Trinity Facts

[FredVB]

The unity of Yahweh God is from eternity, with God's self-existence. The distinction as three of who we know from revelation as the heavenly Father, Logos the Word who is with God and is God, and the Spirit of God is according to the distinct offices, that have it necessary from eternity. Yahweh God does not share glory with any other, as said in Isaiah 48:11, for one place, and Logos with God is the same Yahweh God, seen as well in Zechariah 12:10 where its prophecy is about Yahweh, whom is yet to be seen pierced, identified as prophecy about Christ in the new testament of the Bible.

I find it interesting that there is debate that springs up here about this. Certainly there are concepts in Christianity that believers take different positions on, a number of them are subject to debates. This subject also may be subject to debate by some, but for those believers trusting what is told in the Bible, I see it very easily dealt with.

 

[CherubRam]

Holy Spirit Baptism

As you can see the disciples practiced a separate baptism for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit baptism was a baptism of fire. So unless you are baptized with fire you are not baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16
John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 4:31
After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

Acts 8:17
Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:19
and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Acts 10:47
“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Acts 11:16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

Acts 19:2
and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Acts 19:6
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

 

[ChetSinger]

Christ "BECAME" the word of God by being God's servant. Therefore, what ever Christ says, that is to be viewed as God speaking through him.

To be precise, I posit that John 1 says the Word of God existed from the beginning, and became Jesus of Nazareth. I've highlighted the parts of John 1 that I want to draw attention to:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.

All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

...

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’&#8221

Can we agree this passage is saying the Word of God existed from the beginning, and became flesh in the form of Jesus?

 

[CherubRam]

To be precise, I posit that John 1 says the Word of God existed from the beginning, and became Jesus of Nazareth. I've highlighted the parts of John 1 that I want to draw attention to:



Can we agree this passage is saying the Word of God existed from the beginning, and became flesh in the form of Jesus?

Although the passage is not translated correctly, it is agreeable that Christ has been alive since before the creation of the world.

In the early 4th century, Lactantius (born 240 A.D. died 320 A.D.) wrote: “He {Jesus} taught that God is one {person} and that He {the Father} alone ought to be adored, nor did He {Jesus} ever call himself God.” Lactantius did not recognize a Trinity. He emphasized that Jesus is an “improperly called god,” and must not be worshipped as God.

When asked, "Which is the most important commandment of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important of all the commandments is, hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is One." (Mark 12:29)

That is what we find throughout the scriptures:

"Beside me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)

"I am God, and there is none else; there is no God beside me." (Isa. 45:5)

"I am God, and there is none else." (Isa. 46:9)

"One God and Father of all, who is above all." (Eph. 4:6)

"Hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord." (Deut. 6.4)

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5)

"There is but one God, the Father, whom made all things, and us by Himself , and one lord Jesus Christ, by whom we are in. (1 Cor. 8:6)

"This is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
This last quotation is Jesus speaking; addressing God in prayer as the one true God, and speaking of himself as separate from that one true God.

 

[stan1953]

Although the passage is not translated correctly, it is agreeable that Christ has been alive since before the creation of the world.

In the early 4th century, Lactantius (born 240 A.D. died 320 A.D.) wrote: “He {Jesus} taught that God is one {person} and that He {the Father} alone ought to be adored, nor did He {Jesus} ever call himself God.” Lactantius did not recognize a Trinity. He emphasized that Jesus is an “improperly called god,” and must not be worshipped as God.

Not what Chetsinger said nor is it what the Bible said.
The WORD was GOD and the WORD became Flesh/Jesus.
Jesus didn't exist from the beginning, the WORD did.

John 1 is properly rendered in all modern English translations, and Lactantius was just another fool that was fooled by Arian.

 

[CherubRam]

Not what he said nor is it what the Bible said.
The WORD was GOD and the WORD became Flesh/Jesus.
Jesus didn't exist from the beginning, the WORD did.

The bible is full of parabolic words. Think about that.

 

[CherubRam]

The unity of Yahweh God is from eternity, with God's self-existence. The distinction as three of who we know from revelation as the heavenly Father, Logos the Word who is with God and is God, and the Spirit of God is according to the distinct offices, that have it necessary from eternity. Yahweh God does not share glory with any other, as said in Isaiah 48:11, for one place, and Logos with God is the same Yahweh God, seen as well in Zechariah 12:10 where its prophecy is about Yahweh, whom is yet to be seen pierced, identified as prophecy about Christ in the new testament of the Bible.

