What Christians must do to keep their salvation

[extraordinary]

Both Judaism and Islam emphasize laws which their people are to obey.
Christianity teaches that the superficial obedience to laws is not nearly enough.
Our entire nature needs to be subdued, and then a new nature implanted within us by the Spirit.
With this new nature we can do what pleases God ...

Hey, Harry, you're not such a messed-up dude after all. Praise God.

Of course, this should be blatantly obvious to every BAC!
This is why God has given them new natures and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Butski, all of the many repetitive warnings and condemnations are given
to try to get His BACs to tow the line, do what is expected, be obedient, and many etcs.

'Cause, if they don't respond, it's curtains for them.
(I always find curtains easier to spell than hell.)

Blessing to thee, the Extra
.

 

[NorrinRadd]

We "keep" our salvation the same way we "obtained" it -- by believing what we heard (Gal. 3), not by "doing good works" or "not doing bad works."

We "lose" our salvation if we make a conscious decision to abandon faith.

 

[biblestudyresources]

If we believe that salvation is through faith, then the only thing that can cause us to lose our salvation is if we lose our faith. I don't think a person who used to believe in Jesus as Saviour will still go to heaven if he one day believes that there is no God.

Since salvation is by faith, it is impossible to lose it any other way. We can't sin our way out of salvation. If we are a genuine believer, when we sin, the Spirit convicts us and after some time we go back to God. If a person who calls himself a Christian continues to sin without remorse, it is not that he sinned his way out of salvation, or faith alone can't save him, but did he have genuine faith in the first place? If someone is your benefactor, would you continue to live a life that grieves that person.

More on this topic: The Necessity of Obedience for Salvation

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven (*)
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven … I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ ” (Matt 7:21-23)
• those who do the will of Father God shall enter the kingdom of heaven (*)
• those who refuse to do the will of Father God are practicing lawlessness
(*) Note-A below shows that Matt 7:21-23 is talking about eternal life!

Okay, what is Father God’s will?

Some NT verses concerning doing God’s will
• “… as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart …” (Ephesians 6:6)
• “… that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12)
• “For this is the will of God, your sanctification … each of you should know how to possess
his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not
know God … For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects
this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.” (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8)
• “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God,
you may receive the promise …” (Hebrews 10:36-38)
• “And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.” (1 John 2:17)

The amazing thing is … because the Scriptures are all inspired by God …
ALL commands and instructions given to NT believers are about doing the will of God.

Examples of God’s will for believers – and doing them is necessary for eternal life
All of the 52 Scriptures below refer specifically to how eternal life can be attained or lost:
• Believe in Jesus Christ and His gospel
John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, Acts 4:12, Acts 16:31, Rom 10:9-10, etc.
• Repent of your sins … Luke 13:3-5, 2 Pet 3:9
• Know God, follow God, be led by the Spirit … John 17:3, John 10:27-28, Rom 8:13-14, Luke 9:23-25
• Obey Jesus’ commandments … Matt 19:16-17, Rom 6:16, Heb 5:9, Rev 22:14-15
• Practice righteousness, i.e. to be righteous in God’s eyes …
Matt 25:45-46, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Rom 6:12-16, Rom 2:5-11, Rom 14:17-18
• Forgive men’s sins and tresspasses against you … Matt 6:14-15, Mark 11:25-26, Matt 18:21-35
• Do not be a slave of sin, do not sin …
Rom 6:16, James 1:14-16, Rev 21:8, Mark 9:43-48, 1 Cor 6:9-10,
Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-6, 2 Pet 2:20-22, Rev 21:27, Rev 22:14-15
• Do not be carnally minded, do not live according to the flesh, crucify the flesh …
Rom 8:1-8, Rom 8:13-14, Gal 6:7-8, Gal 5:19-21
• Lose your worldly life, hate your life in this world, deny yourself …
John 12:25, Mark 8:34-37, Luke 9:23-25, Matt 16:24-26, Luke 14:26-33
• Confess your continuing sins, and repent of them … 2 Cor 7:8-10, 1 John 1:9
• Be holy … Heb 12:14-15, Matt 5:8, Col 1:22-23
• Do not desire to be rich, do not love money … 1 Tim 6:9-10, 1 Tim 6:17-19
• Be an overcomer … Rev 2:10-11, Rev 3:5, Rev 21:7-8
• Endure in your faith until the end of your life …Matt 10:22, Rev 2:10-11, 1 Tim 4:16,
1 Cor 15:1-2, Jude 1:20-21, Heb 10:36-39, 1 Tim 6:9-12, Phil 2:12-16, 1 Pet 1:5-9, Heb 2:1-4

Note: for Rev 3:5 and Rev 21:27 please see Note-B, and for Rev 3:12 and Rev 22:14-15 see Note-C.

