Anti-Catholic Mission Trip

[squint]

It's different when they show their Christianity by action. When they show their lack of charity by claiming Catholics as non-Christian or atheist, that's another story.

RCCers are no different with their lists of demands.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Our church supports 14 missionaries and their families. There is a room in our church where pictures of the missionaries and their families are displayed, along with a brief bio, a list of prayer needs, etc. Beautiful pictures of happy families, smiling children.

And then, among those pictures, there are two frames with only a construction paper silhouette. That's because they're in Muslim countries sharing the Gospel with the Muslims and, if their identities were known, they or their families could be killed.

If I ever have the honor of meeting them, I'll be sure to pass your post along to them.

Our Church supports thousands and thousands of missionaries. We were in Africa dealing with AIDS before it was cool. We helped fight all the plagues in Europe.
Oh, and those missionaries? Not funded by the Church, but by charitable donations.
And you should see us in Haiti and South America...

 

[simonthezealot]

It's a semi-pelagian gospel of course monergists are going to witness to synergists.
Why the need to call them bigots and such?
If you understood truth in a situation and saw another person seeing it differently is that not love to share what you know?

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Because, while Catholics may be Christians, Catholic Churches teach horrible theology.

Why would someone who believes they're saved by grace and that Christ's promises that their salvation is safe in His hands want to go to a church that teaches you must perform an endless string of rituals and good works and then, you might get lucky and catch God on a good day and be saved?

Would you really want your Catholic Church to be full of people who don't adhere to Catholic doctrine?



The reason I said "assuming there are not already established churches" is that there may already established churches. In some cases, there aren't.

For instance, when we planted our church, all of the churches in our area were either Catholic, Word of Faith, or Emergent. There was no church for Reformed Bible believing Christians.

((NOTE TO HAMMSTER: PLEASE NOTE, I DID NOT SAY "CATHOLICS, WORD OF FAITH, OR EMERGENT" ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, ONLY THAT THEY DO NOT OFFER A WELCOMING PLACE FOR CHRISTIANS WHO ARE REFORMED OR AFFIRM BIBLICAL THEOLOGY.))

Our church exploded because Reformed believers in our area were hungry for a church they didn't have to drive an hour to get to.

Like your Church teaches without error.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Again, Catholics are the ones who are always telling us that we can't be assured of our salvation. So, if we can't be assured of our salvation, how do you know those Christians don't need to hear the Gospel?

Question is...which Gospel? The one that preaches the entire Truth? Including John 6, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist? Including Matthew 16:16-21, where Peter is made the leader of the Christian Church? Including Luke 1-2 where Mary is full of Grace? John 17 where Christ prays for unity in His Church?

 

[Root of Jesse]

If more than 80% of Italians were actually RC in practise as well as in name, that would indeed be a problem with the statement.
However, if that was the case, we'd see an entirely different Italy.

Also, GoingByzantine.....could you please answer the question I asked you?

And if only 10% of Catholics were actively participating in the Life of the Church, we'd see an entirely different world.

 

[South Bound]

Like your Church teaches without error.

Sure, our church is capable of teaching error, just like the Catholic Church.

The difference is that we have oversight that catches errors and corrects them.

Kind of hard for Catholics to correct the Catholic Church when the Catholic Church teaches that it is infallible and not to be questioned.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Sure, our church is capable of teaching error, just like the Catholic Church.

The difference is that we have oversight that catches errors and corrects them.

Kind of hard for Catholics to correct the Catholic Church when the Catholic Church teaches that it is infallible and not to be questioned.

That's not even close to the Catholic definition of infallible. But I do agree they have some issues. Just like all of us working out our salvation.
I believe their biggest fault is trying to explain that which cannot be explained. But I must hand it to them on their record keeping. They have that down pat.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So, your answer to my question is: "Yes, I'd be just as offended in that case"?
How many of the RCs here share that sentiment?

I'd be offended by anyone who automatically considers Catholics to be non-Christian. Or to automatically consider that Catholics have little or no knowledge of the Gospel.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I'd be offended by anyone who automatically considers Catholics to be non-Christian. Or to automatically consider that Catholics have little or no knowledge of the Gospel.

Brother, That would offend me as I would feel in my heart that I had heard a lie.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I know.
And cafeteria Catholics.
And how the Catholic Church ought not be defined by the people who say that they are Catholic, but by those who are in full accord with the pope, bishops and teaching of the Church.

What I am wondering is whether or not the OP poster finds it preferable that the 'Christmas and Easter Catholics' of Rome remain Catholic in that way, or if it would be a better thing to have 'redneck, American patriot' missionaries sent to Rome to evangelize them into something more passionate than what they have now?

What would be better would be for them to be motivated to know their own faith, rather than diverting to some portion of that faith.

