholics are not Biblical?

If you judge Catholicism not to be Biblical, that is making a judgment on a Catholic's personal standing with Christ since they tie ecclesiology and soteriology close together.

Again, did you ever think that when you say Catholicism is unbiblical, it also means to Catholics that you are indicating that they do not have biblical beliefs and are something less than Christian?

Little do you know that faith in Christ and His Blood is what it takes for salvation. THAT is one's personal standing. I have no room to judge the heart but Biblical practices are to be judged according to the Holy Writ.
We ALL fail in some points for sure but that does not make anyone less saved.

The fact is that the many practices everywhere that differ are what divides the body of Christ. Not everyone can be right when so divided.

The ONLY way we can unite on this earth is to know the hope of our calling and what our calling may be. The unity of the Spirit CANNOT be broken for God only knows their standing and the Holy Spirit is the One that seals.

The fact is that there are very few that even know that the One New Man of Ephesians and Colossians is a different church due to lack of interest if the knowledge so much as fringes in the least on the practices performed today.

At least Lot had the sense to leave and not look back. But his wife....?

I am going to refine a post I have prepared to show the hope of OUR calling ...not to be confused with Israel.

 

[squint]

You are for stoning?

Only if done by a fundevangelical or Tzas

 

[MoreCoffee]

Only if done by a fundevangelical or Tzas

I knew it!

You're part of a conspiracy!

 

[Targaryen]

And we're off...

 

[MoreCoffee]

And we're off...

Been off for a while

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE=Tzaousios; How do you know it is "not Biblical?" Because you have interpreted Scripture correctly, free from any other influences or prejudices, and decided that Catholics are not Biblical

?


You're not Catholic. Isn't that how you did it?

If you judge Catholicism not to be Biblical, that is making a judgment on a Catholic's personal standing with Christ since they tie ecclesiology and soteriology close together.

Not necessarily. That may be some personal malice you have to deal with, but a lot of people know their personal relationship with Jesus is way stronger and more real than their relationship with any church. One might wonder why you make this assumption.

Again, did you ever think that when you say Catholicism is unbiblical, it also means to Catholics that you are indicating that they do not have biblical beliefs and are something less than Christian?

Did you ever think Catholicism's claim of being the one true church also means you and your church and beliefs are less than christian?
Did you ever thin that your choosing not to be Catholic is a rejection of their church and beliefs as biblical?

Do you know what the white stuff is in chicken poop?

 

[Targaryen]

You're not Catholic. Isn't that how you did it?

Can you not be boring with your rebuttals. You might actually get somewhere.

Did you ever think Catholicism's claim of being the one true church also means you and your church and beliefs are less than christian?
Did you ever thin that your choosing not to be Catholic is a rejection of their church and beliefs as biblical?

Do you know what the white stuff is in chicken poop?

Can you not be boringly predictable with your "rebuttals"?

The fish are not just swimming around the bait, they are pointing it out to other fish and laughing about how obvious it is.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Can you not be boringly predictable with your "rebuttals"?

The fish are not just swimming around the bait, they are pointing it out to other fish and laughing about how obvious it is.

But he works so assiduously to keep the thread alive

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Little do you know that faith in Christ and His Blood is what it takes for salvation.

Is that all it takes?

James 2:24
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Romans 2
. 6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


etc.

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE=catholichomeschooler; Is that all it takes?

Yes,... unless you have an elite class to support that calls itself clergy.




James 2:24
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith only.

God is no respecter of persons and man's noblest efforts are like filthy rags.
Salvific righteousness is given out of mercy to the undeserving, lest any man boast and mercy be no more mercy, but has become merit.


Matt 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

-Which is simply the difference between false confessions going thru motions in hopes of earning mercy, and true believers who follow the true Sheppard and don't listen to lawless claims of illegitimate authorities.


John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

We are saved for His glory. It's nice that we love, but let's not overrate ourselves.


Romans 2
. 6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

He relays according to the nature of the acts as the acts themselves have no good in and of themselves. It is acts of faith from the motive of belief rather than acts of hope out of the motive of fear that are by nature, righteous.
They seek glory and honor for God, not themselves.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1Cor3:[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Targaryen]

Yes,... unless you have an elite class to support that calls itself clergy.

So does England...you have a real point yet?

 

[Rick Otto]

So does England...you have a real point yet?

So England is no different.
Got a real question?

 

[By Faith Alone]

So England is no different.
Got a real question?

You and I both know that the basis for salvation is faith. The Scriptures listed as "added requirements" are only towards rewards. Your quote in 1 Corinthians is proof of that.

Everybody wants to be a teacher and most can't even read.

 

[Targaryen]

You and I both know that the basis for salvation is faith. The Scriptures listed as "added requirements" are only towards rewards. Your quote in 1 Corinthians is proof of that.

Everybody wants to be a teacher and most can't even read.

the basis for salvation is the Grace of God that died on the cross to save us. Faith is part of it, but your own added requirements are just as man-made as any other system.

Well done.

 

[squint]

the basis for salvation is the Grace of God that died on the cross to save us. Faith is part of it, but your own added requirements are just as man-made as any other system.

Well done.