I find it interesting that there is debate that springs up here about this. Certainly there are concepts in Christianity that believers take different positions on, a number of them are subject to debates. This subject also may be subject to debate by some, but for those believers trusting what is told in the Bible, I see it very easily dealt with.

The term "Godhead" is an English variant of the word "godhood" and was first introduced by John Wycliffe (1330-1384 C.E.) in English Bible versions as godhede. The word "Godhead" is a translation of three different Greek words, theion (meaning "divinity, deity", # 2304 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Acts 17:29, theiotēs (meaning "divinity, divine nature", # 2305 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Romans 1:20, and theotēs (meaning "deity", # 2320 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Colossians 2:9.

To translate three different Greek words as one word is deviously incorrect. This is not unlike having three different names for one street on a map (with the real name hidden), so that when a person used it, he wound up lost. Likewise of those who read Bibles with "Godhead" in it, thereby misleading a person that the trinity is "real".

Hence, the need for an accurate Bible, one that renders the Hebrew and Greek words and phrases with a high degree of precision, just as a map that can be counted on to provide exact information.

 

[CherubRam]

The unity of Yahweh God is from eternity, with God's self-existence. The distinction as three of who we know from revelation as the heavenly Father, Logos the Word who is with God and is God, and the Spirit of God is according to the distinct offices, that have it necessary from eternity. Yahweh God does not share glory with any other, as said in Isaiah 48:11, for one place, and Logos with God is the same Yahweh God, seen as well in Zechariah 12:10 where its prophecy is about Yahweh, whom is yet to be seen pierced, identified as prophecy about Christ in the new testament of the Bible.

I find it interesting that there is debate that springs up here about this. Certainly there are concepts in Christianity that believers take different positions on, a number of them are subject to debates. This subject also may be subject to debate by some, but for those believers trusting what is told in the Bible, I see it very easily dealt with.

Zechariah 12:10

New International Version (NIV)


Mourning for the One They Pierced

10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.


Footnotes:
a.Zechariah 12:10 Or the Spirit
b.Zechariah 12:10 Or to

 

[stan1953]

The bible is full of parabolic words. Think about that.

I've already asked you once to explain the use of this word 'parabolic' and you remain silent. Do you mean "hyperbolic"?

Not sure how you can make that assertion if you can't even properly spell the word to convey what you mean?

Bottom line is John 1 is NOT hyperbole.

 

[Der Alte]

The term "Godhead" is an English variant of the word "godhood" and was first introduced by John Wycliffe (1330-1384 C.E.) in English Bible versions as godhede. The word "Godhead" is a translation of three different Greek words, theion (meaning "divinity, deity", # 2304 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Acts 17:29, theiotēs (meaning "divinity, divine nature", # 2305 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Romans 1:20, and theotēs (meaning "deity", # 2320 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Colossians 2:9.

To translate three different Greek words as one word is deviously incorrect. This is not unlike having three different names for one street on a map (with the real name hidden), so that when a person used it, he wound up lost. Likewise of those who read Bibles with "Godhead" in it, thereby misleading a person that the trinity is "real".

Hence, the need for an accurate Bible, one that renders the Hebrew and Greek words and phrases with a high degree of precision, just as a map that can be counted on to provide exact information.

I don't understand how you can claim that "three different words" are translated Godhood when you have quoted the words theion, theiotēs, and theotēs i.e. θεῖος θειότης and θεότης. These are not three different words but a different inflected form of the same root word, θεός/Theos. Even in Strong's, which you quoted from, the definition of each word says "from G2316" which is θεός/Theos.

 

[CherubRam]

I've already asked you once to explain the use of this word 'parabolic' and you remain silent. Do you mean "hyperbolic"?

Not sure how you can make that assertion if you can't even properly spell the word to convey what you mean?

Bottom line is John 1 is NOT hyperbole.

Parables Proverbs Riddles Dreams Visions.

Do you understand what these words below marked in bold means? Do you take the time to understand the verses? The bible often is written in a parables without giving any indication that it is parabolic.

Numbers 12:8
With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

Psalm 49:4
I will turn my ear to a proverb; with the harp I will expound my riddle:

Proverbs 1:6
for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise.