31 of the 52 Scriptures above refer specifically to how eternal life can be LOST.
These 31 passages apply to Christians just as well as anyone else!

Note: there are also multitudes of Scriptures that reveal God’s will for us
that do not specifically allude to eternal life or death.

Note-A
Entering the kingdom of God appears to be the opposite of being cast into hell …
• “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom
of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47)
Inheriting the kingdom appears to be for the righteous who gain eternal life …
• “Come, you (righteous) blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you
from the foundation of the world … inasmuch as you (unrighteous) did not do it to one
of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.And these (unrighteous) will go away into
everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matt 25:34-46)
So bottom line, we consider entering the kingdom of God/heaven as gaining eternal life.

Note-B
“And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Rev 20:15)

Note-C
“But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything that defiles, or causes an
abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Rev 21:27)

Interesting note
3 of the many “sin list” passages in the NT contain murder in their long lists of sins.
The following condemnation of murder just serves as an example for all of the sins in the lists.
“… you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15)
.

 

[OzSpen]

We "keep" our salvation the same way we "obtained" it -- by believing what we heard (Gal. 3), not by "doing good works" or "not doing bad works."

We "lose" our salvation if we make a conscious decision to abandon faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We "keep" our salvation the same way we "obtained" it -- by believing what we heard (Gal. 3), not by "doing good works" or "not doing bad works."

We "lose" our salvation if we make a conscious decision to abandon faith.

Please provide verses that support this.

 

[OzSpen]

Please provide verses that support this.

FG2,


Hebrews 6:4-6 (ESV) is clear enough for me:

4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

​

We also have 1 Timothy 1:18-20,

18 This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, 20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme (ESV).
​

So by rejecting faith and a good conscience, some have shipwrecked their faith. Is that too difficult to understand?

Then we have John 3:36,

Whoever believes [continues believing] in the Son has [continues having] eternal life; whoever does not obey [continues not obeying] the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains [continues remaining] on him.
​

What I have inserted in square brackets [ ] indicates the meaning of the Greek present tense. There is only eternal life for those who continue believing in the Son, Jesus, and continuing to remain in him. There is no eternal life for those who continue not to obey the Son.

That's Bible and I cannot arrive at the position you advocate while these verses are in Scripture.

Oz

​

 

[extraordinary]

FG2,

So by rejecting faith and a good conscience, some have shipwrecked their faith.
Is that too difficult to understand?

There is only eternal life for those who continue believing in the Son, Jesus,
and continuing to remain in him.
There is no eternal life for those who continue not to obey the Son.

Yes, continuing in the faith is the overriding necessity to finally receive eternal life.
For salvation is a life-long process, not an instantaneous one.

Now, it is necessary to ascertain really what "in the faith" really entails.
I still continue to think it means the same as "in Christ", but I could be wrong.

Still tryin' to recover ... the Extra
.

 

[Light of the East]

Jesus said, "It is finished."
Paul said, "Whom He justified them He also glorified."

OJSG (Once Justified, Surely Glorified)

What is finished? The Old Covenant is what is finished. That verse has nothing to with anyone's salvation or state before God.

Terrible exegesis.

 

[OzSpen]

Yes, continuing in the faith is the overriding necessity to finally receive eternal life.
For salvation is a life-long process, not an instantaneous one.

Now, it is necessary to ascertain really what "in the faith" really entails.
I still continue to think it means the same as "in Christ", but I could be wrong.

Still tryin' to recover ... the Extra
.

I agree that continuing in the faith is the necessity for receiving final eternal life. That's why I prefer the language of 'perseverance of the saints' rather than 'eternal security'.

The ESV translates 1 Tim 1:19 as 'holding faith' and John 3:36 as continuing to believe.

