America Was Founded On Christian Principles

[TheBear]

I've heard that sentiment for most of my life. But, what does it really mean? What are the principles, which are exclusive to Christianity, on which America was founded?

 

[Creech]

Personally, I think the United States was founded based on a liberal egalitarian idea.

 

[TheBear]

Personally, I think the United States was founded based on a liberal egalitarian idea.

Thanks, but that's off topic here. In this thread, I want to discuss the meme of America being founded on Christian principles.

 

[South Bound]

I've heard that sentiment for most of my life. But, what does it really mean? What are the principles, which are exclusive to Christianity, on which America was founded?

Why do they have to be exclusive to Christianity in order to be Christian?

 

[Arcangl86]

Why do they have to be exclusive to Christianity in order to be Christian?

I'm not the OP, so I don't know if this is what he is getting at, but many use the excuse we are founded on Christian principles to justify being a nation where other faith traditions, or even lack of faith are considered suspect at best.

 

[South Bound]

I'm not the OP, so I don't know if this is what he is getting at, but many use the excuse we are founded on Christian principles to justify being a nation where other faith traditions, or even lack of faith are considered suspect at best.

No, using the "find all posts by this user" feature, we see that this is a big thing with him.

In each case, it has nothing to do with "other faith traditions", but with historical revisionism and the desire to undermine the Christian philosophical foundation of our republic.

To illustrate this, I predict that, within his next two or three posts, he will cite a sentence from the Treaty of Tripoli to "prove" that no Christian philosophy influenced the Founders in any way, in spite of their own writings citing Christian influence.

 

[drjean]

I believe the foundation was upon Judeo-Christian principles. Our founding fathers were believers in God and Christ Jesus, and the principles laid out in the Bible were foundational to them.

The present meaning of "Judeo-Christian" regarding ethics first appeared in print on July 27, 1939, with the phrase "the Judaeo-Christian scheme of morals" in the New English Weekly.[9] The term gained much currency in the 1940s, promoted by groups which evolved into the National Conference of Christians and Jews, to fight antisemitism by expressing a more inclusive idea of American values rather than just Christian or Protestant.[10][11] By 1952 Dwight Eisenhower looked to the Founding Fathers of 1776 to say:
"all men are endowed by their Creator." In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men created equal.[12]

Since America was found because of Columbus looking for a place for the Jewish People to call home, it fits with the antisemitism concept.



The majority of the Christian Bible is, in fact, Jewish scripture, and it is used as moral and spiritual teaching material throughout the Christian world. The prophets, patriarchs, and heroes of the Jewish scripture are also known in Christianity, which uses the Jewish text as the basis for its understanding of historic Judeo-Christian figures such as Abraham, Elijah, and Moses. As a result, a vast amount of Jewish and Christian teachings are based on a common sacred text.

---wiki

 

[theophilus777]

I've heard that sentiment for most of my life. But, what does it really mean? What are the principles, which are exclusive to Christianity, on which America was founded?

Your emphasized part is a strawman.

 

[Arcangl86]

Since America was found because of Columbus looking for a place for the Jewish People to call home, it fits with the antisemitism concept.

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about?

 

[theophilus777]

Since America was found because of Columbus looking for a place for the Jewish People to call home, it fits with the antisemitism concept.

Wait, what??

Columbus wanted a new trade route to the spices of the Orient.

If you know of some secret plans to also ship European Jews there to work as slaves harvesting said spices, or something like that, you should divulge what you know.

Meanwhile, he called Native Americans "Indians" because Columbus thought he had in fact landed in India. (Bypassing 2 continents and the largest ocean on the planet)

 

[keith99]

Why do they have to be exclusive to Christianity in order to be Christian?

Actually going as far as exclusive is going a bit far. That would exclude everything Christianity has in common with Judaism.

That would mean if the Bill of Rights were instead the 10 commandments that would not count.

But I think the challenge still works if one just says reasonably unique and specific to Judeo-Christian thought.

 

[theophilus777]

Actually going as far as exclusive is going a bit far. That would exclude everything Christianity has in common with Judaism.

That would mean if the Bill of Rights were instead the 10 commandments that would not count.

But I think the challenge still works if one just says reasonably unique and specific to Judeo-Christian thought.