To be fair that is not what was said.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

You and I both know that the basis for salvation is faith. The Scriptures listed as "added requirements" are only towards rewards. Your quote in 1 Corinthians is proof of that.

Everybody wants to be a teacher and most can't even read.

I think the problem for many protestants is that they confuse the Jewish Law with obedience to Jesus. When Paul speaks of works of the law, he is not talking about obedience to Christ. Paul is quite clear that we are not saved by works of the law, but by the grace which enables us to follow Jesus. What we do matters. We can't do it alone, but we must cooperate with God's grace in order to go to heaven.



1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Romans 14:10
You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

1 Cor 6
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a person is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I think the problem for many protestants is that they confuse the Jewish Law with obedience to Jesus. When Paul speaks of works of the law, he is not talking about obedience to Christ. Paul is quite clear that we are not saved by works of the law, but by the grace which enables us to follow Jesus. What we do matters. We can't do it alone, but we must cooperate with God's grace in order to go to heaven.

I suggest you catholic folks stop with this separation of protestants/catholics. You are just as much in error. I, at least, recognize the dispensation boundary at Acts 28:

Before Acts 28
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and... worketh righteousness.... is accepted with him.

After Acts 28
Titus 3:5 Not..... by works of righteousness which we have done... but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Israel, as a nation, is not in view in this dispensation
Some denomination here is not as smart as they think they are. I say that with love, BFA

 

[By Faith Alone]

We cannot attain a unity of any kind if we do NOT realize the “hope of our calling”. That includes catholics.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I suppose everyone notices the references to the “hope of your calling”. I point out the reference of Ephesians 1:18.

2 Peter 1:12...be established in the.... present ….truth.
That verse is very important to consider. Over time God has dealt with man in different ways as He so chooses for His Divine purpose.

Rom 10:16-17 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord..... who hath believed our report?..... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As new messages come from God there are those that choose not to believe even though they claim to be Godly people. They ignore the message and continue with the status quo. Jeremiah was given a new revelation from God and that message was delivered. Here is how that message was treated:
Jer 36:23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
There is a Jehudi around every corner in Christendom today. Has been that way since the days of Adam and Eve.
There is only a small inner circle that believes the Truth for today and accept God at His Word.


The fact is that there are 3 churches/ekklesias mentioned in the Bible that are IN CHRIST.
Eph 3:15 Of whom ...EVERY.... family in heaven and earth is named,

There is more than one sphere of blessings in God's plan...one for each of the three named churches.
The first church is Israel:
Matt 15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 16:18....upon this rock I will build my... ISRAEL;

Their hope is the land of Canaan. "The meek shall inherit the earth"..the land of Canaan. That is ...the hope.... of Israel (Acts 28:20)

The second church is the church of the firstborn:

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven
The hope of that calling will be to inherit the New Jerusalem descending DOWN from heaven as seen in Revelation. They are listed in Hebrews chapter 11 and will include the martyrs/overcomers of Revelation. They will live and reign with Christ for a 1,000 years of His total reign as a reward for service. They have a ..BETTER... country (Hebrew 11:16) and a ...BETTER ...resurrection (Hebrews 11:35)....a BETTER hope (7:19)

Clarification before I proceed to the third calling and hope associated with that calling.

The NT and OT divisions are uninspired and are not in the original manuscripts. Malachi left off with Israel in view and Matthew picks up the narrative at the birth of their Messiah in the Person of Jesus Christ. Israel was the focus of the Lord's earthly ministry (Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, Hebrews 1:2). Israel was also the main focus of the Acts period (Acts 1:6 and 28:20). The good olive tree and the wild olive tree showed the Gentiles at a disadvantage. The epistles associated with the Acts period were also focusing on Israel.
The first two callings are located under the temporary Heaven that was spread forth as a tent called the firmament. The third calling is not under this temporary heaven and has yet to be revealed until AD 63.

Acts 28 is very important. Please take it to heart. There was a great rent in that chapter. Israel now had their last call to accept Jesus as Messiah but they did not and Israel was set aside as favored nation at that point in time. Paul, being the apostle to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1), was then given a new revelation concerning a new group/church/company/ekklesia of redeemed bound for a different and higher hope. This calling was never before revealed in any way, shape or form. It was hid IN God (Ephesians 3:9) and never revealed to anyone (Ephesians 3:5) before that point in time in 63AD. The olive tree was hewn to the roots at Acts 28 and Israel was temporarily set aside as prophesied in Hosea 1:9.

This revelation was for the church which is...HIS...body (Ephesians 1:22,23) and ….the hope …..of the calling today is to the Heaven far above all where Christ sits at the right hand of God (Colossians 3:1-4). This calling is the only one that pierces the temporary heavens to the throne of God back to the Heaven of Gensis 1:1. It is the only one associated with His fulness.
This new calling, that numbered Israel among the nations and being on the same plane as Israel, was rejected by all in Asia (2Tim 1:15). They forsook Paul and did not believe the latest report from God.

This new company of redeemed is called the One NEW Man and is not associated with the olive tree as seen in Romans nor is it asscociated with Israel and the Levitical priesthood. This calling is the only calling that was known BEFORE the (katabole/overthrow) of the world (Genesis gap destruction). Those in the earthly sphere are FROM and SINCE the foundation of the world.