The terminal decline of Christianity in New Zealand

[Sectio Aurea]

I do believe and I do see, on the streets of New Zealand, an upswing in the church whether it be universal or not.

You are entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but keep in mind they are beliefs and opinions, not counter arguments to statistics.

Anyway, I thought your comment about Christianity being on the upswing because of you was intended to be taken in jest?

Sounds like you guys are taking things too serious.

 

[mathclub]

Your asking to give reply to a hypothetical question about that which cannot naturally be.

So you're saying people can't simply choose to believe in things which are supernatural? Despite saying earlier that belief is a choice?

So belief in god, which is supernatural, is not a choice?

See the mess you get yourself into when you haven't thought something through and then try to defend a bad position instead of just doing the intellectually honest thing and admitting you were wrong?

Belief is not a choice. You were wrong.

 

[mathclub]

I don't state the authority to "override" anything. I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to investing your faith in a survey. I do believe and I do see, on the streets of New Zealand, an upswing in the church whether it be universal or not. I count myself a small piece of the puzzle. I don't believe you have the right nor the reason to negatively categorize people's thought processes, nor question their reasons for believing.

Proverbs 9:10, "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom..."

Psalm 14:1, "The fool says in his heart, there is no God..."

Your right to a belief doesn't mean that your belief is right.

Census statistics clearly show that Christianity has been in decline for several decades. If you choose to hold a view contrary to that then you are quite simply wrong.

 

[Blessedj01]

You are entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but keep in mind they are beliefs and opinions, not counter arguments to statistics.

Anyway, I thought your comment about Christianity being on the upswing because of you was intended to be taken in jest?

Sounds like you guys are taking things too serious.

Thanks for that, thought-police.

Your right to a belief doesn't mean that your belief is right.

Census statistics clearly show that Christianity has been in decline for several decades. If you choose to hold a view contrary to that then you are quite simply wrong.

Sorry that I'm wrong, according to you only. I never made any claims as to the census. I'm talking about my perception and my perception alone.

Maybe you both need to have a little read about the census and your precious statistics:

http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/is-new-zealand-a-christian-nation/

 

[Sectio Aurea]

Thanks for that, thought-police.



Sorry that I'm wrong, according to you only. I never made any claims as to the census. I'm talking about my perception and my perception alone.

Maybe you both need to have a little read about the census and your precious statistics:

Is New Zealand a Christian nation? | Open Parachute

Your link supports the statistics and thus the jist of this thread. Continue your belief to the contrary. You have a right to bury your head in the sand.

 

[Blessedj01]

Your link supports the statistics and thus the jist of this thread. Continue your belief to the contrary. You have a right to bury your head in the sand.

If you read it properly, it talks about how the statistics could be affected by various things and presented in various ways.

I never posted it as a refutation of the statistics, it's just talking about it in less black and white ways.

If you're here on these forums, why don't you just try to be polite? Is it really your goal in life to be rude to people? To tell them to "bury their heads in the sand," and go off at them for having an opinion?

There's no competition here and no one will mail you a prize for being rude to people.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

If you read it properly, it talks about how the statistics could be affected by various things and presented in various ways.
I never posted it as a refutation of the statistics, it's just talking about it in less black and white ways.

You certainly gave the impression you were attempting to refute the statistics, anyway, talking about it in less black and white ways is called muddying the water. "Muddying the water" is a way of avoiding two mutually exclusive outcomes. In other words....... DENIAL.

Which essentially was the jist of your posts.

If you're here on these forums, why don't you just try to be polite?

I do try to be polite, but never at the expense of honesty, too many people just simply agree to things that they disagree with in the name of politeness.

Is it really your goal in life to be rude to people?

What sort of a stupid question is that?

To tell them to "bury their heads in the sand," and go off at them for having an opinion?

I didn't "go off" at you for having an opinion, I supported your right to opinion, you have obviously misunderstood me.

There's no competition here and no one will mail you a prize for being rude to people.

Good, stop trying to compete with me.

If I was going to be rude to you, I would've been rude to you, you do really need to grow thicker skin you know.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

If you're here on these forums, why don't you just try to be polite?

And you had the audacity of calling me the thought police???

Please....

 

[Blessedj01]

To be honest I haven't even read what you've posted. I've seen the mass amount of quotes and basically just assumed you're being a bully again. You obviously have a major problem with me and what I've said and you have a major, personal problem with my opinion that Christianity isn't on the decline because "i'm going to church". You obviously won't accept any comment in this thread other than to confirm that you think it's on the decline and you'll obviously take no comment on the statistics presented other than to view them in the worst possible light.

I called you the thought police because you felt the need to tell me that my opinions are just opinions and that I couldn't defeat statistics. You know this is a forum right? If this was statisticsposting.com I might feel more sympathetic to your shutdown of all debate or discussion.

So we'll leave it at that.

 

[madaz]

Interesting....

 

[Sectio Aurea]

To be honest I haven't even read what you've posted

So why bother responding? Obviously you're not here for honest discourse are you?

I've seen the mass amount of quotes and basically just assumed you're being a bully again.

I suggest you stop making assumptions and simply comprehend what I'm conveying to you.

You obviously have a major problem with me and what I've said and you have a major, personal problem with my opinion that Christianity isn't on the decline because "i'm going to church".