2 Cor 13:5 uses the language you mentioned of being 'in the faith':

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! (ESV).
​

I find R C H Lenski's commentary on this verse to be helpful:

The Corinthians are to apply the right tests to themselves as to ‘whether they are in the faith.’ We do not see how 'the faith' can be anything but objective faith: the Christian doctrine and the confession which all believers have. The subjective feature is found in the copula and in the preposition 'whether you are in.' One is 'in' the objective faith when he has personal, subjective faith and with his whole heart believes the objective faith. The assertion that 'the faith' is never used objectively must be challenged as being incorrect.
To try and test oneself is simple enough. A few honest questions honestly answered soon reveal where one stands. There is 'the faith' itself, the gospel with its contents. Does my heart receive that, receive it in toto, receive it without change of any kind? Do I reject that or any part of it? Does my heart truly believe this gospel of Christ? Do I trust it? Is my confidence full and strong? (Lenski 1937/1963:1338).
​

Lenski's translation of 2 Cor 13:5 is, 'Start trying your own selves whether you are in the faith, start putting your own selves to the proof! Or do you not fully know your own selves (namely this about yourselves), that Jesus Christ is in you? - unless you, indeed, are disproved! Moreover, I hope that you will know that we on our part are not disproved' (Lenski 1937/1963:1331-1332).

Oz

Works consulted
Lenski, R C H 1937/1963. Commentary on the New Testament: The interpretation of St. Paul's first and second epistles to the Corinthians. Peabody, Mass: Hendrickson Publishers (limited edition by special permission of Augsburg Fortress).

​

 

[biblestudyresources]

To gain salvation, a BAC must be willing to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in removing sin.
God's Spirit will lead him to repent daily of his sins (1 John 1:9), and other important things,
e.g. no BAC will be saved who has unforgiveness or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life.

Reply: Since salvation is not via good works, salvation cannot be lost by sin. A person who is continually unrepentant or unforgiving could lose his salvation not because he sinned but because these things are an indication that his faith may not be genuine.
For example, if a person really believes Jesus forgives him and experiences that forgiveness, he would also be able to forgive people (not to say this is an easy task). If he truly believes Jesus suffered so that he could be save, he would not habitually live a life that is totally obliviously to the fact that sin grieves God.

 

[biblestudyresources]

What is finished? The Old Covenant is what is finished. That verse has nothing to with anyone's salvation or state before God.

Terrible exegesis.

I believe that when Jesus said, "It is finished." He was referring to his work of paying the penalty for our sins. That means, everything has been paid. It's up to us to accept the free gift of salvation by faith.

 

[Bro in Christ]

I believe that when Jesus said, "It is finished." He was referring to his work of paying the penalty for our sins. That means, everything has been paid. It's up to us to accept the free gift of salvation by faith.

John 15:16...... !

 

[OzSpen]

To gain salvation, a BAC must be willing to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in removing sin.
God's Spirit will lead him to repent daily of his sins (1 John 1:9), and other important things,
e.g. no BAC will be saved who has unforgiveness or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life.

Reply: Since salvation is not via good works, salvation cannot be lost by sin. A person who is continually unrepentant or unforgiving could lose his salvation not because he sinned but because these things are an indication that his faith may not be genuine.
For example, if a person really believes Jesus forgives him and experiences that forgiveness, he would also be able to forgive people (not to say this is an easy task). If he truly believes Jesus suffered so that he could be save, he would not habitually live a life that is totally obliviously to the fact that sin grieves God.

I disagree, based on the verses I have provided at #46 and #49 above.

Oz

 

[Light of the East]

I believe that when Jesus said, "It is finished." He was referring to his work of paying the penalty for our sins. That means, everything has been paid. It's up to us to accept the free gift of salvation by faith.

And you would be wrong, sir.

What happened at the exact instant that Jesus expired? The veil of the Temple was torn in two, exposing the Holiest of All. That was the place that the Old Covenant was renewed every year by the presentation of the Yom Kippur sacrifice by the high priest (Lev. 16).

When the veil of the Temple was ripped apart, it exposed the Holiest of All, making it unfit to ever use again for Yom Kippur. "It is finished" has to do with the Old Covenant. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, not your personal sins.

Yes, as the Lamb of God, Jesus is the Sacrifice for our sins. But the idea that He paid "once and forever" and it is all done is heresy. Every time you sin, you have to present that Sacrifice to God to renew your covenant relationship with Him. He has not paid for all your sins in advance of you committing them, and certainly they are not paid for if you refuse to repent and find sin so attractive that you stay in it.

 

[Light of the East]

To gain salvation, a BAC must be willing to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in removing sin.
God's Spirit will lead him to repent daily of his sins (1 John 1:9), and other important things,
e.g. no BAC will be saved who has unforgiveness or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life.

