Happy 4th!

Protoevangel

Smash the Patriarchy!
Feb 6, 2004
11,662
1,248
Eugene, OR
✟33,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
While we enjoy our charred animal flesh (my favorite!), alcohol, and explosives:

10356328_10203755527436115_5069631904826548946_n.jpg

It is good that we are free to protest hypocrisy, cruelty, and slaughter without fear of reprisal. Our real test will be to continue speak for our homeless and pre-born brothers and sisters when we no longer have the expectation of safety.
 
Last edited:
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,272
Central California
✟274,069.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Happy 4th to you, too, Dan! While the "charred animal flesh" is both sad and, in this mass food production disgusting modern setup we have, super inhumane and unhealthy, dude, I still wish you a happy day. At my house we'll celebrate in other ways. But the sentiment's the same!

While I don't think we've really lived in a "real" republic for about 75 years or more now, at least pretending we live in the America of the Founding Fathers and Revolution sounds good! ROFL!
 
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,272
Central California
✟274,069.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I hate to be the fly in the ointment, but do any of you get a little less enthusiastic about these holidays and overall patriotism as the years go by? I look at Bush and how much insane power he gave to the Executive Branch, getting us in wars we didn't need, drones spying on us, the NSA spying on its own people, mass corruption in Washington to a stinking degree with smoke-filled room pork and lobbyist pandering, big business ruining America and government ruining America,etc.

Then there is Obama, who criticized Bush for excesses with the Executive powers now he is doing the same dang thing right and left, most recently with the immigration situation. He has fought hard for an awareness campaign for sodomites and has created a country with openly-gay military cohabitation. He has fought for "transgenders" and defending the status quo on abortion and contraception, and the guy hasn't a clue about Christian morality. He has stuck his nose into every facet of American life from Arizona politics to Trayvon Martin, on and on. He is just as imperial a president as Bush.

We have no morality in this nation, live in a post-Christian age, and consumerism and pansexuality rule the day. It is a hook-up culture rife with shallowness, and our entertainment by and large is quasi-inappropriate contentographic.

We are a violent culture. The most violent in the world. We use GMO's, screw up the environment, torture people, spy on anyone and everyone, and a handshake and a promise no longer mean much of anything.

So while everyone is out there shooting off fireworks, I wonder if these thoughts cross their minds? Everything the Founding Fathers fought for is pretty much dead and we live in a bad clone of our former selves. The 4th of July means less each year that the principles that formed this nation are no longer in existence.

Does anyone else feel frustrated like I do about this stuff? It seems like the 4th of July is just a cheesy excuse for people to light fireworks and barbecue. The principles are pretty much out of sight, out of mind, are they not?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Dang..

You went there. But it's true enough in regards to how much there are things within American culture NOT worth celebrating - the context of what Jeremiah Wright actually said is often ignored when it comes to his sermon and why he was doing the same thing other patriots of the U.S have noted. Du Bois shared the same sentiments when it came to patriot loving their own country enough to speak against it...

And Fredrick Douglass did note at the time that the 4th of July to a Slave (or someone America refused to acknowledge) had a RADICALLY different meaning than it did to others. Specifically, Frederick Douglass, argued why it was odd for him to celebrate the 4th of July...for slavery was still happening and those so called rights did not apply to him or other slaves---and many of the Founding Fathers did nothing to fight against it or for the equality of blacks. The same would apply to Native Americans celebrating the 4th of July despite where they are not acknowledged. For his actual speech on the issue, one can go here and here. As said in Frederick Douglass’ July 5, 1852, Fourth of July speech, , in light of his past experiences as a slave:
“What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July? I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.

Go where you may, search where you will, roam through all the monarchies and despotisms of the Old World, travel through South America, search out every abuse and when you have found the last, lay your facts by the side of the every-day practices of this nation, and you will say with me that, for revolting barbarity and shameless hypocrisy, America reigns without a rival.”

To slaves - or the nations where we've exported a lot of mess globally via imperialism, colonialism, terrorism (including within our own borders), very bad morals in regards to how we treat others economically/morally and many other things, we do have a lot in common with those who bring bondage rather than true freedom.

Happy 4th of July Regardless, of course, for all the things God has done in our nation despite its many flaws and the problem of American Exceptionalism. For the soldiers who did fight for us to even be able to have the freedom of conversation we have currently and to be able to have the opportunity of fixing wrongs that were done.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,394
5,011
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟432,491.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I don't think either a "mindless" (ie, indifferent to evils) patriotism OR a "Let's mourn on this day that speaks of evil" attitude to be right. We SHOULD love our country. Enough to both praise AND criticize it, but especially to be grateful for its being at all, for the good and despite the bad, because it formed us, our language, experience of climate, arrangement of neighbors and collection of wonders, as well its history, and both the prices paid for the good and a determination not to let the bad be repeated.

Patriotism is a good thing, not a bad thing, as long as it is not brainless.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

rusmeister

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian
Dec 9, 2005
10,394
5,011
Eastern Europe
Visit site
✟432,491.00
Country
Montenegro
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
brainless patriotism is just nationalism. that's the bad "ism" in my opinion.

I think there is such a thing as good nationalism.

Reading Chesterton taught me to think about words. What IS "nationalism"? Its use as an assumption of a bad thing is not thought, but rather rhetoric imposed on us in place of thought. The word should obviously mean "the approval of nations".