I think you are mistaking me for the other poster you were arguing with.

You obviously won't accept any comment in this thread other than to confirm that you think it's on the decline and you'll obviously take no comment on the statistics presented other than to view them in the worst possible light.

Its unfair to expect me to accept an unsupported opinion as refutation. But since you admit your opinion was not offered as refutation its rather moot.
I view the statistics for what they are, facts! Neither sweet nor sour, however you seem to view the statistics as something sour in need of some sugarcoating. I simply cant entertain that tactic of reasoning.

I called you the thought police because you felt the need to tell me that my opinions are just opinions and that I couldn't defeat statistics. You know this is a forum right?

I made that comment because you were getting your knickers in a twist with the other member.
So forums are a place to defeat statistics with opinion??? Please...
I do know this is a forum, a forum is not the medium to refute statistical facts with ones personal opinion.

If this was statisticsposting.com I might feel more sympathetic to your shutdown of all debate or discussion.
So we'll leave it at that.

I welcome all discussion and honest discourse despite your incorrect opinion to the contrary.
Obviously you dont dicern the difference between opinion and fact, muddying the water is a form of denial.

 

[madaz]

It is my personal view that NZ is on the decline in ALL areas not just Christianity.

Yep, this thread is evidence of that, kiwi's bickering with one another.

 

[Alithis]

true.. the decline in attitudes of honesty is staggering.

 

[Galilee63]

First of all, prayers from the heart for the 'Conversion of sinners throughout the world' to Jesus are required; Jesus always listens and answers every person praying His Divine Mercy Chaplet and to Jesus and our Lady Mary Mother of God - our Blessed Virgin Mary - The Holy Rosary for the 'Conversion of sinners'. Jesus and our Heavenly Mother Mary ask me from my heart to pray daily for this cause, for the Holy Souls in Purgatory among others that are in my heart.

Secondly, Holy Rosary cards need to be widely distributed including Jesus' Divine Mercy Chaplets and Holy message books for one to comprehend the following;

+ Jesus is present in His Holy Tabernacle during each Holy Mass conducted.
+ Jesus gives His Blessings, Graces and Gifts further to those of whom receive Jesus in His Blessed Sacrament Eucharist 'from their hearts' as opposed to just only 'from their minds' and/or being distracted.
+ Jesus calls repetitively for repentance of sins from the heart while focussing on Him and for His Divine Mercy Chaplet to be prayed at either 3pm and/or at other times.
+ Jesus asks the world through Saint Faustina to pray many other prayers for other causes (always from the heart).
+ The full consequences for us when Jesus appears here on Earth soon; Jesus has made this quite clear that after having delivered His Divine Mercy Chaplet during the 1930's (which suffered a delay of 20 years+) that soon thereafter, Jesus would be appearing here on Earth again; and to prepare through repentance of sins from the heart, praying Jesus' Divine Mercy Chaplet in order to be taken into Jesus' Divine Mercy itself - ie into Jesus Sacred Heart for protection from God The Father of whom is our just Judge when we cross over and/or Jesus as just Judge when Jesus appears here on earth soon.

Jesus says:
"Know My Child that these prayers are always heard and answered".

Our Heavenly Mother Mary says:
"Further My Children it is important to realise God has called you all as His Apostles, to spread His Glory, His Testimonies through His Apostles My Children. Jesus My Son your Saviour requires souls to spread His New Testament teachings to others of whom have not heard His Word in this generation.

It is not possible for souls to be saved without repentance of sins from a contrite genuine remorseful heart, before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ your Saviour, who will come not as the Merciful Saviour but as just Judge".

"That is all".

 

[Galilee63]

Our Heavenly Mother Mary says:
"Prior to Confession My Children, ask Jesus to call to mind your sins; through your Hearts My Children. This will assist you all in Reconciliation with My Son Jesus your Merciful Saviour".

"That is all"

 

[Alithis]

Our Heavenly Mother Mary says:
"Prior to Confession My Children, ask Jesus to call to mind your sins; through your Hearts My Children. This will assist you all in Reconciliation with My Son Jesus your Merciful Saviour".

"That is all"

since God is without beginning or end he has no mother.
Jesus said do not pray vain repetitions.
when did mary ever say things.
We have no heavenly mother. she would be ashamed you call her that.she is a sinner redeemed as we are.

 

[ihavefoundgod951]

The bible says they will come a famine of faith,I believe this time has come/is coming.

 

[Blessedj01]

Sectio you seem to be confused. I'm here to discuss and express my opinions, not to fight and try to win. If you want that there are plenty of other sections of the forum/other forums where you can go.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

Sectio you seem to be confused.

I'm not confused.

I'm here to discuss<snip>

Dont be so dishonest. You have dismissed most of what I have attempted to discuss with you.

<snip>and express my opinions, not to fight and try to win.

Express your opinions for sure, that is your right, but keep in mind an opinion based on nothing is worth exactly that....nothing.
So dont expect anyone to respect that.

If you want that there are plenty of other sections of the forum/other forums where you can go.

BTW I have noticed you fail to back up your assertions/opinions on other sections of christianforums. Anyway christianforums is not a place to fight.

 

[kiwimac]

Change is often seen as decline but that is not necessarily so.