Daniel 5:12
He did this because Daniel, whom the king called Belteshazzar, was found to have a keen mind and knowledge and understanding, and also the ability to interpret dreams, explain riddles and solve difficult problems. Call for Daniel, and he will tell you what the writing means.”

Ezekiel 20:49
Then I said, “Sovereign LORD, they are saying of me, ‘Isn’t he just telling parables?’”

Hosea 12:10
I spoke to the prophets, gave them many visions and told parables through them.”

Matthew 13:3
Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.

Matthew 13:10
The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

Matthew 13:13
This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.

Matthew 13:35
So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”

Psalm 78
2 I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, things from of old...

 

[CherubRam]

I don't understand how you can claim that "three different words" are translated Godhood when you have quoted the words theion, theiotēs, and theotēs i.e. θεῖος θειότης and θεότης. These are not three different words but a different inflected form of the same root word, θεός/Theos. Even in Strong's, which you quoted from, the definition of each word says "from G2316" which is θεός/Theos.

That is like a person saying Allah and Yahuah are the same God.

 

[ChetSinger]

Although the passage is not translated correctly, it is agreeable that Christ has been alive since before the creation of the world.

If we don't agree on a common text I think this conversation will soon become stymied. But maybe not. For clarity's sake would you agree that:

The Word of God existed from the beginning (John 1:2)?
The Word of God became flesh in the form of Jesus (John 1:14)?

If yes, then that's cool. If not, why not?

In the early 4th century, Lactantius (born 240 A.D. died 320 A.D.) wrote: “He {Jesus} taught that God is one {person} and that He {the Father} alone ought to be adored, nor did He {Jesus} ever call himself God.” Lactantius did not recognize a Trinity. He emphasized that Jesus is an “improperly called god,” and must not be worshipped as God.

Because Christianity had already been around for more than 200 years prior to Lactantius, any unorthodox opinion he expressed doesn't carry much weight with me.

 

[stan1953]

Do you understand what these words below marked in bold means? Do you take the time to understand the verses? The bible often is written in a parables without giving any indication that it is parabolic.

Well I've never seen that word used in that connotation before which is why I asked you way back when you first used it. Bottom line is John 1:1 is not that either. It is factual, NOT parabolic. You could has properly said they were parabola in nature...which would have been much more accurate.


You should understand that although Jesus did speak in parables a lot, John 1:1 is not Jesus speaking, it is the author of John 1:1, who did NOT speak in parables.

 

[CherubRam]

If we don't agree on a common text I think this conversation will soon become stymied. But maybe not. For clarity's sake would you agree that:

The Word of God existed from the beginning (John 1:2)?
The Word of God became flesh in the form of Jesus (John 1:14)?

If yes, then that's cool. If not, why not?


Because Christianity had already been around for more than 200 years prior to Lactantius, any unorthodox opinion he expressed doesn't carry much weight with me.

"The Word" is a name title for the Messiah Yahshua.

 

[CherubRam]

Well I've never seen that word used in that connotation before which is why I asked you way back when you first used it. Bottom line is John 1:1 is not that either. It is factual, NOT parabolic. You could has properly said they were parabola in nature...which would have been much more accurate.


You should understand that although Jesus did speak in parables a lot, John 1:1 is not Jesus speaking, it is the author of John 1:1, who did NOT speak in parables.

If a person repeats a prophets parable, then they are speaking a parable. Or speaking of a parable.

 

[stan1953]

If a person repeats a prophets parable, then they are speaking a parable. Or speaking of a parable.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[stan1953]

"The Word" is a name title for the Messiah Yahshua.

The WORD is God, and He became flesh/incarnate IN Jesus.

 

[CherubRam]

The WORD is God, and He became flesh/incarnate IN Jesus.

In Greek all GODS are GOD. To translate into English a person must determine if the article "a" needs to be used, and also is the word being used should be upper or lower case. And the Word was a god.

 

[ChetSinger]

"The Word" is a name title for the Messiah Yahshua.

I'm finding it frustrating to converse with you because if I ask what I think is a simple yes/no question, your response leaves me unclear whether you're agreeing with me or not. Could you give my last post one more try, because I'm trying to find out if we have common ground regarding John 1:2 and John 1:14?

In the meantime, I think I'm cool with you that "the word" is a name title for Jesus. After all, we see it in the Revelation, too.