My own sense of this missionary is that he is possibly not even a conservative, but he probably would be seen as such, and as such, there is often a very visceral and latent disdain among many Catholics and EO against those who fall under the label 'American Christian Right", aka moral majority types. (Danger on the right, danger on the right).

In many ways, poor catechesis is to blame for the lack of people knowing their faith. People who are born American often don't know as much about their own country as those who become American. Sometimes we don't know what we have until we lose it.

 

[South Bound]

That's not even close to the Catholic definition of infallible.

How do you know, since I didn't define it?

Then you don't preach the Gospel, by your own admission.

No, we don't preach the Gospel to your approval. But we really don't care because you're not the one who told us to go preach the Gospel, or the one who's approval we care about.

So, it doesn't say that Jesus says "I am the Bread of Life."

Sure, it does. It just doesn't say that the priest says a few magic words and turns Jesus into a piece of bread.

It doesn't say "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"

Sure it does, just like it says that all born again believers are full of grace.

It doesn't say "You are Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my Church"

Sure it does. It just says that Peter's confession is the "this rock" Jesus is speaking of, not Peter.

It doesn't say "I pray Father, that they may be one, as you and I are One."

Sure it does, but that's a prayer for the Church, not the Gospel.

The question isn't what these verses say, but what you would have us believe they "really mean".

 

[Root of Jesse]

You say that as if you know nothing about what was said in the video about the people not attending church at all since their infancy.

do the "details" not matter when one is attacking non-Catholics?

It would be better for them to learn what they don't know about their faith than to assume that SDA's have it 'right'. This is the responsibility of parents and pastors, not people you don't even know. Stick to those who have never heard the Gospel.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Even the Pope complains about the problem.

But if you have some research that shows that 95% are regular attending devout observant etc - rather than "never attending" -- please benefit all of us by providing actual data in favor of your preference.

in Christ,

Bob

Where did I spout that 95% of Catholics regularly attend Mass? Answer: I didn't. I just know that all baptized Catholics have 'darkened' the Catholic Church at least once in their life. Usually, at least three or four times-their own baptism, their first Holy Communion, their Confirmation, their wedding day, and the baptism of their own children. And Christmas and Easter.

 

[Root of Jesse]

RCCers are no different with their lists of demands.

It's a different thing to disagree on doctrine, than to claim that someone who's Catholic is "atheist" or non-Christian.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No, we don't preach Catholic propaganda and false doctrines.

Then you don't preach the Gospel, by your own admission. Or are you saying that the Gospel doesn't include the passages I asked about?

So, it doesn't say that Jesus says "I am the Bread of Life."
It doesn't say "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"
It doesn't say "You are Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my Church"
It doesn't say "I pray Father, that they may be one, as you and I are One."

 

[Root of Jesse]

Brother, That would offend me as I would feel in my heart that I had heard a lie.

Amen, sister.

 

[squint]

It's a different thing to disagree on doctrine, than to claim that someone who's Catholic is "atheist" or non-Christian.

or heretic

 

[Albion]

You say that as if you know nothing about what was said in the video about the people not attending church at all since their infancy.

do the "details" not matter when one is attacking non-Catholics?

Of course. What we're hearing now is just the work of the tag team that comes in to derail any thread that doesn't flatter the RCC.

First it was that pointless interjection about Muslims, of all things!, and then the "double dog dare you" diversion. It's best just to keep the subject and not let these things be distracting.

 

[tz620q]

A lot of evangelism took place that way - and a lot of Christians today trace their current Christian experience back to relatives/ancestors that were first converted via the evangelistic crusades.

And it was a great blessing to this country; but you are talking about a group going to preach the Gospel in an area where it could not readily be heard. Evangelism is a great thing and Pope Benedict emphasized the need for it before he stepped down, noting that we needed to start with Catholics that did not know the Gospel adequately. So I don't think the Catholics here are against that per se. But there is a difference in trying to preach the Gospel and revive someone's faith in a spirit of love of that individual's salvation and in trying to gain numbers in one's own church.

In the video it is stated that there is almost no outreach to the students beyond this particular group - in that area.

It is also stated that there are a number of missionaries that live in that area full time.

But in the OP the great crime being complained about is the crime of non-Catholics reaching these atheists, these people who are opposed to Christianity - though they were baptized as infants.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob, How would you feel if you came out of church one day and had a group from another church telling your fellow Adventist's that they should quit your church and join theirs. I have had this happen and I am sure other Catholics here have had to deal with the same thing? So maybe we get a bit of a chip on our shoulders about groups poaching from the Catholic Church. I don't see that as denying the need to approach those who don't know the Gospel and hopefully bringing the light of Christ to them or even glossing over the fact that there are many Catholics that need to have this happen. I just think that the underlying implication of all this missionary work to predominantly Catholic countries is that the Catholic Church is no better than the pagans and all of our members are just deluded and worshipping a golden calf.