No it doesn't. Almost every religion on the planet holds to the same ideals. To claim it needs to be unique to Judeo-Christian thought is pretense.

 

[South Bound]

But I think the challenge still works if one just says reasonably unique and specific to Judeo-Christian thought.

Again, why? Why isn't Christian, "Christian" enough?

For instance, if the Founders said, "The Bible forbids stealing. Therefore, because we believe the Bible is the law of God and is the surest way to amity with God and good will among men, we're going to make a law against stealing", why do we then have to prove that no other religion prohibits stealing in order to show that the Founders based their prohibition against stealing on the Bible?

To be honest, it reminds me of the atheists on another message board I post on, who say things like "show me evidence, but don't show me this evidence, this evidence, or that evidence" in order to paint Christian responses into a narrow box.

 

[TheBear]

Can we get past the atheist icon, the second-guessing of motives, the mind-reading, and just answer the question? Thanks.

What are the Christian principles on which America was founded on?

 

[Creech]

Actually going as far as exclusive is going a bit far. That would exclude everything Christianity has in common with Judaism.

That would mean if the Bill of Rights were instead the 10 commandments that would not count.

But I think the challenge still works if one just says reasonably unique and specific to Judeo-Christian thought.

Personally I have never been comfortable with the term "Judeo-Christian." Many religions, and especially Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, have much in common with each other, but also pretty large differences. I believe saying Judeo-Christian can be as fair as saying Islamo-Christian, but neither make too much sense.

 

[South Bound]

Can we get past the atheist icon, the second-guessing of motives, the mind-reading, and just answer the question? Thanks.

What are the Christian principles on which America was founded on?

Answer the question first: Why does it have to be "exclusively Christian" in order to be Christian?

 

[Grizzly]

I wonder if it would be interesting to look at the issue backward. Which "American Principles" are we referring to? My first reaction is "The Bill of Rights". Those could be argued that they contain American Principles. Which of these are grounded in Christianity? Free Speech? Right to bear arms? Protections against unreasonable searches and seizures? The right to redress the government? Freedom of Religion? Are any of these (or others I have not mentioned) grounded in Christianity?

 

[AirPo]

Answer the question first: Why does it have to be "exclusively Christian" in order to be Christian?

Because otherwise it would be attributed to whatever other previous values that Christians copied.

 

[keith99]

Again, why? Why isn't Christian, "Christian" enough?

For instance, if the Founders said, "The Bible forbids stealing. Therefore, because we believe the Bible is the law of God and is the surest way to amity with God and good will among men, we're going to make a law against stealing", why do we then have to prove that no other religion prohibits stealing in order to show that the Founders based their prohibition against stealing on the Bible?

To be honest, it reminds me of the atheists on another message board I post on, who say things like "show me evidence, but don't show me this evidence, this evidence, or that evidence" in order to paint Christian responses into a narrow box.

Fine. Document this occurred.

BUT don't say that because stealing is illegal in the U.S. the U.S. was founded on Christian Principles when just about every civilization that has ever existed has the same prohibition.

 

[South Bound]

Because otherwise it would be attributed to whatever other previous values that Christians copied.

And how do you know they copied it from another religion when they cite the Christian scriptures as their source?

When did they cite the Christian scriptures as their source?

That's not an answer to the question I asked you.

Fine. Document this occurred.

When somebody says "For instance, if..." that means that they're not recounting an historical event to you, but merely stating a premise for explanation's sake.

BUT don't say that because stealing is illegal in the U.S. the U.S. was founded on Christian Principles when just about every civilization that has ever existed has the same prohibition.

First of all, that's not even remotely what I said.

Second, so what if other civilizations had such a prohibition. We're talking about America and whether or not its founding philosophy was influenced by Christianity.

I just realized the First Amendment not only does not support the idea that the U.S. is a Christian country it directly opposed at least 2 of the 10 commandments.

And here we have our first categorization fallacy.

You're conflating being influenced by Christianity with being a Christian theocracy.

It says you can have any God you like and that you may say what you will, including taking the Lords name in vain.

Deuteronomy 30 tells us that God gives us the choice to follow Him or not. Why shouldn't the 1st Amendment do the same?