Reply: Since salvation is not via good works, salvation cannot be lost by sin. A person who is continually unrepentant or unforgiving could lose his salvation not because he sinned but because these things are an indication that his faith may not be genuine.
For example, if a person really believes Jesus forgives him and experiences that forgiveness, he would also be able to forgive people (not to say this is an easy task). If he truly believes Jesus suffered so that he could be save, he would not habitually live a life that is totally obliviously to the fact that sin grieves God.

Salvation is indeed by grace, but salvation and eternal life are two entirely different things according to Scripture. Scripture describes eternal life as "the inheritance," and states that we do not have the full inheritance now, but only a "downpayment" (Eph. 1:14).

Eternal life certainly appears to be connected to our good works according to Matthew 25: 31-46, John 5: 28-29, and Romans 2: 5-10. Rev. 20: 11 -15 also mentions good works at the Judgment Seat.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Don't fuss with me about this. It's in the Bible and you have to deal with it.

 

[OzSpen]

Light,

You were responding to Biblestudyresources who stated,

I believe that when Jesus said, "It is finished." He was referring to his work of paying the penalty for our sins. That means, everything has been paid. It's up to us to accept the free gift of salvation by faith.
​

Your reply was:

And you would be wrong, sir.

What happened at the exact instant that Jesus expired? The veil of the Temple was torn in two, exposing the Holiest of All. That was the place that the Old Covenant was renewed every year by the presentation of the Yom Kippur sacrifice by the high priest (Lev. 16).

When the veil of the Temple was ripped apart, it exposed the Holiest of All, making it unfit to ever use again for Yom Kippur. "It is finished" has to do with the Old Covenant. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, not your personal sins.

Yes, as the Lamb of God, Jesus is the Sacrifice for our sins. But the idea that He paid "once and forever" and it is all done is heresy. Every time you sin, you have to present that Sacrifice to God to renew your covenant relationship with Him. He has not paid for all your sins in advance of you committing them, and certainly they are not paid for if you refuse to repent and find sin so attractive that you stay in it.

Three leading evangelical commentators disagree with you.

John 19:30 states, 'When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit' ESV).

This is how three evangelical scholars respond to the meaning of 'It is finished' in their commentaries:

Leon Morris stated:

'In the Greek this is one word, τετελεσται [tetelestai], which is another of John's ambiguous terms. It could mean that Jesus' life was finished. This is part of the meaning, but it is highly improbable that it is the whole meaning. More important is the truth that Jesus' work was finished. he came to do God's work, and this meant dying on the cross for the world's salvation. This mighty work of redemption has now reached its consummation. It is finished' (Morris 1971:815, n. 73).
​

D. A. Carson's understanding was:

In the Greek text, the cry itself is one word, tetelestai (cf. notes on v. 28). As an English translation, It is finished captures only part of the meaning, the part that focuses on completion. Jesus' work was done. But this is no cry of defeat; nor is it merely an announcement of imminent death… The verb teleo from which this form derives denotes the carrying out of a task, and in religious contexts bears the overtone of fulfilling one's religious obligations. Accordingly, in the light of the impending cross, Jesus could earlier cry, 'I have brought you glory on earth by completing (teleiosas; i.e. by accomplishing) the work you gave me to do' (17:4). 'Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them eis telos'—not only 'to the end' but to the full extent mandated by his mission. And so, on the brink of death, Jesus cries out, It is accomplished! (Carson 1991:621, emphasis in original).
​

R. C. H. Lenski wrote:

'It is finished!' Ṭετελεσται, exactly as in v. 28, the perfect [tense] of a completed state, denotes an action brought to its termination, it is like a line that ends in a point ---------------------• Jesus speaks this word to his Father. He makes his report to the father who sent him. Uttered with a loud voice, it is also intended for all men to hear. Recorded now in Scripture, it still rings out to all the world. Since the whole passion and death of Jesus were intended for us, why set up the contention that this conclusion is intended only for him and not also for us? The verb has no subject. What is it that is here brought to an end? Some think that Jesus has in mind his suffering, which, of course, in a way is true and quite obvious. But this cry cannot mean that Jesus is thinking only of himself and is glad that his pain now ceases. Some think of the ancient prophecies and their fulfillment, which, of course, in a way is also true (v. 28). This is better than the previous view, yet it still is indefinite, and other prophecies are still unfulfilled, namely the resurrection and the exaltation. Many are satisfied to say that the work or task of Jesus is concluded, or even that no further duty holds Jesus to life; this is equally indefinite. A word so important cannot be explained by so general an interpretation. The death of Jesus finishes His redemptive work, the work of reconciliation and atonement. This specific work is now brought to a close. The Lamb of God has made His great sacrifice for the world. It is this that is now done. Our great Substitute has paid the great price of ransom, paid it to the uttermost farthing. 'It is finished' indeed! Others will yet preach and teach, and Jesus will work through them; as the Kong on David's throne his regal work will continue forever; but the redemptive shedding of His blood, done once for all, is finished and stands as finished forever. Heb. 7:27; 9:12, 26; Rom. 6:10 (Lenski 1943:1309).
​

