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too much of Mt 10 overlaps with Mt 24 for that, Rat. The language is the same; it is already occurring.
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Hmm, I don't think so.too much of Mt 10 overlaps with Mt 24 for that, Rat. The language is the same; it is already occurring.
I don't see any of the verses you referenced as being fulfilled in the past. They are future.re 10:
v17
v18
v19
v20
v21
v22
v23?
v34
v42
In addition you have to define terms of v3. They are raised in 1st century Judaism. It had a standard view of "this" age vs "Messiahs" age. Their question is: when will this age end, and how will yours start? They are not consciously asking questions about X000 years in the future and he doesn't answer like he is.
In a sense, you are right. It is the great time of distress, but you have only hinted that you mean that is distant future. In which case direct instructions to them would be of no use, and no one interjects: 'why are you talking to us as though we would be there?' They would be there!
Perhaps if you wrote out a bit more, more would fall into place.
Should I be surprised that my post does not make things fall into place for you?You're not following about MT 10. It is the same language. They were already experiencing those things.
The line about 'fire on the earth' is about the DofJ in another context.
Do you not realize they were raised in Judaism and it has certain starting conceptions? The material was not written in Cleveland in 1990.
"Your coming" is wide open, and he says in v29 it is right after the DofJ.
"The end of the age" is open to several things in Judaism, because they, Josephus and Caiaphas (Jn 11, 18) knew of the risks the city was running at the end of the 490 years.
The rational approach to their questions is unified, not separated as you have done.
The rational approach to their questions is unified, not separated as you have done.
The scripture that I referenced speak for themselves and need no commentary from me and certainly no commentary from you.Your posts don't say much about the actual passages. You don't seem interested in doing that.
The following is a verse by verse commentary on Matthew 24, showing it's direct application to, and fulfillment in, the 1st century...
While the carnal temptation is to place the fulfillment of these things into OUR time, We need look no furthur than the apostles own generation for the fulfillment of "all these things".
So life will just go on and on leading where? Will Christianity eventually spread and God will convert the entire planet someday?
Do you realize that if we just move forward 30 years, Islam will dominate Europe just by numbers alone and they will all be forced to bow down to Allah. How would you like your little girl stolen from school and forced to convert from fear of rape and death???
A culture can sustain itself if it procreates at two children per family. Most western countries are under that amount and China as well, yet Muslims have lots of kids.
N,o life cannot go on and on with this idea that Christianity will encompass the world and then we'll all get along in peace, prosperity, with no more poverty, hate, etc. You have to be naïve and delusional in thinking that.
There is a spiritual war going on.
If you only look at how morality has been corrupted in this country in the last 50 years, you will see the downward spiral that we are in.
1962 Prayer removed from schools
1963 Kennedy is shot, Johnson starts the welfare system which is what our founding fathers warned us about
1967 Drug/hippie/free love revolution
1974 Abortion legalized and homosexuals begin their agenda (before that it was considered mental disorder)
Moving forward a few decades and we see that teenage pregnancy, suicide, divorce has doubled and quadrupled in some areas. Look at the kids and what they are doing. And soon what ... a homosexual president too? The foul language and trash in movies is much different than 50 years ago, where we would consider the word damn as being taboo.
Do you seriously think the world is getting better? Our country is done, we have 17+ trillion debt that is impossible to pay back! What do think Christians can do with that debt? Pray hard ... good luck with that!
The Middle East has unraveled and governments overturned:
12/18/2010 Tunisia revolt and government overturned
In the mean time on 1/12/2011 Haiti earthquake kills 300,000!
1/25/2011 Egypt revolt and still ongoing troubles
1/27/2011 Yemen revolt ...
2/15/2011 Libya revolt...
In the mean time on 3/11/2011 Japan earthquake. tsunami and nuclear power plant kills over 18,000, and nuclear waste is still leaking and reactors unstable.
3/15/2011 Syria revolt and still civil war is ongoing
In the mean time Iran is becoming nuke ready.
Take your heads out of the sand, get ready for WWIII and the collapse of the dollar -- probably within a year. Deny that any of this is real and continue with your Amillenialist view ... you'll wake up when you find yourselves in the Great Tribulation period, I'm confident of that.
LOl, of course not, being Jews they were hindu.OK, so back to what it means. Do you think the disciples were raised in Judaism?
That is just wrong!Luke and Matthew record to completely separate speeches given to different Audiences at different times. This is where people on both sides stumble.
[What's going on with the letter G? It seems to mean "be"]
The irrationality being addressed is that the subject of Israel's destruction in 70 has been simmering since ch 21's parable of the tenants. It is in 22's parable of the wedding invites, and was just mentioned a few verses before their questions in 23. Why on earth Jesus would fly off to the distant future about all these things he said were just about to happen is irrational. In Judaism, you were taught there were two ages: "this" vs "Messiahs." Their question is that: when does this one end and Messiah's begin. They knew the temple, the city, the old covenant, the Law were all due to end. Messiah's age had a new covenant and the Spirit would be poured out in it, and the confusion about Abraham's promises would be cleared up.
To fly off gives me the impression of futurism, literalism and D'ism that they find sound bytes in the Bible but don't really let it speak for itself. The more they do that, the less credible they are.
As I have mentioned in a thousand posts, Mt 24A (to v29) is set in 1st century Judea. We know this from the parallels to Mt 10, from the conditions addressed in the text, etc. The meaning of the 'end of the age' to someone raised in Judaism at that time needs to be addressed. It was understood in Judaism that the 490 years of Dan 9 were ending, even if the last week was irregular; for ex., Heb 9, Josephus in JW, Caiaphas in Jn 11.
'Gaia' often means just the land of Israel in the gospels, not the whole world.
Paul said twice that the whole world had been informed of the gospel; Col 1, I Tim 3.
You might check Gideon's chart on Dan 9 if you haven't ever heard this rendering. also the Zens summary of the 'time of unsurpassed trouble.' It is relative to Israel; he meant the experience would be worse than 586 BC.
Mt24B is then global, or universal--the final day of God's judgement. We must relate the two. Their understanding was that the final day would be 'right after' the DofJ. Most of the rest of Mt24B conveys this, but allows for delay expressly and in the parable of the attentive servants. 2 Pet 3 explains the delay in exactly the same way.
NT eschatology is therefore either near-future and Judean OR distant-future and universal. Meaning: there are no Judean details necessary for the final day of judgement. You will not find them in Rom 2, 8, I Cor 15, Heb 9, 2 Pet 3. And also meaning, we now know it is distant future by the simple fact that time has gone on.
BW documents that within 100 years early church fathers tried to assimilate a distant future return by revisiting OT prophecy and the Rev and coming up with the futurist system with Judean-based details in that distant future. He does good work, and makes it clear it is the ECFs position. I don't think you can find it in the NT.
The major church historian Latourrette writes that Mt24 itself reflects an unresolved position as though finalized after the DofJ when the world did not end. But of course we know that the original instructions were given during Jesus' final week of ministry and have to have that 'feel' to them.
Luke's material, mostly transcribed from Paul, is so intent on protecting Paul from connection to rebel forces in Judea and from Galileans that his several references to the DofJ seem to be unaware that a distant future would be an allowance. It is all resolved at the DofJ for him. There are other passages of Paul's as you may know that sound like the end of the world is quite soon.