Let's talk about fat.

[mkgal1]

Sugar...is my arch enemy. I love sweet stuff so much.

This web site has some great recipes that I think help with that (once your taste buds have acclimated):

Recipe Index - I Breathe... I'm Hungry...

 

[seeingeyes]

I did not read the article but I am fully on board with not including obesity as an addiction. There are a lot of obese people who actually have a very healthy diet, and there are very thin people who survive on potato chips and ice cream. Obesity itself is not the indicator of why people eat certain things and not others. If food addiction is going to be added to the DSM, I believe they will have to find different diagnostic criteria from obesity.

It seems that the deciding factor was that including it would necessitate labeling a very large segment of western society as having a mental illness. (What are we up to in the U.S.? One third are obese?)

I think they made the right call.

 

[ValleyGal]

It seems that the deciding factor was that including it would necessitate labeling a very large segment of western society as having a mental illness. (What are we up to in the U.S.? One third are obese?)

I think they made the right call.

It would also have a huge implication on the economy. If a third of the population is labelled with a mental illness, that would mean anyone who is obese could go on social service disability. It would impact pharmaceutical companies - people would expect it to be managed by psych meds. It would affect insurance companies, health insurance costs would go through the roof for those who are healthy weight and still working, etc....not to mention that not all obese people are addicted to food. Tbh, I'm not even sure why it was on the table to start with. I can see certain food addictions, yes. But not food in general, without obesity as part of the diagnostic criteria.

 

[Inkachu]

And also, whenever I see this thread title, I start singing in my head "let's talk about, fat, baby, let's talk about you and me ..." Because Thursday.

Me three!!

I did not read the article but I am fully on board with not including obesity as an addiction. There are a lot of obese people who actually have a very healthy diet, and there are very thin people who survive on potato chips and ice cream. Obesity itself is not the indicator of why people eat certain things and not others. If food addiction is going to be added to the DSM, I believe they will have to find different diagnostic criteria from obesity.

Agreed.

I've seen many people who were obese and simply decided to change their dietary habits lose vast amounts of weight with relatively little effort (sure, a craving here and there, but they just made up their mind and went for it). But other people who suffer from genuine compulsive eating or food addiction are a whole other story. Food for them is literally like a drug, and it takes a lot more effort and work to change their habits. They can't just "decide" to overhaul their entire diet and have it work on the first try. Their brains are chemically addicted to the foods they eat, and they will go through actual, physical symptoms of withdrawal (headaches, fatigue, moodiness, anxiety, depression).

I encourage anyone who wants to know more to watch some of the really awesome recent documentaries on food and the food industry in America. Some great ones are "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead", "Food, Inc", and "Forks Over Knives". Our current food industry is designed to make us addicted to certain foods and completely screw up our natural responses. The more I learn, the more inspired I am to get away from all processed foods and start a more plant-based, whole foods diet, preferably with local products rather than big-industry, factory-created items.

I'm curious then, since I don't know a lot about this kind of stuff, wouldn't the juice be technically better, since it has "natural" sugar vs. the soda that has not only chemicals that can damage our system, but added sugar?

Sugar is one of my last food battles, too. I've beaten my addiction to soda and some other things, but sugar - especially CHOCOLATE - is still a struggle for me. I've traditionally allowed myself a small portion of chocolate per day. But the more I read about processed sugar... the more I realize that I don't just enjoy chocolate, I am seriously, truly addicted to it. As in, I get antsy, fidgety, and irritable if I don't have it. Today I am attempting to forego sweets altogether; no chocolate, no nothing. Our bodies weren't created to receive a constant influx of sugar (which is now in everything from fruit juice to ketchup to salad dressing); sugar should be a now-and-then treat and nothing more.

I'm also planning to do a big grocery trip this weekend and stock up on some new whole food, vegetarian meal ideas. My whole family are meat lovers, and while I don't plan to go completely vegan or anything, I really want to cut back on the meat and dairy that we consume. Drastically.