Sincerely in Christ, Oz

Works consulted
Carson, D A 1991. The Gospel according to John. Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press / Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

Lenski, R C H 1943. Commentary on the New Testament: The Interpretation of St. John's Gospel. Peabody, Mass: Hendrickson Publishers (assigned by Augsburg Fortress).

Morris, L 1971. The New International Commentary on the New Testament: The Gospel according to John. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

 

[OzSpen]

And you would be wrong, sir.

What happened at the exact instant that Jesus expired? The veil of the Temple was torn in two, exposing the Holiest of All. That was the place that the Old Covenant was renewed every year by the presentation of the Yom Kippur sacrifice by the high priest (Lev. 16).

When the veil of the Temple was ripped apart, it exposed the Holiest of All, making it unfit to ever use again for Yom Kippur. "It is finished" has to do with the Old Covenant. THAT is what Jesus was talking about, not your personal sins.

Yes, as the Lamb of God, Jesus is the Sacrifice for our sins. But the idea that He paid "once and forever" and it is all done is heresy. Every time you sin, you have to present that Sacrifice to God to renew your covenant relationship with Him. He has not paid for all your sins in advance of you committing them, and certainly they are not paid for if you refuse to repent and find sin so attractive that you stay in it.

Let’s check out a couple of Scriptures to see if this perspective is on target or is it promoting another theology. Two verses come to mind:

Hebrews 9:26-28,

24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him (ESV, emphasis added).

This is extremely clear:

• Christ appeared in the presence of God himself;
• Jesus did not offer himself repeatedly as the high priest did when he entered the high places every year with blood other than his own;
• Jesus did not suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world;
• Jesus’ sacrifice at the end of the ages was to put away sin by His own sacrifice;
  
• Christ has been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many;
• When Jesus appears a second time, it will NOT be to deal with sin.

But there is more in 1 Peter 3:18, ‘For Christ also suffered[1] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit’ (ESV, emphasis added).

So the idea that Jesus paid for sin, ‘once and forever’, is not heresy, but it is orthodox, biblical Christianity.

Oz
[1] Some manuscripts have ‘died’.

 

[Light of the East]

Let’s check out a couple of Scriptures to see if this perspective is on target or is it promoting another theology. Two verses come to mind:

Hebrews 9:26-28,

This is extremely clear:

• Christ appeared in the presence of God himself;
• Jesus did not offer himself repeatedly as the high priest did when he entered the high places every year with blood other than his own;
• Jesus did not suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world;
• Jesus’ sacrifice at the end of the ages was to put away sin by His own sacrifice;
  
• Christ has been offered ONCE to bear the sins of many;
• When Jesus appears a second time, it will NOT be to deal with sin.

But there is more in 1 Peter 3:18, ‘For Christ also suffered[1] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit’ (ESV, emphasis added).

So the idea that Jesus paid for sin, ‘once and forever’, is not heresy, but it is orthodox, biblical Christianity.

Oz
[1] Some manuscripts have ‘died’.

No, sir, it is rank heresy. You have cherry-picked these verses without any reference whatsoever to the CONTEXT in which they are written. I will give you the CONTEXT. Whether you accept the truth is entirely up to you.

Hebrews 7-10 speaks of Jesus filling the role of the Great High Priest, taking over once and forever the role of high priest which God established on earth in Leviticus.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Okay, we see that Jesus is the surety of a better covenant. What covenant would that be? It must be the New Covenant? And why do we think that? Because the Old Covenant is fulfilled and made better. Heb 8:13 says that it is ready to "pass away."

And now we see exactly what kind of priest Jesus is:

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

This is absolutely CRITICAL to a proper understanding of all of the verses that the Evangelicals CONSTANTLY GET WRONG. Let me say it loudly so that there is no misunderstanding.

JESUS IS A HIGH PRIEST! THE GREAT HIGH PRIEST!

