Why do some christians think that morals come from god?

workmx

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I don't understand your dissension here. Are you saying that raping little girls, slavery, and antisemitism can at times have a positive moral value attached to these practices?

I am laughed at your breach of Godwin's Law and that is all. :thumbsup:
 
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Joshua260

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I would have to put it back to you in reverse order:

Should it have ever been morally acceptable to kill people for working on the Sabbath, homosexuality, blasphemy, or kids who disobey their parents?

These were all considered morally acceptable to kill people for just a few thousand years ago.

I agree that morals change over time, but I don't think a divine being is necessary for any sort of moral foundation.
We can certainly go into Old Testament issues in another thread. And I wasn't going to address whether there is a divine being just yet. My only assertion so far is that there are objective moral values and duties.

But I noticed that you asked "Should it have ever been morally acceptable to kill people for working on the Sabbath, homosexuality, blasphemy, or kids who disobey their parents?" I take it then that you believe that this was wrong, no matter when or who might have believed it to be morally acceptable at one time, is that correct?
 
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workmx

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I don't understand your dissension here. Are you saying that raping little girls, slavery, and antisemitism can at times have a positive moral value attached to these practices?

Unless you were actually serious.

Was your post not a joke???

I misinterpreted it???

:confused::confused::confused:
 
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dcalling

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There is literally no evidence for anything supernatural.

But no one can give evidence that there is nothing supernatural either.

The James Randi Foundation has a $1mill prize for you, if you can prove otherwise.
Anyone can setup $2mil prize for prove of no supernatural too.
It covers all aspects of my approach to life.
That should make you an agnostic, not an atheist.

There is no evidence that god exists, therefore I assume that gods do not exist.

A lot evidence that God exists. No one is able to create a computer that have human level intelligence, Chicken or egg come first?

In that same way, I assume that Santa and the tooth fairy do not exist.

I could be wrong though: I have seen real presents that Santa is claimed to have delivered.

I think he does more to address his burden of proof than do any gods.

Every year I saw many Santa so you might be right :)

Burden of proof is with the claimant, my friend.

Unless you are a agnostic, you are also a claimant :)
 
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workmx

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But no one can give evidence that there is nothing supernatural either.

So why believe in the supernatural?

Anyone can setup $2mil prize for prove of no supernatural too.

Indeed.

That should make you an agnostic, not an atheist.

AFAIK they are not mutually exclusive.

A lot evidence that God exists. No one is able to create a computer that have human level intelligence, Chicken or egg come first?

That contradicts your first statement. God is supernatural (beyond natural) therefore there can be no evidence that gods exist.

Or do I have it wrong?

Every year I saw many Santa so you might be right :)

Indeed.

Unless you are a agnostic, you are also a claimant :)

I have previously said that I have not seen any evidence for the existence of gods.

If that makes me agnostic, so be it.

Thnaks for letting me know myself better.
 
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Lenny3

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We can certainly go into Old Testament issues in another thread. And I wasn't going to address whether there is a divine being just yet. My only assertion so far is that there are objective moral values and duties.
"Objective morals" don't make sense to me since morals change within any give culture dependent on the given time/place. Morals are subjective.

But I noticed that you asked "Should it have ever been morally acceptable to kill people for working on the Sabbath, homosexuality, blasphemy, or kids who disobey their parents?" I take it then that you believe that this was wrong, no matter when or who might have believed it to be morally acceptable at one time, is that correct?
No, that is not correct. In this time and place, all of those things are morally reprehensible. In a different time and place, they were A-ok. I cannot project my modern morals onto those of the bronze-aged.
 
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workmx

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"Objective morals" don't make sense to me since morals change within any give culture dependent on the given time/place. Morals are subjective.

No, that is not correct. In this time and place, all of those things are morally reprehensible. In a different time and place, they were A-ok. I cannot project my modern morals onto those of the bronze-aged.

Indeed, but we can recognise that their morality was underdeveloped compared to our own.

In fact, most religios people do this unconsciously.

Also because of that lack of development, we should disgard anything they they had to say on the topic.