Wow, this thread is going in all kinds of directions now lol.

 

[Annessa3]

"let's talk about fat"

let's instead talk about being non-judgemental.

 

[seeingeyes]

"let's talk about fat"

let's instead talk about being non-judgemental.

Ok.

Is it judgmental to not find everyone on earth physically sexually attractive?

 

[Inkachu]

"let's talk about fat"

let's instead talk about being non-judgemental.

But then, what would we argue about??

 

[akmom]

I don't believe that self-reporting is unreliable because people are liars, I believe it's unreliable because we don't really remember what we aren't paying attention to.

Hahaha, people on a diet DO pay attention to what they eat. They don't grab a mouthful of their kids' macaroni or a handful of nuts. That's absurd. A person who purposefully eats a 1,200 calorie diet will definitely get that pretty close to that amount. You underestimate people!

If I asked someone how many times they touched their own face today, and they answered "five or six", but my creepy hidden cameras revealed that they had touched their own face 42 times, it wouldn't be because they were lying.

Yeah, because no one is aware of touching their face. But work with raw egg or meat in the kitchen, and I'll bet none of them touch their face, because they have a reason not to and are consciously aware of it!

Anyone who stops eating today will lose body fat (among other things).

Sorry, but this is such a dumb observation. Obviously if you just quit eating you will slowly starve to death. But if you simply spread your calories more evenly throughout the day, you'll also lose weight, and faster. A lot of people have gained weight by eating 900 calories at dinner only, and lost weight by eating 1,200 calories throughout the day. The days of telling people to "stop eating" have come and gone. Get over it.

 

[Annessa3]

Is it judgmental to not find everyone on earth physically sexually attractive?

you know what, this is so far from my reality that I can't even answer it.
I just don't look at people and say 'yes/no physically sexually attractive'

sexually attractive was just not a way I looked at anyone when I was married, except my husband. Aesthetically pleasing to my eye is almost limited to clean, covered. And I even smiled at the people who couldn't be clean.

 

[seeingeyes]

Is it judgmental to not find everyone on earth physically sexually attractive?

you know what, this is so far from my reality that I can't even answer it.
I just don't look at people and say 'yes/no physically sexually attractive'

sexually attractive was just not a way I looked at anyone when I was married, except my husband. Aesthetically pleasing to my eye is almost limited to clean, covered. And I even smiled at the people who couldn't be clean.

This thread is about physical sexual attraction between spouses, specifically involving controllable (with varying difficulty) aspects such as body fat.

If you see only your husband as physically sexually attractive, are you "judging" everyone else on earth as not physically sexually attractive?

If not, then judgmentalism is off topic for this thread.

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

Thanks for all the resourceful websites and answers...I will go check them out. I recently bought coconut palm sugar so I'm not using as much white sugar.

 

[seeingeyes]

Sorry, but this is such a dumb observation. Obviously if you just quit eating you will slowly starve to death. But if you simply spread your calories more evenly throughout the day, you'll also lose weight, and faster. A lot of people have gained weight by eating 900 calories at dinner only, and lost weight by eating 1,200 calories throughout the day. The days of telling people to "stop eating" have come and gone. Get over it.

I call bollocks on anyone over the age of 3 eating 900 calories a day and gaining weight. That is sheer deluded fantasy. Where does the fat come from? Osmosis? Is it floating around in the air? Perhaps holding one's breath would be a better solution.

 

[mkgal1]

I call bollocks on anyone over the age of 3 eating 900 calories a day and gaining weight. That is sheer deluded fantasy. Where does the fat come from? Osmosis? Is it floating around in the air? Perhaps holding one's breath would be a better solution.

So.....because you haven't (personally) experienced this.....it's "sheer deluded fantasy"?

Our bodies have an amazing ability of protecting themselves. I'm not a nutritionist (or even pretending to be one), but battling this (for years with the "try harder.....eat less....work out obsessively program) with no success----I had to dig deeper (once my daughter was older, and I had the time.....as it's very time consuming).