Why is this so important? Because in Hebrews we see that Jesus is performing the office of the high priest, and that office has NOTHING -- NOTHING -- to do with personal sins.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Jesus is Mediator of the New (and better) covenant. Every year, the high priest of national Israel would enter into the Holiest of All and offer the sacrifice to renew (or mediate) the covenant between God and His people. This covenant had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (I can't say this often enough) with the personal sins of the people. It was corporate - or for the nation - and made Israel the special nation among all which was in covenant with God. When the high priest came out from the Holiest of All, it was a sign from God that the sacrifice was accepted and the nation was in covenant with God (and safe, if they kept the covenant requirements) for another year.

The New Covenant is with the Church. The Church has replaced Israel (Matt. 21: 33-46) as the "new nation." Jesus offers a permanent and never to be replaced Yom Kippur in the "tabernacle not made with hands" (Heb 9:11)

Again, how do we know this?

Because IN CONTEXT, this section on Christ's Great High Priesthood speaks of the yearly sacrifice, which was Yom Kippur.

Heb 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

That is Yom Kippur being spoken of. Let me say it one more time:

YOM KIPPUR DOES NOT PAY FOR PERSONAL SINS!!!!

The Isrealite did something different for his personal sins.


Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

This is where you make your mistake. Evangelicals gleefully rip Heb. 9:26 out of contest and say "See? SEE??? Once!! One sacrifice! What don't you dumb papists get about that?"

To which my answer is this: "Go back to verse 25. What sacrifice is being spoken of? What sacrifice was made by the high priest once a year? What did it accomplish?"

The answer to this question is, of course, only Yom Kippur was done once a year and it accomplished the renewal of the coroporate (or national) covenant with God.

One more time:

IT HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PERSONAL SINS!!! NOTHING!!!


Did that sink in?

 

[Light of the East]

There were two priesthoods spoken of in the Old Covenant:

The Levitical, or mediatorial priesthood, in which the sons of Aaron offered pigeons, turtledoves, wheat and cakes, calves, bulls, sheep and other offerings for the PERSONAL SINS of the people.

The one who had sin would bring the offering appropriate and ordered for that sin, lay it on the altar before the priest. He would put his hand on it, symbolically transferring his guilt to the animal, which was then slain.

This was how personal sins were taken care of. It is interesting to note that in the offering of animals, there are parts where it is mentioned that the animal was then to be divided up --a portion for the priest and the rest for the sinner and his family TO TAKE HOME AND EAT!

Hmmmmmmmmm....they ATE the sin offering. Sound familiar??


The high priest was the other priesthood. He offered a special offering called Yom Kippur. This was the most holy offering and most holy day of the year, for it determined whether or not national Israel would continue as God's special people as a nation. Only the high priest could offer this, and only on one specific day during the year. Entrance during any other time or by anyone else was promised to result in instant death. God was not fooling around!

Your three Evangelicals....ALL EVANGELICALS, in fact.....miss this important distinction between the two sacrifices. They do this because they approach the scriptures with presuppositions. What they do then is to ignore certain verses, cherry pick others, and proof text the Bible, bending the verses they find to meet their pre-ordained theology.

This is not honest Bible study at all. And I certainly don't have any respect for anyone who approached the Scriptures in this manner. We are to take the "whole counsel of God," (CONTEXT) instead of picking out a verse here and there and then building a whole theology around it.

Nice try. You're wrong. And you need a sacrifice for your sins. THE Sacrifice -- which is the Eucharist.

 

[extraordinary]

1 Peter 3:18, ‘For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,
that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit’
(ESV, emphasis added).

So the idea that Jesus paid for sin, ‘once and forever’, is not heresy,
but it is orthodox, biblical Christianity.

A lot of excellent posts recently!

Oz, cannot you see that everything in this passage could mean ...
Christ washed away one's PAST sins at the moment he/she becomes a BAC.

And the person has entered into the new covenant (belief in Jesus ... and obedience to Him).

All of those incredibly unpopular warning verses are to help BACs stay IN the new covenant.

And those who are being led by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh, etc.
are living/walking "in Christ".

This, of course, coincides with "It is finished", etc.

Jesus came to open the door for some humans to gain access to the Father and heaven.
And those who really KNOW Father God and Jesus Christ have eternal life (John 17:2).
If one really "knows" Them, he/she will co-operate in being fully sanctified unto holiness.
Someone (not so recently) said that without holiness no one will see the Lord.
.