Both nations and patriots are good things. I'm just saying we should define these terms, not assume them; iow, think about what these things are, consciously.
 
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,272
Central California
✟274,069.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I agree. I told Kate tonight, as she wanted me to drive she and the kids all over town looking at fireworks, that all these folks walking around watching the fireworks, to some degree, remind me of the zombies in Dawn of the Dead, the 1978 flick. In the movie a group of four human survivors fly in a helicopter escaping the zombie apocalypse and they land on the roof of a super sized mall. They break into the mall and there are zombies walking aimlessly around. Then there are zombies outside the mall desperately wanting to break in. Francine, the lone female character, asks the guys, "why are they here? What are they doing walking around? What are they looking for?" Peter says, "They're after the place. They don't know why; they just remember. Remember that they want to be in here. They're not after us. They're after the place."

As the movie progresses, they take subtle digs at consumerism and the obsession with material gain and the keeping up with the joneses mentality of Americans.

I think it was an interesting concept---the zombies just remember that the mall mattered to them. They didn't crowd over to the Church or to their homes or any place of depth, they went to the mall...an instinct buried in them from before they died---$$$$$

I told Kate tonight that these people walking around look like zombies. They seem clueless. They don't know about the Revolution, the motivations behind it, the aftermath with the Articles of Confederation or the formation of the United States, the Bill of Rights, Constitution, or the concepts of liberty. They just feel this pull, like the zombies felt a pull to the mall, these folks feel a pull toward the fire works, that there is "something" good there...something.

I used to get that feeling when I watched people at Mass as a Catholic. They mostly are uneducated, have zero clue what the Church teaches, but there is just "something" good there...they just migrate there like the zombies with some deep-seeded herd mentality.

It's important to be patriotic to some degree, but I think if we were true patriots, we'd care more about issues facing our morality, care more about cleaning up the country with our faith, we'd speak out more, and we'd be fed up with the propaganda and false messiahs like Obama. I think this country is a mess. It's a nation of takers and moochers mostly. And, like the zombies, they just migrate to the newest 'in' thing.

I wish we could get up the enthusiasm for exploding fireworks targeted at more impactful issues...

I don't think either a "mindless" (ie, indifferent to evils) patriotism OR a "Let's mourn on this day that speaks of evil" attitude to be right. We SHOULD love our country. Enough to both praise AND criticize it, but especially to be grateful for its being at all, for the good and despite the bad, because it formed us, our language, experience of climate, arrangement of neighbors and collection of wonders, as well its history, and both the prices paid for the good and a determination not to let the bad be repeated.

Patriotism is a good thing, not a bad thing, as long as it is not brainless.
 
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Angels Team
Feb 10, 2013
14,081
7,987
28
Nebraska
✟235,233.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
I agree. I told Kate tonight, as she wanted me to drive she and the kids all over town looking at fireworks, that all these folks walking around watching the fireworks, to some degree, remind me of the zombies in Dawn of the Dead, the 1978 flick. In the movie a group of four human survivors fly in a helicopter escaping the zombie apocalypse and they land on the roof of a super sized mall. They break into the mall and there are zombies walking aimlessly around. Then there are zombies outside the mall desperately wanting to break in. Francine, the lone female character, asks the guys, "why are they here? What are they doing walking around? What are they looking for?" Peter says, "They're after the place. They don't know why; they just remember. Remember that they want to be in here. They're not after us. They're after the place."

As the movie progresses, they take subtle digs at consumerism and the obsession with material gain and the keeping up with the joneses mentality of Americans.

I think it was an interesting concept---the zombies just remember that the mall mattered to them. They didn't crowd over to the Church or to their homes or any place of depth, they went to the mall...an instinct buried in them from before they died---$$$$$

I told Kate tonight that these people walking around look like zombies. They seem clueless. They don't know about the Revolution, the motivations behind it, the aftermath with the Articles of Confederation or the formation of the United States, the Bill of Rights, Constitution, or the concepts of liberty. They just feel this pull, like the zombies felt a pull to the mall, these folks feel a pull toward the fire works, that there is "something" good there...something.

I used to get that feeling when I watched people at Mass as a Catholic. They mostly are uneducated, have zero clue what the Church teaches, but there is just "something" good there...they just migrate there like the zombies with some deep-seeded herd mentality.

It's important to be patriotic to some degree, but I think if we were true patriots, we'd care more about issues facing our morality, care more about cleaning up the country with our faith, we'd speak out more, and we'd be fed up with the propaganda and false messiahs like Obama. I think this country is a mess. It's a nation of takers and moochers mostly. And, like the zombies, they just migrate to the newest 'in' thing.

I wish we could get up the enthusiasm for exploding fireworks targeted at more impactful issues...

Very, very well said.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,469
20,025
41
Earth
✟1,455,676.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I think there is such a thing as good nationalism.

Reading Chesterton taught me to think about words. What IS "nationalism"? Its use as an assumption of a bad thing is not thought, but rather rhetoric imposed on us in place of thought. The word should obviously mean "the approval of nations".

Both nations and patriots are good things. I'm just saying we should define these terms, not assume them; iow, think about what these things are, consciously.

I meant nationalism in the "my country is better than yours by default, our flaws are not as bad as yours, and our virtues are far greater" kinda thinking.
 
Upvote 0