This is often the effects of a reduced caloric intake.......and how weight gain occurs.

An extreme low calorie diet refers to dietary regimens that are limited to as little as 500 to 800 calories a day. They are generally geared toward weight loss. These programs are sometimes prescribed by a doctor when morbid obesity poses extreme health risks. However, others turn to this regimen to starve themselves into weight loss. This of course poses many dangers, including those mentioned below.

Decreased Metabolic Rate
Significantly decreasing caloric intake is counterproductive. The body is designed to burn calories for fuel, and severely restricting calories prevents your body from burning body fat efficiently. As a result, weight loss slows down. Your body goes into starvation mode. Instead of burning the stores of body fat, it works to protect them. Subsequently, your lean muscle is used for energy. Loss of muscle equals a lowered ability to burn calories and a lower metabolic rate. In fact, many gain weight when eating less and wonder why.

Fatigue
Intense physical exhaustion frequently occurs as a result of starvation. When the body is starving, it lacks vital nutrients and glucose. Glucose is the body's primary fuel source attained by eating proper amounts of carbohydrates. Fatigue can interfere with normal daily function. It can also dampen physical exercise efforts, which many dieters participate in. Fatigue also may lead to body aches, mood swings, and sleepiness, all of which may make it difficult to tend to work responsibilities and social activities.

Also.....our bodies will often release more cortisol when the body is stressed. That also causes the body to store more fat & lose more muscle. Excess cortisol can also cause Cushings disease----which can be fatal.

Higher and more prolonged levels of circulating cortisol (like those associated with chronic stress) have been shown to have negative effects, such as:*
Impaired cognitive performance
Dampened thyroid function
Blood sugar imbalances, such as hyperglycemia
Decreased bone density
Sleep disruption
Decreased muscle mass
Elevated blood pressure
Lowered immune function
Slow wound healing
Increased abdominal fat, which has a stronger correlation to certain health problems than fat deposited in other areas of the body. Some of the health problems associated with increased stomach fat are heart attacks, strokes, higher levels of “bad” cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of “good” cholesterol (HDL), which can lead to other health problems.*~Cortisol and Adrenal Function

 

[seeingeyes]

So.....because you haven't (personally) experienced this.....it's "sheer deluded fantasy"?

Our bodies have an amazing ability of protecting themselves. I'm not a nutritionist (or even pretending to be one), but battling this (for years with the "try harder.....eat less....work out obsessively program) with no success----I had to dig deeper (once my daughter was older, and I had the time.....as it's very time consuming).

This is often the effects of a reduced caloric intake.......and how weight gain occurs.



Also.....our bodies will often release more cortisol when the body is stressed. That also causes the body to store more fat & lose more muscle. Excess cortisol can also cause Cushings disease----which can be fatal.

It's not about my personal experience, it's about physics.

If there are magical fat people who create energy out of nothing and store it as fat, that would be the discovery of the millenium. Think of it. We could learn how to harvest said energy, and pay these magical folks a stipend to collect from them. Boom. Obesity epidemic over. Oil dependence over. Climate change stopped in it's tracks overnight.

 

[seeingeyes]

Oh! And we could learn to isolate the gene responsible for this and deliver this trait to others. End famine. End world hunger. End starvation entirely. Food itself would become a thing of the past!

 

[mkgal1]

It's not about my personal experience, it's about physics.

Actually......biology....not physics.

If there are magical fat people who create energy out of nothing and store it as fat, that would be the discovery of the millenium. Think of it. We could learn how to harvest said energy, and pay these magical folks a stipend to collect from them. Boom. Obesity epidemic over. Oil dependence over. Climate change stopped in it's tracks overnight.

I think you should cut back on the snark (first of all).

It's not "creating energy out of nothing"........we're talking about people that do eat *something* (just a greatly reduced amount----because of people like you that suggest that's what they *ought* to do. If it's not "working"....then, they need to try harder). That doesn't work (and it wreaks havoc on our body systems----sometimes permanently). It's bad information.