This is the key step that I would like to see the religious take.
 
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dcalling

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So why believe in the supernatural?
Already explained to you in a prior post, computers, which you claim did not understand...

Indeed.
AFAIK they are not mutually exclusive.

That contradicts your first statement. God is supernatural (beyond natural) therefore there can be no evidence that gods exist.
Or do I have it wrong?

The evidence are auxiliary. Computer vs humans (as in prior post), chicken/egg, shorten of Y chromosome... All make that there are something supernatural very likely. especially human intelligence. We can do what natural can't do in millions of years, but if we humans with intelligence can't design something that are comparable to us, natural certainly can't either.

I have previously said that I have not seen any evidence for the existence of gods.

If that makes me agnostic, so be it.

Thnaks for letting me know myself better.
You are very welcome :)
 
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workmx

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The evidence are auxiliary. Computer vs humans (as in prior post), chicken/egg, shorten of Y chromosome... All make that there are something supernatural very likely. especially human intelligence. We can do what natural can't do in millions of years, but if we humans with intelligence can't design something that are comparable to us, natural certainly can't either.

Isn't that just another way of saying: I don't know.

How do you get from "I don't know" to "God did it"?
 
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dcalling

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Isn't that just another way of saying: I don't know.

How do you get from "I don't know" to "God did it"?

It is the very strong evidence. So scientists think there are black holes in the universe, they are not certain but they got some "side evidences" that they think can prove it. Does black holes exists? all they can say is "likely"
 
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Lenny3

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It is the very strong evidence. So scientists think there are black holes in the universe, they are not certain but they got some "side evidences" that they think can prove it. Does black holes exists? all they can say is "likely"

We can see massive gravitational pulls in the universe by observing flows in Redshift. That is evidence for black holes. I'm not sure you know what Black Holes are, but no matter your ignorance, they do exist... and there is a lot of evidence for them.

BTW - There is no "proof" in science. Science deals with facts and evidence. Proofs are for math.
 
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Mcleanch1

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We can see massive gravitational pulls in the universe by observing flows in Redshift. That is evidence for black holes. I'm not sure you know what Black Holes are, but no matter your ignorance, they do exist... and there is a lot of evidence for them.

BTW - There is no "proof" in science. Science deals with facts and evidence. Proofs are for math.

Wonderfully said!
 
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dcalling

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We can see massive gravitational pulls in the universe by observing flows in Red Shift. That is evidence for black holes. I'm not sure you know what Black Holes are, but no matter your ignorance, they do exist... and there is a lot of evidence for them.

BTW - There is no "proof" in science. Science deals with facts and evidence. Proofs are for math.

There are a lot of evidences for them, but they are all theories, so even with strong evidences, you can only say that black holes very likely exists (note I didn't say they don't exist) due to observations and our current understanding of mass and gravity.

A claim that black holes do exist is just ... unscientific :)
 
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workmx

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It is the very strong evidence. So scientists think there are black holes in the universe, they are not certain but they got some "side evidences" that they think can prove it. Does black holes exists? all they can say is "likely"

"Black holes" cannot be seen but the fact that they must exist is proved by, and even their mass can be measured by, the effect they have on other things.

AFAIK, there is not evidence of gods existing or even of them having an effect on anything.
 
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workmx

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There are a lot of evidences for them, but they are all theories, so even with strong evidences, you can only say that black holes very likely exists (note I didn't say they don't exist) due to observations and our current understanding of mass and gravity.

A claim that black holes do exist is just ... unscientific :)

Do you know what theory means?

I doubt it.
 
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Harry3142

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Yes, provide: one peer-reviewed article will suffice.

Thanks in advance.

In National Geographic's publication of June, 2011, There is an article entitled The Birth of Religion. In this article you will find basically the same ideas which I have already written in my previous messages. You may be able to read it at www.ngm.com. If not, most libraries in the USA have National Geographic on hand dating back that far.

Since that article was published there have been documentaries concerning Tobekli Tepe, the location in Turkey where the 12,000 year-old temple was discovered that dramatically altered the view of scientists concerning religion and its influence on civilization.
 
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