You are obviously not bringing this up to learn.....but instead (it seems) to unleash your (unusual) disdain towards people that have this struggle.

Sometimes people can only empathize when they've personally lived through something. That's too bad.

 

[mkgal1]

Oh! And we could learn to isolate the gene responsible for this and deliver this trait to others. End famine. End world hunger. End starvation entirely. Food itself would become a thing of the past!

Really? Just stop.

 

[seeingeyes]

Actually......biology....not physics.



I think you should cut back on the snark (first of all).

It's not "creating energy out of nothing"........we're talking about people that do eat *something* (just a greatly reduced amount----because of people like you that suggest that's what they *ought* to do. If it's not "working"....then, they need to try harder). That doesn't work (and it wreaks havoc on our body systems----sometimes permanently). It's bad information.

You are obviously not bringing this up to learn.....but instead (it seems) to unleash your (unusual) disdain towards people that have this struggle.

Sometimes people can only empathize when they've personally lived through something. That's too bad.

This isn't about disdain at all. I just don't believe it. I don't believe it's even possible.

If anyone can show me a case of an adult person over 3 1/2 feet tall who, while eating a diet of 900 calories a day as strictly monitored by an independent third party, gained weight, I'll not only eat my words, but I'll write a scathing letter to my representatives demanding new research.

 

[mkgal1]

Many people do not realize that the body uses calories simply through digesting and processing food. This is described as the thermic effect of food. The simple act of eating less causes lower energy output.

Once the body senses a loss of body fat, it will begin to lower thyroid levels and diminish nervous system output in an effort to stop the weight loss. Once further calorie cuts are made and cardio is increased, fat loss will resume again, and the body further lowers thyroid levels and nervous system output. It also lowers testosterone levels and raises cortisol levels, both of which eventually lead to muscle loss. Since muscle is a metabolically active tissue—it consumes calories simply to exist—the metabolism will drop even further.

Let me run you though a familiar scenario. A hypothetical male bodybuilder is prepping for an upcoming show. He has put on a bit of fat in the offseason, so being ready on time is going to be difficult. But he is a can-do person, a guy who does whatever it takes.

Time is of the essence, so our competitor begins with aggressive cuts to his diet. He was maintaining his body weight with 3,000 calories per day in the offseason, so he begins by cutting to 1,600 calories and doing an hour of cardio each day. Boom: He loses several pounds in the first few weeks.

A few more weeks pass, and his fat loss stalls. Our competitor, who is already eating very little, decides to cut out nearly all carbs while lowering his fat intake to 20-30 g per day.


This gets things moving again—but not nearly as quickly as before. After another few weeks, fat loss stops again. Since he can't eat much less, our competitor has no choice. He adds another hour of cardio per day.

Fat loss barely crawls along for the next few weeks before it inevitably stops altogether. Our competitor is exhausted, has no energy to train, is eating zero carbs and little fat, and doing 2-3 hours of cardio per day. But the scale does not budge. He still needs to lose more fat, but he is out of luck. His metabolism stalled. His body won't surrender any more fat.

This is exactly the type of situation that leads to a huge metabolic slowdown and makes it nearly impossible to lose any fat.~http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/metabolism-massacre-7-ways-to-avoid-undermining-fat-loss.html

What CG's mom's doctor suggested to her is probably the best life-long plan (which was to *increase* the amount of food she was eating---with a healthful composition of quality foods). Even that isn't typically the whole solution (like others have brought up.....there can be other obstacles as well).

 

[mkgal1]

I'm not going to try to convince you, Seeing Eyes. If you want to read up on it.....I do think this book packs in a lot of information and it's only $2.99 (you can read it on your browser).

THE CALORIE MYTH is the simplification and application of more than 1,300 academic studies. The supporting scientific literature and scientific documentation is included to back up what Bailor writes.